The First Shot

[John Corbett]

The Litwin article is well done.  Bugliosi’s rebuttal of Lattimer are hard to dismiss. But the real problem is with a shot through JFK at z223-224. It strains credulity to suggest that JFK could have gone from smiling and waving at the time he was hit to a position and expression 200 ms or less later of this:


That may have been another reason Bugliosi wasn’t persuaded by the Lattimer theory.

All of your beliefs strain credulity.

[Andrew Mason]

All of your beliefs strain credulity.

I am not suggesting that Bugliosi was right in concluding that JFK was struck around z210. I was just suggesting that his comments about Lattimer’s theory are persuasive.  So it is Bugliosi’s reasoning that JFK was hit around z210 which appears to strain credulity for you. 

[John Corbett]

I am not suggesting that Bugliosi was right in concluding that JFK was struck around z210. I was just suggesting that his comments about Lattimer’s theory are persuasive.  So it is Bugliosi’s reasoning that JFK was hit around z210 which appears to strain credulity for you.

I'd have to go back to Reclaiming History to find out what Bugliosi had to say about this. I certainly don't agree that JFK was shot at Z210. That is the earliest the WC concluded that Oswald had a clear line of fire at JFK. That is how they concluded the two shots that hit JFK were no more than 5.6 seconds apart. 103 frames / 18.3 comes out to 5.63 seconds. In reality, the shot probably was fired at or about Z220 and struck at or about Z222.

[Dan O'meara]

The way to make sense of this is to realize some of the agents either didn't hear or didn't recognize the first shot as a gun shot. I continue to believe that four motorcycles would create enough of a roar to partially muffle the sound of the first muzzle blast. JBC who wasn't as close to the motorcycles did recognize the first blast as the sound of a high powered rifle and we see him react to that first sound. The agents we see turning to the rear in Altgens 6 are reacting to the second shot, not the first.

Made up nonsense.

Each agent specifically describes reacting to the first shot and the reactions they describe are those we see in Altgens 6.
Your made up opinion has no basis in evidence or common sense. Your argument is nonsense - the agents who were closer to the shot and not surrounded by motorcycles had the sound of the shot drowned out by the bikes when JBC, who was further away and was surrounded by motorbikes, didn't.
Just baloney.

The agents were reacting to the first shot, just as they reported.
In fact, the initial reports of every person in the car to the first shot is reflected in Altgens 6

[Dan O'meara]

Remember it's Lattimer's theory that it was the rib fragments and tissue exploding/exiting/ejecting from Connally's chest that caused the bulge not the bullet. Critics point to the exit hole in Connally's jacket to say the hole was too low to cause the lapel/jacket bulge. I think they are right. But if the jacket bulge/pop out was caused by fragments higher up, it would, theoretically work.

As to time element: The article is a bit difficult to read but I don't see any reference to the timing between the two. I would think it would have been too quick to capture on the Z film. The jacket is 3-4 inches away from the body? I would think any rib fragments/bullet going through would take less than 1/18 of a second.

The single bullet explanation has its flaws but the alternative explanations or theories are worse. The olde "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Connally's shirt:

An excellent post explaining why we see JBC's jacket bulge in the Z-film.
We see the right side of his jacket bulge outward in a fraction of a second.
A bullet passes through his body blasting bone fragments into the right side of his jacket.
This fact alone should allow us to confidently pinpoint when the bullet passed through JBC.
Let alone his sudden thrashing around, the twisting of his body, rapid hand movements, all within a fraction of a second.

[John Corbett]

Made up nonsense.

Each agent specifically describes reacting to the first shot and the reactions they describe are those we see in Altgens 6.
Your made up opinion has no basis in evidence or common sense. Your argument is nonsense - the agents who were closer to the shot and not surrounded by motorcycles had the sound of the shot drowned out by the bikes when JBC, who was further away and was surrounded by motorbikes, didn't.
Just baloney.

The agents were reacting to the first shot, just as they reported.
In fact, the initial reports of every person in the car to the first shot is reflected in Altgens 6

JBC specifically described reacting to the first shot also and we see that reaction at Z164, about 5 seconds before Altgens 6.

Take another look at the Z-film. The four motorcycles were even with the front bumper of the Queen Mary. The agents were closer to the motorcycles than JBC was.
JFK wanted to be seen by the crowds. That would not have been possible if the motorcycles were pacing the limo.

[Dan O'meara]

JBC specifically described reacting to the first shot also and we see that reaction at Z164, about 5 seconds before Altgens 6.

Take another look at the Z-film. The four motorcycles were even with the front bumper of the Queen Mary. The agents were closer to the motorcycles than JBC was.
JFK wanted to be seen by the crowds. That would not have been possible if the motorcycles were pacing the limo.

It's just stuff you're making up.
Do you even realise that?

JBC does NOT react to a shot at z164. That's just you making stuff up.
The sound of the shot was not drowned out by the bikes. That's just you making stuff up.
Altgens 6 showing Landis, Ready and Hickey reacting to the first shot as they said they did, is not making stuff up.

What if every single person we can see in the follow-up vehicle in Altgens 6 is reacting to the first shot as they said they did, would that change your opinion?