The First Shot

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Hi Marjan,

It's obvious you've not read through this thread before posting.
The first shot is described as being a very loud, explosive noise. In Altgens 6 we see three SS agents turned around looking over their right shoulders towards the TSBD. At least two of these agents describe reacting 'immediately' to this very loud noise.
In the Z-film we see that none of the agents making the turn we see in Altgens 6 and we see them until z207.
If the shot happens at z133 it means the agents have not reacted to the first shot for over 4 seconds.
How can you explain that?
Please go back to the beginning of this thread and read a few pages to get an idea of what's going on here.
Thank you.
(nice avatar by the way)

Yes i am aware of everything that u mentioned. I looked at all of pages 1 to 17 (on my computer) of this thread before i jumped to the last page (page 68 on my computer). Before finding this thread i had earlier this week spent hours going throo Zapruder frame by frame looking at the Agent's reactions etc, just like u guys are doing/did.  And I spent hours looking at Agent's & other statements. Every statement had contradictions & errors etc. No the Agents did not react immediately to the first shot. And i recall that one agent even mentions hearing firecrackers earlier on (firecrackers not firecracker).
In particular this week i (again) looked at the investigations into the possibility of the first shot hitting the signal or arm. I did a lot of looking a couple of years ago, & i dont know what made me revisit this stuff.

The most solid fact surrounding the JFK accidental homicide is that Hickey's fatal Z313 AR15 headshot, ie shot number 3, is the last shot. Oswald fired two shots, alltho there is of course a microscopic chance that he fired three, the third being at the same time as Hickey's first shot.

Oswald's second shot is the magic bullet.

The Tague injury is a mystery. The simplest answer is that a fragment of Hickey's shot hit Tague directly. I dont like the idea of a bullet ricocheting off the kerb near Tague.  If Oswald did indeed fire a wild third shot well over the top of the limo then that could of course explain that ricochet.  But there is not the slightest chance of Oswald or anyone else firing a shot after Z313. Hence despite the otherwise good work here in this thread all of u guys are barking up the wrong tree.
 
Does anyone here know which Zapruder frame Altgens 6 corresponds to?

[Andrew Mason]

Really? So everybody is "sailing forward" because they're all moving in the same direction as the limo?
Brilliant stuff.

If you are having trouble believing that the motion is not an illusion, I have measured it for you:

So let's move on to the next big point that needs explaining:

"2. why we see the hand movement between z271-272.  What causes the appearance of the hand and hat to change between z271 and z272?"

I made this Gif to highlight what nonsense you are talking. It comprises of z271 and z272:



Z271 is slightly blurred while z272 is much clearer.
This is what is causing "the appearance of the hand and hat to change".
In fact, there is no change as we can see. And remember, this is the moment the bullet is exploding out of JBC's chest and shattering his wrist. Clear evidence no such shot is taking place.

That is why I compared z268 to z271. Same change. It is subtle, but real. And it occurs between z271 and z272.


The sunvisor over Greer's head also moves between z271 and z271:


There are two marks on the windshield in z272 that do not appear in z271 but those may be the result of slightly more blur in z271.

[Dan O'meara]

Yes i am aware of everything that u mentioned. I looked at all of that before i saw this thread. I spent hours looking at witness statements. Every statement had contradictions & errors etc.
Before saying any more, i have a question, which Zapruder frame does Altgens 6 correspond to?

The general agreement is that it's z255

I agree that the witness statements are very contradictory so I try to rely on the Z-film and see if the witness statements agree with it.

[Charles Collins]

I got my first shot on 1/19, and the second shot today....   

Oh wait... never mind...

[Dan O'meara]

I got my first shot on 1/19, and the second shot today....   

Oh wait... never mind...

 
It's nice to know your first shot didn't miss.

[Andrew Mason]

There is no doubt that Connally pivots in his seat towards Nellie and away from the camera. The angle of Connally's shirt collar, for example, becomes flatter as his torso pivots and reclines.

There may be a slight rightward turn of the shoulders between z271 and 272.  Is that what you are referring to?  He is too far from Nellie for her to reach him at this point and, besides, her arms are down by her side. There is, therefore, something causing movement of the torso before he can be reached by Nellie. I would be interested in hearing your explanation as to what causes that. If that was JBC's doing, I am sure you will be able to explain why he waited 3 seconds after being hit to move.

The major change I see is that a corner of the Stetson comes out of shade in the latter frame.

Do you not see that the hand changes position slightly and the position of the brim of the hat relative to the jacket cuff changes?  Prior to z272 the edge of the hat brim aligns with the end of the jacket cuff. In z272 the brim is moved over the cuff by a perceptible amount and continues that way after.

The driver's side visor wobbles more forcefully prior to Z271. The seating of the visor may be worn or loose, and the visor is affected by wind flow.

Can you identify a time where that kind of movement occurs between two consecutive frames?

[Dan O'meara]

If you are having trouble believing that the motion is not an illusion, I have measured it for you:

That is why I compared z268 to z271. Same change. It is subtle, but real. And it occurs between z271 and z272.


The sunvisor over Greer's head also moves between z271 and z271:


There are two marks on the windshield in z272 that do not appear in z271 but those may be the result of slightly more blur in z271.

There is no change in hand position in frames z271 and z272:



This proves the shot you propose a z271 does not occur. It has been your choice to make a fool of yourself over this. Now, as I understand it, you are proposing that the bullet exits JBC's chest, shatters on his wrist and two fragments fly off with enough force to crack the windshield and dent the chrome trim yet this is not enough force to move his hand. The force of the shattering bullet leaves fragments in his wrist but this is still not enough force to move his hand.
It's now like I'm talking to one of the hard-core Tinfoil Brigade.
But that's your choice.

Anyway...onwards and upwards.
Back to your devastating list of things that refute the unequivocal evidence of the Z-film.
The first two points have demonstrated you are confused about how relative positions change with a changing perspective and are equally confused about blurring.
Jerry has dealt with your wobbly sun visor so now we are in the deep weeds of contradictory eye witness testimony - your lawyerly bread and butter.
All I can do with this is examine the quality of the observations of your creaky witnesses.
Up first - Hickey.
You desperately hang on to this guy because he says he sees JFK's hair fly forward at a time you think you can make work in your doomed model. But let's see how accurate his observations are:

"I heard a loud report which sounded like a firecracker. It appeared to come from the right and rear and seemed to me to be at ground level. I stood up and looked to my right and rear in an attempt to identify it. Nothing caught my attention except people shouting and cheering."

This is the moment we see in Altgens 6

"A disturbance in 679X caused me to look forward toward the President's car. Perhaps 2 or 3 seconds elapsed from the time I looked to the rear and then looked at the President. He was slumped forward and to his left,"

679X is the follow-up car Hickey is in. There is some kind of disturbance which causes Hickey to look towards JFK, who is slumped over. An accurate description of JFK after the first shot.

"and was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position as I turned and looked. At the moment he was almost sitting erect I heard two reports which I thought were shots and that appeared to me completely different in sound than the first report and were in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them."


Erm...JFK "was straightening up to an almost erect sitting position"
What?
" At the moment he was almost sitting erect" - Excuse me??
Nothing even remotely resembling this is shown in the Z-film. Once JFK is slumped over to his left he most certainly does not straighten up until he's " almost sitting erect". Nothing like this happens. What's he talking about?
Then he hears two shots that are so close together there is "practically no time element between them".

It looked to me as if the President was struck in the right upper rear of his head. The first shot of the second two seemed as if it missed because the hair on the right side of his head flew forward and there didn't seem to be any impact against his head.

This is the bit you hang onto. The first of the two shots that are almost simultaneous makes his hair move forward. The slight ruffling of JFK's fringe you insist cannot be this as Hickey is at an impossible angle to see it as JFK's head is turned slightly to the left. But let's not worry about that.

"The last shot seemed to hit his head and cause a noise at the point of impact which made him fall forward and to his left again. - Possibly four or five seconds elapsed from the time of the first report and the last."

Which made him fall forward?
JFK is knocked backwards by the shot, everyone can see this except Hickey.

Hickey fails as a witness. Noticing things that are not there.
That leaves us with Greer