Don't get bit.....

[Alan J. Ford]

Like many, I have a lot of extra free time now, which I spend wisely on reading, modelling and playing Twilight in the East. And on a return to this fine Forum.

Let me try to respond to your request for "good, intelligent posts to respond to."

One, it seems fatal, flaw in the Oswald-the-patsy theory is that the entire cunning plan to murder the President collapses if the designated patsy fails to show up at the desired location on the day and time of the planned assassination.

So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.

Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?

More than a few excellent points there, Mr. Van De Wiel, thanks for sharing.

In respect to an alternative patsy and/or a stable of potential patsies, we have to consider if Bonnie Ray Williams; Jack Dougherty and/or the man Marrion Baker encountered in his same day affidavit were cleverly lured/placed into position ---->

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

The interesting thing here is we are left to wonder if the aforementioned individuals and their respective movements eliminated them as pasties ---->

Bonnie Ray Williams left his position on the sixth floor in a nick of time to join "Junior" Jarman and Harold Norman down on the 5th floor; Jack Dougherty left the upper floors, taking an elevator downstairs before the authorities arrived; and, when one considers the man Baker encounters above the 2nd floor, we know he isn't anyone established in Commission Exhibit 1381 (where all of the employees state their actual positions while actually viewing the presidential-parade, Yet the building-super' Roy Truly says the following about this fellow, quote,  "I know that man, he works here."

Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.

The mystery here is two-fold: Who is this man? and, Was he lured in position upon the upper floors, but "saw the light" as things begin unfolding and got out of Dodge via the stairway where he encounters Baker? Did Truly, fearing this man would blow the whole plot out in the open, vouch for him in return for his silence? There's more to this case than a lone gunman with a satchel full of magic-bullets...

The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.

[Alan J. Ford]

Question for Mr. Cakebread: Has actual research confirmed there was movements of boxes in the "sniper's nest" during an interval of time a couple of minutes after the shooting?

This sequence, timing would help eliminate the wrongly accused of being the individual(s) responsible for that movement if it actually occurred within that time frame. Your thoughts please...much obliged

[Walt Cakebread]

Question for Mr. Cakebread: Has actual research confirmed there was movements of boxes in the "sniper's nest" during an interval of time a couple of minutes after the shooting?

This sequence, timing would help eliminate the wrongly accused of being the individual(s) responsible for that movement if it actually occurred within that time frame. Your thoughts please...much obliged

There have been several studies of the photos and the conclusion is the box on the window sill was moved in the thirty seconds between the photos.....

Of course this is utter nonsense because if someone was there in that window they would have been seen and photographed because the photographers attention was riveted on that window.

The truth is: The chronolggy between the Powell and Dillard photos has been reversed..... James Powell took his photo BEFORE Dillard took his photo.    There was someone in that SE corner window when Powell took his photo a few minutes prior to the shooting.....And that person bumped the sill box after Powell had snapped the shutter, thus the box was in a different position when Tom Dillard snapped his photo DURING the shooting.

[Alan J. Ford]

Thank You!, Mr. Cakebread, appreciate the prompt response.

One final question, taking into account Lillian Mooneyham's observations: She intimates she saw someone standing in the "sniper's nest" several minutes after the shooting. That said, Could a member of law enforcement have been the individual in trousers she saw that afternoon?

Would like to establish their response time, so I can rule the individual she saw as just a responding law enforcement individual, nothing more, nothing less...

 unless of course, law enforcement did not arrive in that specific location within her several minute time-frame sighting. Thanks in advance for response...am on my way out to complete some weekend odds & ends. Will double-back here later today.

[Walt Cakebread]

Okay, point well taken, Mr. Cakebread,

meanwhile, to your credit and/or to the credit of the first generation researchers, it has been established that Mr. Dillard's photos came before an Army Intelligence Agent James Powell's filming sequence ----->

During the HSCA in 77-78...the photographic panel, with reports prepared by Rochester Institute of Technology and the Stanford Research Inst.Inc. showed that the shadows on both Dillard and Powell were taken at the same approximate time...Though Dillard's two were made first..A major item revealed in the Dillard was a circular light fixture including a light bulb hanging from the ceiling of the 5th floor room ....there were no signs of any human faces or forms in the open 6th floor window or adjacent window.."Subsequent examinations of these photos ,the box locations and sunlight patterns would indicate that there is no inconsistency"

*Credit: the research of the late Bernice Moore (RIP Dear Lady)

That said, off here for now...will continue to pursue this line of research, but meanwhile wishing all a safe week and the best of health amid this ongoing pandemic challenge.

Study the shadows for yourself......And FWIW....I don't believe there were "Light bulbs hanging from the ceiling"..... A dangerous fire hazard in that old building full of combustible material. 

[Walt Cakebread]

More than a few excellent points there, Mr. Van De Wiel, thanks for sharing.

In respect to an alternative patsy and/or a stable of potential patsies, we have to consider if Bonnie Ray Williams; Jack Dougherty and/or the man Marrion Baker encountered in his same day affidavit were cleverly lured/placed into position ---->

AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS

BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:

Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

s/ M. L. Baker

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963

/s/ Mary Rattan

Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas

The interesting thing here is we are left to wonder if the aforementioned individuals and their respective movements eliminated them as pasties ---->

Bonnie Ray Williams left his position on the sixth floor in a nick of time to join "Junior" Jarman and Harold Norman down on the 5th floor; Jack Dougherty left the upper floors, taking an elevator downstairs before the authorities arrived; and, when one considers the man Baker encounters above the 2nd floor, we know he isn't anyone established in Commission Exhibit 1381 (where all of the employees state their actual positions while actually viewing the presidential-parade, Yet the building-super' Roy Truly says the following about this fellow, quote,  "I know that man, he works here."

Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.

The mystery here is two-fold: Who is this man? and, Was he lured in position upon the upper floors, but "saw the light" as things begin unfolding and got out of Dodge via the stairway where he encounters Baker? Did Truly, fearing this man would blow the whole plot out in the open, vouch for him in return for his silence? There's more to this case than a lone gunman with a satchel full of magic-bullets...

The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.

Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.

Was the lunchroom brightly illuminated?   

Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.

What was Baker recalling in his minds eye??.....  The lunchroom was not "dim in there"........

[Walt Cakebread]

Thank You!, Mr. Cakebread, appreciate the prompt response.

One final question, taking into account Lillian Mooneyham's observations: She intimates she saw someone standing in the "sniper's nest" several minutes after the shooting. That said, Could a member of law enforcement have been the individual in trousers she saw that afternoon?

Would like to establish their response time, so I can rule the individual she saw as just a responding law enforcement individual, nothing more, nothing less...

 unless of course, law enforcement did not arrive in that specific location within her several minute time-frame sighting. Thanks in advance for response...am on my way out to complete some weekend odds & ends. Will double-back here later today.

How long is  " several minutes" ?  How much time elapsed after the shooting to the point where Lillian saw a man standing in the SN window?

I doubt that any Law enforcement officer was "standing in that window" any sooner than about thirty minutes after the shooting.   I believe that Mooney was the first law enforcement officer at that window.   And he was there at about 1:00pm  .... But he left the window and went to the seventh floor before deciding to reurn to the sixth floor.....and then he discovered the spent shells.....at about 1:06.  ( I wonder if he put the shells there on his first visit so he could "discover" them on his second visit???