The First Shot

[Jack Nessan]

It is not unreasonable to dismiss the 75% (if that is the actual number) when they are demonstrably wrong. Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot, which is a recognized phenomenon. There were many earwitnesses who did not seem no recognize the sound of the first shot. If those same people heard a double sound from the final shot, they could easily be fooled into believing the last two shots were close together. JBC's visible reaction at Z164, the simultaneous raising of the arms of JFK and JBC at Z226, and the obvious head explosion at Z313 give us a good idea as to the spacing of the shots. What we don't know is how quickly JBC reacted to the first shot by looking over his right shoulder. Dale Myers has hypothesized a shot as late as Z160. My own belief is the first shot was fired at Z147-148 followed by a noticeable camera jiggle at Z155. Tom Graves believes it was fired about a half second before Zapruder resumed filming. Without definitive proof, there is no way to say who is right, but under two of those scenarios, the first two shots would have been closer together while under the Graves scenario, they would have been almost evenly spaced, with the last two shots coming only marginally closer together than the first two.

The physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle.

What physical evidence? Prove there were three shots

 Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot
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Stumbling around you the way you do, you probably don't even realize your right. You are stating the three shot witnesses, 75% of them, were really two shot witnesses who mistook the double sounds from a single shot, the last shot, as two shots, making a total of three shots. Finally, even you realize how ridiculous the early missed shot is.

 

[Jarrett Smith]

It is not unreasonable to dismiss the 75% (if that is the actual number) when they are demonstrably wrong. Many of that 75% thought the last two shots came right on top of each other which is not possible with a bolt action rifle and all the physical evidence indicates all three shots were fired by Oswald's bolt action rifle. Large numbers of people can be fooled by the same phenomenon. We can only speculate why a large number of people got the spacing wrong because we don't know what they actually heard. I suspect many of those people heard two sounds from the final shot, which is a recognized phenomenon. There were many earwitnesses who did not seem no recognize the sound of the first shot. If those same people heard a double sound from the final shot, they could easily be fooled into believing the last two shots were close together. JBC's visible reaction at Z164, the simultaneous raising of the arms of JFK and JBC at Z226, and the obvious head explosion at Z313 give us a good idea as to the spacing of the shots. What we don't know is how quickly JBC reacted to the first shot by looking over his right shoulder. Dale Myers has hypothesized a shot as late as Z160. My own belief is the first shot was fired at Z147-148 followed by a noticeable camera jiggle at Z155. Tom Graves believes it was fired about a half second before Zapruder resumed filming. Without definitive proof, there is no way to say who is right, but under two of those scenarios, the first two shots would have been closer together while under the Graves scenario, they would have been almost evenly spaced, with the last two shots coming only marginally closer together than the first two.

Sam Kinney's description of the shots.

[John Corbett]

Witnesses have given us numerous versions of what happened but there is only one right version and Kinney's ain't it.

[Jack Nessan]

Witnesses have given us numerous versions of what happened but there is only one right version and Kinney's ain't it.

That is just wrong.

SA Sam Kinney
11/22/63
I was driving SS 679-X, follow-up. As we turned off Main Street (left) about 4 minutes from our destination of Trade Mart. The first shot was fired as we were going into an underpass. The first shot was fired, I glanced from the taillight of SS 100-X, at the President and it appeared that he had been shot because he slumped to the left. Immediately he sat up again.* At this time the second shot was fired and I observed hair flying from the right side of his head. With this, simultaneously with the President's car, we stepped on the gas. I released the siren at that time. I did hear three shots but do not recall which shots were those that hit the President.
*At this time Clint Hill jumped off and ran to the President's car, jumped on the back, and laid out across the trunk in a prone position where he rode the entire trip to the hospital.

Notice the date 11/22/63. The statement was made immediately after the assassination. SA Kinney clearly stated shot 1 JFK reacts by slumping to the left, shot two is the head shot. States shot two Clint Hill is running to JFK’s limousine. Exactly what is viewed in the Zapruder Film. Exactly, and without any strange interpretations of Gov Connally’s movements and some supposed fictional shot that no one heard and which there is no evidence that it ever happened and you are unable to pinpoint as to when it took place.

Aren't you the guy who always claims the Zapruder Film is the official record. It could not be any clearer when SA Kinney narrates the assassination and uses the actions of SA Clint Hill as viewed on a number of peoples films of Hill jumping on the car to prove it

Maybe it is time to wake up and come to reality, JFK was struck by the first shot. Then SA Kinney clearly states the second shot was the headshot, and at which point in time Clint Hill jumps on the back of the car. Clint Hill also stated there were only two shots.

Finally, another shot is just thrown in with no correlation to the rest of the statement. Completely outside of what SA Kinney thinks the shot sequence is that he has just witnessed. An example of medias Influence, according to the WC and HSCA conclusions and their stated belief that due to the medias reporting, the witnesses inflated the number of shots.

This whole nonsense that the witnesses did not know what was going on is just pure crap because you can’t face the reality the early missed shot is completely wrong. Dreamt up by a group of make believe experts with no real grasp of what had taken place. They also ignored what all the witnesses stated and look how stupid it makes them look.

[Dan O'meara]

You still don't get it and you never will. Witness estimates regarding time frames don't establish anything because they are nothing more than guesses. You are so pitifully stupid that you think every word of testimony the WC heard over the course of the investigation should have been included in the report whether it had any relevance or not in establishing who killed JFK. What the hell difference does it make what time BRW joined Norman and Jarman. The only thing that mattered was that all three were directly below Oswald as he was firing the shots that killed JFK. That provided further evidence that the 6th floor sniper's nest was the location of the assassin.

The testimony of all the witnesses was made available the 26 volumes for those who wanted to take a deeper dive, but it wasn't necessary to put verbatim testimony in the report to explain how the WC arrived at their conclusions.

You still don't get it and you never will. Witness estimates regarding time frames don't establish anything because they are nothing more than guesses.

As usual, the moment you try to engage with this subject you end up looking buffoonish. Your lack of knowledge regarding the basics of this case is ridiculous.
Norman states that he and Junior Jarman decided to go up to the 5th floor after hearing that the motorcade was on Main Street:

MR. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went beck in the building, James Jarman and I.

The motorcade joins Main Street at Harwood Street and it is a matter of a few minutes before the motorcade reaches Dealey Plaza. When we look at the transcripts of the police radio transmissions we find that the earliest mention of Main Street is around 12:22pm.
This is not a guess.
Norman timestamps their decision to go up to the 5th floor with his reference to the motorcade being on Main Street.

You are so pitifully stupid that you think every word of testimony the WC heard over the course of the investigation should have been included in the report

It would be kind to call this statement 'moronic'.
'Devious' would be a better description.
The point I'm making, as I'm sure you are aware, is that your precious Warren Commission Sham left specifically left out any testimony or statement that ,contradicted the false narrative they created with the insertion of Givens' false account of going back up to the 6th floor and seeing Oswald. This is beyond dispute which is why you have to resort to such crass misrepresentations. You are incapable of providing any kind of rational excuse for the WC's actions. You have to resort to lies and misrepresentations instead. It's really weak-minded.

What the hell difference does it make what time BRW joined Norman and Jarman

You really do need to be spoon fed, don't you?
If BRW didn't go down to the 5th floor until 12:25pm or later, it leaves no time for Oswald to assemble the rifle in the SN as your precious WC Sham would like everyone to believe.
The problem the Sham faced was that there is no time for Oswald to assemble the rifle before BRW was on the 6th floor and not time for him to assemble the rifle after BRW has left the 6th floor. They had to create a false narrative to give Oswald time to do this before BRW was in position.
So they invented the nonsense about Givens going back up to the 6th floor and seeing Oswald near the southeast corner. The importance of this lie was having Oswald refusing to go down to the first floor. This gave him time to prepare the SN and assemble his rifle.
But the testimony and statements of Williams, Givens, Lovelady, Arce and Piper told a very different story - Oswald was looking to get down to the first floor but Givens refused to stop and let him on the elevator. So Oswald called down to them to send the elevator back up to him so he could come down. Whether he got the elevator or not is unknown but what we do know is that he did indeed get down to the first floor, as his interaction with Piper proved.
In reality, Oswald was down on the first floor around 12:00 noon, approximately the same time BRW was arriving at the 6th floor where he would stay until at least 12:25pm.

[Jack Nessan]

You still don't get it and you never will. Witness estimates regarding time frames don't establish anything because they are nothing more than guesses.

As usual, the moment you try to engage with this subject you end up looking buffoonish. Your lack of knowledge regarding the basics of this case is ridiculous.
Norman states that he and Junior Jarman decided to go up to the 5th floor after hearing that the motorcade was on Main Street:

MR. NORMAN. Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went beck in the building, James Jarman and I.

The motorcade joins Main Street at Harwood Street and it is a matter of a few minutes before the motorcade reaches Dealey Plaza. When we look at the transcripts of the police radio transmissions we find that the earliest mention of Main Street is around 12:22pm.
This is not a guess.
Norman timestamps their decision to go up to the 5th floor with his reference to the motorcade being on Main Street.

You are so pitifully stupid that you think every word of testimony the WC heard over the course of the investigation should have been included in the report

It would be kind to call this statement 'moronic'.
'Devious' would be a better description.
The point I'm making, as I'm sure you are aware, is that your precious Warren Commission Sham left specifically left out any testimony or statement that ,contradicted the false narrative they created with the insertion of Givens' false account of going back up to the 6th floor and seeing Oswald. This is beyond dispute which is why you have to resort to such crass misrepresentations. You are incapable of providing any kind of rational excuse for the WC's actions. You have to resort to lies and misrepresentations instead. It's really weak-minded.

What the hell difference does it make what time BRW joined Norman and Jarman

You really do need to be spoon fed, don't you?
If BRW didn't go down to the 5th floor until 12:25pm or later, it leaves no time for Oswald to assemble the rifle in the SN as your precious WC Sham would like everyone to believe.
The problem the Sham faced was that there is no time for Oswald to assemble the rifle before BRW was on the 6th floor and not time for him to assemble the rifle after BRW has left the 6th floor. They had to create a false narrative to give Oswald time to do this before BRW was in position.
So they invented the nonsense about Givens going back up to the 6th floor and seeing Oswald near the southeast corner. The importance of this lie was having Oswald refusing to go down to the first floor. This gave him time to prepare the SN and assemble his rifle.
But the testimony and statements of Williams, Givens, Lovelady, Arce and Piper told a very different story - Oswald was looking to get down to the first floor but Givens refused to stop and let him on the elevator. So Oswald called down to them to send the elevator back up to him so he could come down. Whether he got the elevator or not is unknown but what we do know is that he did indeed get down to the first floor, as his interaction with Piper proved.
In reality, Oswald was down on the first floor around 12:00 noon, approximately the same time BRW was arriving at the 6th floor where he would stay until at least 12:25pm.

This whole train of thought is predicated on the assumption the rifle was disassembled in the first place and/or LHO had no opportunity to assemble the rifle on a different floor between the hours of 8:00 to 12:30.

[Zeon Mason]

This whole train of thought is predicated on the assumption the rifle was disassembled in the first place and/or LHO had no opportunity to assemble the rifle on a different floor between the hours of 8:00 to 12:30.

It’s the arrangement of those 3 boxes that had to be completed before the Bronson film starts at 12:25 which is problem. It’s going to be really close if BRW did not leave that window until 12:23 cause the shooter has to wait for BRW to walk abut 160 ft and get on the elevator and operate it before the shooter could be confident BRW was gone from the floor.

The shooter has to walk 100 ft and squeeze thru narrow opening of the box wall and then he has to select which boxes  which he wants to use, slide 2 of them in the angle he desired , stack the 3rd box on the window ledge and he has to LOWER the window from its full half open when Rowland saw the black man “hanging out” the window. To the 15.5 in height it was in the Bronson film.

All of this moving of the 3 boxes in place and lowering the window was occurring AFTER Norman was at his 5th floor window from 12:23 till the 12:30 shooting started. Should not Norman heard something?