The First Shot

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Online John Corbett

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1575 on: Today at 03:27:34 PM »
Bollocks.
There is nothing in the Z-film that corroborates Connally's recall of the event.
You are cherry-picking a single incorrect observation made by a massively traumatised witness and spinning it into a garment made of nothingness.
Do yourself a favour, have a good read through this thread and learn something about this particular aspect of the case.
The first shot passed through JFK and JBC at Z222/223. The evidence for this is, as they say, overwhelming.

From JBC's WC testimony:

"We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt."

Corroborated by the Z-film showing him turning to his right at Z164.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg

"So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap."

Corrobrated by the Z-film frames Z250 and Z300
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z250.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z300.jpg

"Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.

Corroborated by Z313, showing the discharge of blood and brain forward toward the Connallys.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg

Offline Michael Capasse

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1576 on: Today at 03:27:43 PM »


JohnM

 :D There is no sound on the Zapruder film

Online John Corbett

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1577 on: Today at 03:35:48 PM »
Witnesses are not expected to be perfect but they are consistently right more than they are wrong even on details that were not noticed by many.  That is shown by actual studies. Your spidey senses about witness accuracy are simply wrong.

Many witnesses recalled a pattern to the shots. The overwhelming majority recalled 1…….2…3.  There are only three general patterns for three shots.  So the wrong answers were distributed randomly over the wrong possibilities. This is corroborated by the first shot witnesses (JFK reacted to it) and by the first shot location witnesses (when the motorcade had travelled down Elm St. after the VP car had completed the turn.

Here is how one first shot witness described his location at the time of the first shot"

"We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway"

Very vague and very unsure. This was part of JBC's testimony to the WC. What reason would we have to think that any other witness would have had a clear memory of precisely where they were or where the limo was when they heard the first shot?

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1578 on: Today at 03:48:30 PM »


JohnM

Classic error Mr Mytton.
At the point your clip cuts off JFK smiles and waves at Mary Woodward and her colleagues who are all shouting for the attention of him and Jackie.
In fact, all four occupants (and possibly Kellerman) turn to their right to acknowledge these calls and are looking in the direction of Woodward and co.
Its a really well documented moment.
To insinuate that the really loud sound of a shot causes JFK to smile and wave is silly. Connally also notes that it is a mere "split second" between him hearing the first shot and being hit. It is such a short amount of time he initially thought there was multiple shooters or than someone was using an automatic. He is literally referring to a moment less than one second.

Look at this section of the Z-film again. Woodward recalls that both JFK and Jackie turn and wave as a result of their shouts and it is just after this that the first shot rings out. All four occupants turn in the direction of Woodward. JFK smiles and waves. A second later his hands fly up to his throat and JBC starts thrashing around in the car.

At no point before the shooting does Connally attempt to look at JFK. He turns to look at JFK after he has been shot (wrong order).
He remembers the sound of the shot and being hit as separate events but it was the same event.
He describes things as happening in a "split second" but also that the shooting lasted for around 12 seconds (time dilation).
He 'forgets' that after he has been shot he rolls in front of his seat then pops up to look back toward JFK and Jackie.

There are things he recalls that make sense and some that don't. As a witness he could not be more unreliable.
As far as using the Z-film to corroborate his account, the most helpful detail IMO is that he recalls he was looking just 'left of centre' when he remembers being shot. This is around z232 - z234. Exactly where he picked when given the Z-frames to examine. There is a gap of around 500 milliseconds between something happening and us being consciously aware that it has happened, placing the actual shooting around z222/223.



Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1579 on: Today at 03:58:25 PM »
From JBC's WC testimony:

"We had--we had gone, I guess, 150 feet, maybe 200 feet, I don't recall how far it was, heading down to get on the freeway, the Stemmons Freeway, to go out to the hall where we were going to have lunch and, as I say, the crowds had begun to thin, and we could--I was anticipating that we were going to be at the hall in approximately 5 minutes from the time we turned on Elm Street.
We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot. I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd, but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed my mind was that this is an assassination attempt."

Corroborated by the Z-film showing him turning to his right at Z164.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z164.jpg

"So I merely doubled up, and then turned to my right again and began to--I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap."

Corrobrated by the Z-film frames Z250 and Z300
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z250.jpg
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z300.jpg

"Immediately I could see on my clothes, my clothing, I could see on the interior of the car which, as I recall, was a pale blue, brain tissue, which I immediately recognized, and I recall very well, on my trousers there was one chunk of brain tissue as big as almost my thumb, thumbnail, and again I did not see the President at any time either after the first, second, or third shots, but I assumed always that it was he who was hit and no one else.

Corroborated by Z313, showing the discharge of blood and brain forward toward the Connallys.
https://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg

I'm well aware of his testimony.
If you bothered to read through this thread that you seem to have stumbled into, you would see that JBC's various accounts have been gone through in excruciating detail. He is the most unreliable witness in Dealey Plaza for the reasons already stated.
That you are going to constantly hold his testimony as gospel is no surprise. You are a Lone Nutter. It's what you do.
It makes not one jot of difference what evidence or testimony is presented showing your foolishness for what it is. You have spoken. The die has been cast. It is done.

Fell free to gargle down every utterance of Connally you choose and make up any interpretation you wish. You are a free man.

Online John Corbett

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1580 on: Today at 04:02:52 PM »
I'm well aware of his testimony.
If you bothered to read through this thread that you seem to have stumbled into, you would see that JBC's various accounts have been gone through in excruciating detail. He is the most unreliable witness in Dealey Plaza for the reasons already stated.
That you are going to constantly hold his testimony as gospel is no surprise. You are a Lone Nutter. It's what you do.
It makes not one jot of difference what evidence or testimony is presented showing your foolishness for what it is. You have spoken. The die has been cast. It is done.

Fell free to gargle down every utterance of Connally you choose and make up any interpretation you wish. You are a free man.

I gave specific examples of parts of his testimony that are corroborated by the Z-film and all you can do is respond with bluster.

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1581 on: Today at 04:36:40 PM »
I gave specific examples of parts of his testimony that are corroborated by the Z-film and all you can do is respond with bluster.

You gave nothing other than your cherry-picked 'corroborations' and your own ill informed interpretation of what the Z-film shows.
This thread is a forensic examination of every piece of evidence relating to when the first shot occurred, including Connally's recollections.
Your ignorance regarding this matter appears to be total. Yet you are solidly convinced of your correctness.
For the last time - JBC's memory of the event cannot be relied on because he suffered a massively traumatic, life-threatening injury which dramatically affected his memory of the event.
Do you agree with him that the first two shots were a "split second" apart?
Do you agree he was facing just left of centre when shot?
Do you agree, according to the Z-film, the only time he turns to face JFK is after he has been shot?
Do you agree with JBC's assessment of around z234 as the moment he was shot?
Do you believe in examining ALL the evidence?