The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

You're being ridiculous. Everything the witnesses tell us is "an after-event opinion" and there is no reason to believe a witness' after-event recollection of  a shot pattern is any more reliable than their identification of a perpetrator. As the one article pointed out, the human mind does not have a video recorder. All recollections by witnesses are subject to memory fallibility. If humans perfectly remembered details, there would be unanimity of the recollections of the shot pattern. Clearly there was not.

Witnesses are not expected to be perfect but they are consistently right more than they are wrong even on details that were not noticed by many.  That is shown by actual studies. Your spidey senses about witness accuracy are simply wrong.

Many witnesses recalled a pattern to the shots. The overwhelming majority recalled 1…….2…3.  There are only three general patterns for three shots.  So the wrong answers were distributed randomly over the wrong possibilities. This is corroborated by the first shot witnesses (JFK reacted to it) and by the first shot location witnesses (when the motorcade had travelled down Elm St. after the VP car had completed the turn.

[John Corbett]

Witnesses are not expected to be perfect but they are consistently right more than they are wrong even on details that were not noticed by many.

Just barely.

That is shown by actual studies. Your spidey senses about witness accuracy are simply wrong.

Many witnesses recalled a pattern to the shots. The overwhelming majority recalled 1…….2…3.

Define "overwhelming" and cite your source for this claim.

 

There are only three general patterns for three shots.  So the wrong answers were distributed randomly over the wrong possibilities. This is corroborated by the first shot witnesses (JFK reacted to it) and by the first shot location witnesses (when the motorcade had travelled down Elm St. after the VP car had completed the turn.

Nice job of cherry picking your witnesses. I can think nothing that a witness would be less likely to remember than the precise location of a car at the moment they heard the first shot. Do you think that would be the first thing a witness would make note of when they heard a completely unexpected loud gunshot. What the witnesses gave us were educated guesses. Some guesses were better than others.

[Dan O'meara]

Ear and eyewitnesses will lead you astray because they are wrong as often as they are right. When I read a witnesses statement for the first time, my initial reaction is, that might be right. It might also be wrong. The only way to determine that is how it fits with the body of evidence as a whole. There is one reliable witness and that is Zapruder's camera. Every other witness should be evaluated on how well or poorly their statement conforms with the Z-film. JBC is the key to determining when the first shot was fired. He said he turned to look over his right shoulder in reaction to the first shot. So is he right or wrong. We see him start to make that turn at Z164. So the question then becomes is he turning in reaction to the first shot which happened earlier or is he turning in anticipation of a shot that would come later. That question answers itself. The only question is how much before that turn did the first shot occur. Opinions vary but my belief is the shot would have been fired in the z147-148 window with the sound reaching JBC's ears at Z149-150. That puts his cognitive reaction about 3/4 of a second after hearing the gunshot. There are a number of witnesses who either did not hear or did not recognize the first sound as a gunshot. That would include Jack and Jackie as well as Clint Hill who only remembers hearing two shots. Agent Glen Bennett did hear the first shot while he was scanning the crowd to the right of the motorcade. He turned to look at JFK and saw the SECOND shot strike JFK in the back about five seconds before the headshot that killed him. Bennett's recollection should be given a good deal of weight because he wrote about this in his notes about AF1 on the flight back to Washington. Bennett would have had no other way of knowing JFK was shot in the back since he was on his back from the time he was wheeled into the ER until he was placed in the casket.

The usual Nutter double standard nonsense.
Like all Nutters, John is soooo convinced he is right he is unaware of the contradictory sh*t he spouts.
In the paragraph above he writes:

"Ear and eyewitnesses will lead you astray because they are wrong as often as they are right."

A few sentences later he writes:

"JBC is the key to determining when the first shot was fired"

He is blissfully unaware that, on one hand, he will right off any witness statement that disagrees with his own wrong-headedness by insisting ALL witness testimony is unreliable (even if more than 40 witnesses report the same thing) and, one the other, he puts all his eggs into the basket of a single witness...John Connally.
The idiocy of the Nutter knows no bounds.

John Connally was shot through the torso.
It was a life-threatening injury. He was massively traumatised and went into shock. The distorting effect a massively traumatic event can have on the memory is well documented - time dilation, remembering things in the wrong order, remembering things that didn't even happen etc.
The very worst witness to rely on in Dealey Plaza is Connally.

Have a read through Johns recent posts to get a taste of the arrogant ignorance Nutters enjoy.

[Michael Capasse]

Have a read through Johns recent posts to get a taste of the arrogant ignorance Nutters enjoy.

 

[John Corbett]

The usual Nutter double standard nonsense.
Like all Nutters, John is soooo convinced he is right he is unaware of the contradictory sh*t he spouts.
In the paragraph above he writes:

"Ear and eyewitnesses will lead you astray because they are wrong as often as they are right."

A few sentences later he writes:

"JBC is the key to determining when the first shot was fired"

He is blissfully unaware that, on one hand, he will right off any witness statement that disagrees with his own wrong-headedness by insisting ALL witness testimony is unreliable (even if more than 40 witnesses report the same thing) and, one the other, he puts all his eggs into the basket of a single witness...John Connally.
The idiocy of the Nutter knows no bounds.

John Connally was shot through the torso.
It was a life-threatening injury. He was massively traumatised and went into shock. The distorting effect a massively traumatic event can have on the memory is well documented - time dilation, remembering things in the wrong order, remembering things that didn't even happen etc.
The very worst witness to rely on in Dealey Plaza is John Connally.

Have a read through Johns recent posts to get a taste of the arrogant ignorance Nutters enjoy.

You ignore the fact that JBC is corroborated by the Z-film. We see him do exactly what he said he did both before and after he was shot. That's why I ask for corroboration for statements by other witnesses and rarely get any.

[Dan O'meara]

You ignore the fact that JBC is corroborated by the Z-film. We see him do exactly what he said he did both before and after he was shot. That's why I ask for corroboration for statements by other witnesses and rarely get any.

Bollocks.
There is nothing in the Z-film that corroborates Connally's recall of the event.
You are cherry-picking a single incorrect observation made by a massively traumatised witness and spinning it into a garment made of nothingness.
Do yourself a favour, have a good read through this thread and learn something about this particular aspect of the case.
The first shot passed through JFK and JBC at Z222/223. The evidence for this is, as they say, overwhelming.

[John Mytton]

Bollocks.
There is nothing in the Z-film that corroborates Connally's recall of the event.
You are cherry-picking a single incorrect observation made by a massively traumatised witness and spinning it into a garment made of nothingness.
Do yourself a favour, have a good read through this thread and learn something about this particular aspect of the case.
The first shot passed through JFK and JBC at Z222/223. The evidence for this is, as they say, overwhelming.

JohnM