'Devastating': Legal expert says Trump tape is 'gold' for Jack Smith
Following CNN's release of audio footage of former President Donald Trump bragging about holding highly classified military intelligence about Iran attack plans to staffers and patrons of his Bedminster golf club in New Jersey, former federal prosecutor Elie Honig discussed the key implications on CNN on Monday.
This, he argued, is close to the best kind of evidence special counsel Jack Smith could possibly have for the Espionage Act charges against the former president.
"It is stunning to actually hear it," said anchor Kaitlan Collins. "We knew what he said, but to hear the audio, to hear the tone, to hear the conversation, the laughter in there — I mean, I'm not a prosecutor. I imagine this is a prosecutor's dream."
"Exactly right," agreed Honig. "This is a devastating tape. This is why prosecutors love tapes so much. This is why tapes are gold to prosecutors. I used to have cases where the first question was, do you have tapes? If you do, that changes everything."
Last week, Trump sat for an interview with Fox News' Bret Baier, in which he claimed that most of the documents he was being charged for were in fact innocent magazine and newspaper clippings — a claim very much at odds with what he stated on the tape.
"We can see the difference between the black and white transcript, where the words are fairly incriminating," added Honig. "How it comes to life, though. You hear the tone. You hear who's in the room. You hear that he means it. You hear that he's actually shuffling papers. And this, to me, is the most important piece of evidence that we know of in this case."
Former prosecutor tells Maddow how newly released tape will be used during Trump's trial
MSNBC's Rachel Maddow began her Monday show by doing her own dramatic reading of Donald Trump's audio tape that was revealed by CNN. After listening to the tape, she explained that so much is left out in transcripts, like the cadence and inflection that makes it clear that Trump is handing a classified document to someone.
"I mean, let's just draw down on the specifics of this for a second. In Jack Smith bringing charges against Donald Trump, the sort of crux of the case, right?" said Maddow. "Is that the prosecution has to be able to prove that Trump had classified documents in his possession after he left the presidency, right? That's the illegal activity alleged in the indictment. And here in this part of the tape is Donald Trump saying he had possession of classified information after leaving the presidency."
Former federal prosecutor Barb McQuade, who now teaches law at the University of Michigan, joined the conversation saying she had two reactions to what she heard.
"One, as a former prosecutor, it makes my hair stand on end a little bit to see this in the public domain," she said. "Prosecutors try to keep this stuff safeguarded so you can't have witness tampering and crowdsourcing of defenses. Now people can because this is in the public domain. But as a matter of evidence, this is really powerful evidence. We had seen some verbatim quotes from this recording that was in the indictment, but to hear the whole thing play out, I think, is incredible evidence. And at trial, it will not just be this recording that's played in a vacuum. They will have to authenticate this document, this recording, with someone who was there. So, whether it is the biographer or the publisher or one of the two staffers, one or more of them will have to be there."
The question she expects them to be asked is if they looked at the documents because it sounds as if he is handing them to folks.
"So, I think it proves a couple of things," McQuade continued. "One as you said, his knowledge and intent, which is important here about that he is willfully violating the law, and the other is the incredible recklessness with which he is treating our national secrets. It is a very powerful piece of evidence."
McQuade ended the interview by saying, "Let's have some cokes," a reference to the bizarre final line in the tapes.
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