The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

Oh I do realise that the trajectory of the bullet is right to left (from the shooters POV) which is yet another reason your proposed shot at z270 doesn't work.

Actually, it is NOT a problem at z270 because by z270 the car has turned left so that the shot from the SN is in the direction of the car almost directly from behind. At z270, the right-to-left path from the SN through JBC is arctan(2.3125 /54.0625) or  about 2.5 degrees.

To imagine JBC is hit on the inside of his left thigh from the bullet passing through JFK's neck is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard on this forum, and that's up against some stiff competition.
I wonder how many other forum members are going to go along with this one.

The 3d frames I provided show not only that it is possible, but that it fits the positions of JBC and JFK around z195.  If you think that is ridiculous, what do you call the left to right jog from the left side of JFK's tie knot to strike JBC's right armpit followed by the right to left jog after the wrist to strike the thigh (not to mention the left to right sudden 90 degree turn to follow along the femur)? 

Besides, the thigh wound was on the top portion of the thigh in the same direction as and along the femur (toward the knee):

• and lower third, medial apact. of the left thigh. X-rays of
  the thigh and revealed a bullet fragment which was imbedded
  in the body of the femur via the distal third.
  ...
  The direction of the missile wound was judged not to be in the course
  of the femoral vessel, since the wound was distal and anterior to Hunter's canal.

The Hunter's canal is on the inside of the thigh. This wound was above that to the front (anterior) side.

[Dan O'meara]

Actually, it is NOT a problem at z270 because by z270 the car has turned left so that the shot from the SN is in the direction of the car almost directly from behind. At z270, the right-to-left path from the SN through JBC is arctan(2.3125 /54.0625) or  about 2.5 degrees.
The 3d frames I provided show not only that it is possible, but that it fits the positions of JBC and JFK around z195.  If you think that is ridiculous, what do you call the left to right jog from the left side of JFK's tie knot to strike JBC's right armpit followed by the right to left jog after the wrist to strike the thigh (not to mention the left to right sudden 90 degree turn to follow along the femur)? 

Besides, the thigh wound was on the top portion of the thigh in the same direction as and along the femur (toward the knee):

• and lower third, medial apact. of the left thigh. X-rays of
  the thigh and revealed a bullet fragment which was imbedded
  in the body of the femur via the distal third.
  ...
  The direction of the missile wound was judged not to be in the course
  of the femoral vessel, since the wound was distal and anterior to Hunter's canal.

The Hunter's canal is on the inside of the thigh. This wound was above that to the front (anterior) side.

Please explain how you have established this seated position (body turn and legs) for Moby...sorry, JBC

[Andrew Mason]

Please explain how you have established this seated position (body turn and legs) for Moby...sorry, JBC

The positions in the car are based on their positions seen in z193-198.

[Dan O'meara]

The positions in the car are based on their positions seen in z193-198.

I don't know what to say.
The positions are not even remotely similar.
JBC is sat bolt upright, his head turned to the right.
Moby is twisted way to his right and hunched forward.
Is this some kind of joke that I'm not getting.
The leg positioning of Moby is insane, the arm positioning is crazy.
Mind you, you believe the Z-film shows JBC's wrist being shattered by a bullet exploding out of JBC's chest at z270



The Z-film unequivocally refutes the shot at z270. Your arguments to the contrary have been desperate and weak. I thought this was a low point for you. But now we have your neck-to-thigh shot. You'll have to excuse me but, as far as I'm concerned, we've stepped into the kind of territory usually reserved for those who believe things like "Jackie took the headshot". You're on your own with that.

[Andrew Mason]

I don't know what to say.
The positions are not even remotely similar.
JBC is sat bolt upright, his head turned to the right, his body very slightly turned right.
Moby is twisted way to his right and hunched forward.
Is this some kind of joke that I'm not getting.

There are no material differences that I can see.  How does the precise head turn of JBC affect the position of his left thigh?  How does the position of his arm affect the trajectory to his left thigh? 

The leg positioning of Moby is insane, the arm positioning is crazy.

We are only interested in the position of the left thigh in relation to JFK's neck.  Here is a picture of an actual person from the rear a distance of 2 feet behind :

How is that leg position "insane"?  As an aside, if you would deal with the matter with reasoned criticism it would be much more productive than using this kind of nebulous language.

The Z-film unequivocally refutes the shot at z270. Your arguments to the contrary have been desperate and weak. I thought this was a low point for you. But now we have your neck-to-thigh shot. You'll have to excuse me but, as far as I'm concerned, we've stepped into the kind of territory usually reserved for those who believe things like "Jackie took the headshot". You're on your own with that.

The zfilm is hardly "unequivocal" for anything except the head shot and establishing the "after bracket" of the neck wound.

[Dan O'meara]

The zfilm is hardly "unequivocal" for anything except the head shot and establishing the "after bracket" of the neck wound.

The Z-film is absolutely unequivocal about the shot at z270.
It does not happen.
This is unequivocally shown in the Z-film.
That his wrist/hand does not move in any meaningful way demonstrates, unequivocally, a bullet has not shattered JBC's radius forcefully enough to leave fragments in the wrist and have a fragment blow through the wrist and exit near the crease of the wrist. There can be no doubt whatsoever that such a forceful blow would result in an obvious movement, it's basic physics - Newton's laws of motion, conservation of momentum etc.
I ask anyone reading this post to closely study the images below and ask themselves if it is possible, even given the most fantastical assumptions, that these images represent a bullet exploding out of JBC's chest and shattering his radius leaving fragments embedded in his wrist.



Here is a close up of the same clip:



This is a pic of the moment just after the proposed wrist strike:



Is there anything in this images that even remotely hints at such a powerful strike?
The answer is No.
You're only recourse is to pretend everyone is really stupid and you can just gloss over this irrefutable evidence that completely undermines the model you are presenting.
That won't be happening.

[Dan O'meara]

Obviously we cannot see the bullets flying through the air on the Z-film but there should still be physical evidence of bullet strikes - reactions to "mechanical" impacts, reflex reactions to being hit etc. In my last post I show how the Z-film can be used to refute where a bullet strike is thought to happen but doesn't. This begs the question  - if there is such a forceful blow to the wrist, is it shown in the Z-film?
I believe it is.

Earlier in this thread I have presented a series of arguments related to the complex of sudden, extreme and rapid reactions both JFK and JBC undergo at the same time. From the arguments concerning reflex reactions observed and the time it takes for such reactions to occur I conclude the first shot passed through both men at z223. This very specific frame is chosen because of an observation concerning the difference between this frame and the previous frame, z222. This observation was first pointed out to me by fellow forum member Brian Roselle.

The Gif below is lifted from "The Little JFK Page on the Prairie" [http://users.skynet.be/mar/Eng/SBT/223-226-eng.htm#sommet]
It shows z222 and z223. I would like to draw attention to the shirt cuff of JBC. It can be seen in z222, just above the limo door. In z223 it suddenly disappears:



There are a few things I would like to mention concerning what I believe these images represent. Firstly notice JBC's position - he is sat upright in his seat, he is looking to his right and the top of his body is turned slightly to the right. When we watch the Z-film we see JBC do a quick turn to the left in the z160's then turn back to his right 'z167. He seems to stay in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. Below is z193, it is from the clearest frame just before JBC passes behind the sign (although the other frames are more blurred, none contradict this basic picture):



It appears to me that once JBC turns back to his right (@z167), he stays in this same upright position, looking to his right. His posture and general demeanour seem the same before he passes behind the sign and after he emerges from behind it. I believe this is important because for this duration of the Z-film, Z167-z223, JBC is in this seemingly relaxed, upright posture. From z223 onwards JBC embarks on a series of incredibly rapid and extreme movements that could hardly be greater in contrast to this relaxed, upright posture.
This brings me to a second point - these two frames and what they represent should not be taken in isolation. They are the beginning of a series of extreme and rapid reactions and should be seen as part of this complex of reactions.
In z222 we can see JBC's right shirt cuff. If a bullet shatters his wrist at z223 this shirt cuff should move very rapidly as his wrist is blown apart.
The bullet passes through the right side of his jacket so we should expect to see some kind of reaction there.
The bullet crushes JBC's rib as it passes through his chest, we should expect to see an instantaneous "mechanical" reaction as these forces knock his body about.
Returning to the above Gif. In it we see JBC's shirt cuff disappearing beneath the top of the limo door. It may not seem much but this action occurs in less than 55 milliseconds. To put that in context - it takes about 100 miliiseconds to blink. This is just over half the time it takes to blink. It is an incredibly rapid movement, a mind-bogglingly quick movement and it must be remembered JBC was just sitting in an upright, relaxed position for some time before this moment. All of a sudden he makes this insanely quick movement.
The reason for this movement is the bullet striking his wrist. That is why, in z223, JBC still gives off a generally calm demeanour, yet his hand is making this rapid movement, quicker than  the blink of an eye. The reason JBC seems so calm is that he simply hasn't had enough time to react to being shot.
It will also be noted that JBC's left shoulder rises to a small degree. Again, this may not seem much but it is, in fact, an unbelievably rapid movement and is something we should expect to see. The bullet is causing a "mechanical" reaction. When two objects collide there is an instantaneous mechanical reaction, this is what is happening to JBC. The bullet is physically moving his body.



This Gif represents the moment JFK and JBC are shot through with the first bullet.