JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Walt Cakebread on April 03, 2020, 10:45:11 PM
-
One glance at the reply column reveals that I'm not venturing out where that novel Corona bug can bite me. And I've read all my books.....TV bores me, so I'm spending a lot of time here harassing the opposition. But I'd appreciate it if there was more good, intelligent, posts to respond to.
-
One glance at the reply column reveals that I'm not venturing out where that novel Corona bug can bite me. And I've read all my books.....TV bores me, so I'm spending a lot of time here harassing the opposition. But I'd appreciate it if there was more good, intelligent, posts to respond to.
I'm spending a lot of time here harassing the opposition.
Try posting your own “good intelligent posts.” And less time harassing others...
-
I'm spending a lot of time here harassing the opposition.
Try posting your own “good intelligent posts.” And less time harassing others...
C'mon Charlie... If you present a point worth debating , you won't get harassed.....
-
C'mon Charlie... If you present a point worth debating , you won't get harassed.....
And God didn’t make little green apples.
And it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.
-
And God didn’t make little green apples.
And it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.
Hey, that isn't your usual copy/paste quote from some book, that you won't or can't defend, yet present anyway as if it means something ....
Going downhill fast....
-
And God didn’t make little green apples.
And it don’t rain in Indianapolis in the summertime.
Charlie, Are you drunk?....or just wish you were?
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was framed. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was frame. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
Hi Alan, I appreciate that you value my opinion and views....
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Alan , I feel very sure that the colored employees who worked for Roy Truly had been raised in the era of segregation and "White Supremacy "., and It is a fact that Roy Truly referred to the colored men as "boys" and "his ni------" I'm totally convinced that the young colored men, simply cringed when questioned by the police and FBI agents. There are many photos of Bonnie Ray Williams in custody that afternoon, and he appears as the epitome of a terrorized young man. There's not an iota of doubt in my mind that he would have said whatever he thought those authorities wanted to hear....And the same is true of Harold Norman, But Norman was even worse that Williams....In the fact that Harold Norman was even worse than Williams because Norman would create information to ingratiate himself with those white men in suits.....For Example....He told the FBI that he heard the sound of the rifle bolt being operated and the sound muzzle blast and the sounds of the shells hitting the floor . Norman was lying.....He probably did hear gun shots but he most certainly didn't hear the bolt being operated or shells hitting the floor....
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was framed. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Yes, I believe that Jarman ( who was a older than BRW or HN ) realized that there was a "skunk under the woodpile" ..... Junior couldn't see the skunk but his nose told him it was there. IOW.....Jarman knew that the story being aired on radio and TV was not true..... But he also knew that he would be wise to keep his mouth shut and continue to watch the grass and flowers grow from the green side. However Jarman felt a bit more at ease when he appeared before LBJ's cover up committee, and there fore spoke a little more openly. He swore that he and Norman left the front of the TSBD at about 12:25 and walked around to the back door of the TSBD, passing right by the 1st floor lunchroom, and then took the west elevator to the 5th floor, where they arrived at 12:28. ( Lee Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was in the lunchroom and had seen them walk by the lunchroom)
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was framed. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
I'm sure that the eyewitnesses saw smoke..... But I doubt that it was gunsmoke..... Because modern gunpowder burns very hot and doesn't emit much smoke.
I suspect that the witnesses saw smoke from the large firecracker that was a signal to the assassination team to open fire. Since gunpowder burns very hot not only doesn't it emit much smoke there is not much odor created either, whereas a firecracker does produce a lot of smoke and also a copious amount of odor.
I'm convinced that there was no rifle fired from that SE corner window.
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was framed. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
No, Lee does not sound like a deranged person...... He does sound a bit angry, but still being polite and respectful in his reply....
I have no doubt that Lee Oswald was suckered into making himself appear to be the assassin....BUT BUT.... that was the consequences for placing too much trust in an organization that he deeply admired, The FBI.
-
Good afternoon, Mr. Cakebread
Remember reading some of your interesting & insightful post back in 2014 when I made my initial foray into JFK Assassination Research. Given that you have some time on your hands at the moment, this would be an ideal time to ask you a few questions and get your feedback.
Q1: Given the times of the day, Do you believe the Coloured TSBD workers in that Jim Crow era would withhold any key evidence contrary to the findings of the Warren Commission? Could they be prone to the conditions of that era to simply parrot back whatever the authorities wanted to hear?
Q2: With Q1 in mind, given that it has now been revealed—albeit many years later—that the wrongly accused from his vantage point downstairs on the first-floor actually saw James “Junior” Jarman re-enter the building from the rear as late as 12:25PM,
nowhere near the front of the building, let alone six stories up lurking in a window far removed from the rear of the building, awaiting President Kennedy’s arrival, Do you think/believe James “Junior” Jarman knew which way the wind was blowing as he parroted back what officialdom wanted to hear?
Q3: What is your personal take on the gunsmoke seen by multiple eyewitness some 100 yards down Elm Street that afternoon, nowhere near a gun discharge from the sixth floor? and the subsequent smell of gunpowder-smell emanating soon afterwards? ---->
http://jfkact.org/?p=940
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
Did you catch what he said there, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, “I don’t even know what I’m here for”… that’s a very telling statement. The wrongly accused was framed. He didn’t shoot anybody. Anybody.
Oswald: I'm innocent.
CT Judge: Okay, you can go.
Oswald: [SMIRK]
-
Mr. Cakebread,
Appreciate your time today sir , and have read 3/4ths of your responses. Em's giving me that look, so am off for now to complete some weekend odds & ends; and will certainly venture back later today to read your response to Q4. Again, Thank You! Best to you & yours to remain healthy & safe amid this ongoing pandemic challenge.
Hmm...raising my eyebrows at your description of the Warren Commission, quote ----> "LBJs's Cover Up Committee".
Were the American people lulled to sleep? Is the "Magic Bullet" a mere fairytale after all...
-
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
No, Lee does not sound like a deranged person...... He does sound a bit angry, but still being polite and respectful in his reply....
I have no doubt that Lee Oswald was suckered into making himself appear to be the assassin....BUT BUT.... that was the consequences for placing too much trust in an organization that he deeply admired, The FBI.
I have no doubt you suffer from a severe discernment deficit. No way to tell if it is limited to your cultish attraction to authoritarianism....
How can I help you extract your head.......
…..They are, for the most part, developmentally wounded “authoritarians”, which means they submit readily to authority....
https://twitter.com/BandyXLee1/status/1244463041913200640
-
Mr. Cakebread,
Appreciate your time today sir , and have read 3/4ths of your responses. Em's giving me that look, so am off for now to complete some weekend odds & ends; and will certainly venture back later today to read your response to Q4. Again, Thank You! Best to you & yours to remain healthy & safe amid this ongoing pandemic challenge.
Hmm...raising my eyebrows at your description of the Warren Commission, quote ----> "LBJs's Cover Up Committee".
Were the American people lulled to sleep? Is the "Magic Bullet" a mere fairytale after all...
Were the American people lulled to sleep? Is the "Magic Bullet" a mere fairytale after all...
How were we to know??.... The authorities were feeding the reporters, and we had no way to know the stories were lies.
Is the "Magic Bullet" a mere fairytale after all...
Absolutely!!... Many have attempted to reproduce the bullet ( CE 399) by firing a FMJ 6.5mm projectile into animal flesh ( and other substances ) and nobody has come close to replicating CE 399. It's a mystery to me WHY? the conspirators didn't realize that the bullet they had fired into a bullet trap would never pass for a bullet that had passed through two men and struck several bones as it passed through their bodies. How utterly STUPID !!
-
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
No, Lee does not sound like a deranged person...... He does sound a bit angry, but still being polite and respectful in his reply....
I have no doubt that Lee Oswald was suckered into making himself appear to be the assassin....BUT BUT.... that was the consequences for placing too much trust in an organization that he deeply admired, The FBI.
"I didn't shoot anybody, No Sir...I haven't been told what I'm here for " ( Do I have Lee's reply to the reporter correct? ) I assume the question probably was..."Did you shoot the president?"
-
Lastly, Q4 and a Thank You in advance for your time today. Does this sound like a deranged, pathetic loser as others try to portray him seeking his glorified 15 minutes of fame? ---->
No, Lee does not sound like a deranged person...... He does sound a bit angry, but still being polite and respectful in his reply....
I have no doubt that Lee Oswald was suckered into making himself appear to be the assassin....BUT BUT.... that was the consequences for placing too much trust in an organization that he deeply admired, The FBI.
He does sound a bit angry, but still being polite and respectful in his reply.
> Too late. He should have employed that tactic in the TT.
-
"I didn't shoot anybody, No Sir...I haven't been told what I'm here for " ( Do I have Lee's reply to the reporter correct? ) I assume the question probably was..."Did you shoot the president?"
Yes, that's affirmative...you are correct, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, ( Do I have Lee's reply to the reporter correct? ) ---->
That said, To your valid point about Norman embellishing his testimony about hearing the bolt action of the rifle and spent-shell cartridges hitting the floor, here he is lying his eyes out once again ---->
Mr. BALL. From the time that you went down on the first floor until you left the building to go home did you leave the building at all?
Mr. NORMAN. No; I didn't.
Contrasted w/the statement of his companion on the 5th floor, who accompanied him downstairs following the same shooting sequence ---->
Mr. BALL - You ran to the front door?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir; and out on the street.
Mr. BALL - You and who?
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman.
Mr. BALL - You and Harold went out there?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Norman couldn't even get his story straight, let alone have bionic ears.
-
Quote attributed to Mr. Cakebread, quote, "I'm convinced that there was no rifle fired from that SE corner window."
Care to elaborate?
-
Yes, that's affirmative...you are correct, Mr. Cakebread at, quote, ( Do I have Lee's reply to the reporter correct? ) ---->
That said, To your valid point about Norman embellishing his testimony about hearing the bolt action of the rifle and spent-shell cartridges hitting the floor, here he is lying his eyes out once again ---->
Mr. BALL. From the time that you went down on the first floor until you left the building to go home did you leave the building at all?
Mr. NORMAN. No; I didn't.
Contrasted w/the statement of his companion on the 5th floor, who accompanied him downstairs following the same shooting sequence ---->
Mr. BALL - You ran to the front door?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir; and out on the street.
Mr. BALL - You and who?
Mr. JARMAN - Harold Norman.
Mr. BALL - You and Harold went out there?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Norman couldn't even get his story straight, let alone have bionic ears.
Norman couldn't even get his story straight, let alone have bionic ears.
It wasn't merely a matter of having "bionic ears" and claiming that he hear the bolt being operated and the shells hitting the floor....Here's how Haw Haw Harry described he sounds he heard ....Boom....Click , clack....Boom ....Click, Clack..... Boom....Click, Clack.....
What he should have heard if he had actually heard the noises is..... Boom!...Click ...plink. .....Clack..... ( repeated three times.) Ol prevaricatin Harry forgot that he said that he had heard the spent shells falling in the floor..... and he forgot to include that "PLINK" of the shell being ejected and falling on he floor when he told the story of his heroic deed.....
-
Quote attributed to Mr. Cakebread, quote, "I'm convinced that there was no rifle fired from that SE corner window."
Care to elaborate?
The fact that there was no rifle fired from that SE corner window is actually very easy to prove.....There are several pieces of evidence that supports this contention.
A) It would have been physically impossible to rest the 40 inch carcano on top of the stack of Rolling readers and declined the muzzle of the rifle down onto Elm street if a 5"9" man had been sitting on a 14 inch tall box behind the stack of rolling readers that were stacked three feet high. ( the liars said that here was a scar made by the rifle on the top box, and that is NOT the box on the window sill.) A 5'9" man's shoulder would have been about the same height as the stack of Rolling Readers..... IOW.....The rifle would have been level or slightly elevated.
B) Tom Dillard took a couple of photos of the face of the TSBD ( one while the shooting was in progress, or just seconds later, and there is nobody visible in that window.
C) Howard Brennan said that he saw a 175 pound man, who was dressed in Khaki colored clothes, STANDING and aiming a hunting rifle out of a window. No man could have stood in the narrow space between the boxes and the wall and fired down from that half open window.... The boxes would have forced the man to be right next to the window , so he could not have aimed the rifle down onto Elm street ( he would have fired into the ledge below the window.
-
The fact that there was no rifle fired from that SE corner window is actually very easy to prove.....There are several pieces of evidence that supports this contention.
A) It would have been physically impossible to rest the 40 inch carcano on top of the stack of Rolling readers and declined the muzzle of the rifle down onto Elm street if a 5"9" man had been sitting on a 14 inch tall box behind the stack of rolling readers that were stacked three feet high. ( the liars said that here was a scar made by the rifle on the top box, and that is NOT the box on the window sill.) A 5'9" man's shoulder would have been about the same height as the stack of Rolling Readers..... IOW.....The rifle would have been level or slightly elevated.
B) Tom Dillard took a couple of photos of the face of the TSBD ( one while the shooting was in progress, or just seconds later, and there is nobody visible in that window.
C) Howard Brennan said that he saw a 175 pound man, who was dressed in Khaki colored clothes, STANDING and aiming a hunting rifle out of a window. No man could have stood in the narrow space between the boxes and the wall and fired down from that half open window.... The boxes would have forced the man to be right next to the window , so he could not have aimed the rifle down onto Elm street ( he would have fired into the ledge below the window.
Response (B) is very telling, considering the filming sequence recording of Hughes (Robert), now coupled w/Tom Dillard's photos confirming nobody visible in that window. Could the same people who created Operation Northwoods ---->
https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
have the means, resources and power to stage a "sniper's-nest"? frame an innocent patsy? and control, quote, "LBJ's Cover-Up Committee"?
-
Response (B) is also a Walt Fabrication.
-
Response (B) is also a Walt Fabrication.
Please...no snide remarks from the peanut gallery ....
-
Mr. Cakebread, taking nothing away from your research into this five decade plus murder mystery, Mr. Iacoletti's remarks have prompted me to shift into Ronald Reagan trust but verify mode. So, will do some additional reading today on Tom Dillard and his photo filming sequence. Again, taking nothing away from you and your research, but am only doing this in the spirit of ensuring what we share, not just you, is at least validated and moving in the right direction on the side of truth, light and justice in this case.
That said, moving along now to my previous remarks about staging the "sniper's nest", when I personally think about the following exchange I wonder why Mr. Truly would be over in the Southeast window on the sixth-floor before the responding authorities happened on scene that afternoon ---->
So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin.
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn't.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases
Say, again, Mr. Truly...YOU were there when? Before the authorities? Doing what, Mr. Truly?, staging a "sniper's nest"?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Cat got your tongue, Mr. Truly?
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
-
Response (B) is very telling, considering the filming sequence recording of Hughes (Robert), now coupled w/Tom Dillard's photos confirming nobody visible in that window. Could the same people who created Operation Northwoods ---->
https://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1
have the means, resources and power to stage a "sniper's-nest"? frame an innocent patsy? and control, quote, "LBJ's Cover-Up Committee"?
'means, resources and power'
Means
1) A deranged marine-trained rifleman with a high-powered rifle
2) A tall building with a view to a kill
3) A sitting duck in a slow-moving convertible
Resources
1) $19 for the rifle
2) Free chauffeur service to location
3) 10c for a Dr Pepper Coke
4) A few bucks for Smith, Wesson... and Lee
Power
1) Mannlicher Carcano with over-penetrating FMJ ammo
-
Mr. Cakebread, taking nothing away from your research into this five decade plus murder mystery, Mr. Iacoletti's remarks have prompted me to shift into Ronald Reagan trust but verify mode. So, will do some additional reading today on Tom Dillard and his photo filming sequence. Again, taking nothing away from you and your research, but am only doing this in the spirit of ensuring what we share, not just you, is at least validated and moving in the right direction on the side of truth, light and justice in this case.
That said, moving along now to my previous remarks about staging the "sniper's nest", when I personally think about the following exchange I wonder why Mr. Truly would be over in the Southeast window on the sixth-floor before the responding authorities happened on scene that afternoon ---->
So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin.
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn't.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases
Say, again, Mr. Truly...YOU were there when? Before the authorities? Doing what, Mr. Truly?, staging a "sniper's nest"?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Cat got your tongue, Mr. Truly?
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
will do some additional reading today on Tom Dillard and his photo filming sequence. Again, taking nothing away from you and your research, but am only doing this in the spirit of ensuring what we share,
Suit yourself...but I can save you some time by telling you that you'll find nothing that contradicts the conspirators ridiculous stance that Dillard took his photo 30 seconds after the shooting. ( Think about that...Tom Dillard was a sports photographer with lightning like reflexes when taking action photos )
I'd suggest that you examine the photos.....The story is in the photos.... And Dillard DID NOT take his photo 30 seconds after the action.
-
Mr. BALL - How many explosions did you hear?
Mr. DILLARD - I heard three - the three approximately equally spaced.
Mr. BALL - What is your best estimate of the position of your car with reference to the turn at Main and Houston when you heard the first explosion?
Mr. DILLARD - Perhaps, oh, just a few feet around the corner and it seems we had slowed a great deal. It seems that our car had slowed down so that we were moving rather slowly and perhaps just passed the turn when I heard the first explosion.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anyone in your car say anything?
Mr. DILLARD - Well, after the third shot I know my comment was, "They killed him." I don't know why I said that but Jackson - there was some running comment about what can we do or where is it coming from and we were all looking. We had an absolutely perfect view of the School Depository from our position in an open car, and Bob Jackson said, "There's a rifle barrel up there." I said, "Where?" I had my camera ready. He said, "It's in that open window." Of course, there were several open windows and I scanned the building.
Mr. BALL - Which building?
Mr. DILLARD - The School Book Depository. And at the same time I brought my camera up and I was looking for the window. Now this was after the third shot and Jackson said, "there's the rifle barrel up there." And then he said it was the second from the top in the right hand side, and I swung t it and there was two figures below, and I just shot with one camera, 100-mm. Lens on a 35-mm. Camera which is approximately a two times daily photo twice normal lens and a wide angle on a 35-mm. Which took in a considerable portion of the building and I shot those pictures in rapid sequence with the two cameras.
-
will do some additional reading today on Tom Dillard and his photo filming sequence. Again, taking nothing away from you and your research, but am only doing this in the spirit of ensuring what we share,
Suit yourself...but I can save you some time by telling you that you'll find nothing that contradicts the conspirators ridiculous stance that Dillard took his photo 30 seconds after the shooting. ( Think about that...Tom Dillard was a sports photographer with lightning like reflexes when taking action photos )
I'd suggest that you examine the photos.....The story is in the photos.... And Dillard DID NOT take his photo 30 seconds after the action.
Okay, point well taken, Mr. Cakebread,
meanwhile, to your credit and/or to the credit of the first generation researchers, it has been established that Mr. Dillard's photos came before an Army Intelligence Agent James Powell's filming sequence ----->
During the HSCA in 77-78...the photographic panel, with reports prepared by Rochester Institute of Technology and the Stanford Research Inst.Inc. showed that the shadows on both Dillard and Powell were taken at the same approximate time...Though Dillard's two were made first..A major item revealed in the Dillard was a circular light fixture including a light bulb hanging from the ceiling of the 5th floor room ....there were no signs of any human faces or forms in the open 6th floor window or adjacent window.."Subsequent examinations of these photos ,the box locations and sunlight patterns would indicate that there is no inconsistency"
*Credit: the research of the late Bernice Moore (RIP Dear Lady)
That said, off here for now...will continue to pursue this line of research, but meanwhile wishing all a safe week and the best of health amid this ongoing pandemic challenge.
-
Mr. BALL - How many explosions did you hear?
Mr. DILLARD - I heard three - the three approximately equally spaced.
Mr. BALL - What is your best estimate of the position of your car with reference to the turn at Main and Houston when you heard the first explosion?
Mr. DILLARD - Perhaps, oh, just a few feet around the corner and it seems we had slowed a great deal. It seems that our car had slowed down so that we were moving rather slowly and perhaps just passed the turn when I heard the first explosion.
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anyone in your car say anything?
Mr. DILLARD - Well, after the third shot I know my comment was, "They killed him." I don't know why I said that but Jackson - there was some running comment about what can we do or where is it coming from and we were all looking. We had an absolutely perfect view of the School Depository from our position in an open car, and Bob Jackson said, "There's a rifle barrel up there." I said, "Where?" I had my camera ready. He said, "It's in that open window." Of course, there were several open windows and I scanned the building.
Mr. BALL - Which building?
Mr. DILLARD - The School Book Depository. And at the same time I brought my camera up and I was looking for the window. Now this was after the third shot and Jackson said, "there's the rifle barrel up there." And then he said it was the second from the top in the right hand side, and I swung t it and there was two figures below, and I just shot with one camera, 100-mm. Lens on a 35-mm. Camera which is approximately a two times daily photo twice normal lens and a wide angle on a 35-mm. Which took in a considerable portion of the building and I shot those pictures in rapid sequence with the two cameras.
As I told Alan, You'll find nothing that contradicts their lie that Tom Dillard was a slow witted, dumb bell who took 30 seconds to figger out what was happening.
The reversing of the chronology between the Powell photo and the Dillard photo is crucial in tricking the pubic into believing that the arch villain Lee Harrrrrrvey , Ossssswald ( BOOOOOO HISSSSS) had shot JFK but Dilliard was too slow witted to capture him in a photo.
-
I found something interesting today. Norman's testimony to the WC is that he was on the 5th floor and heard three distinct cycles of a rifle. ( I'm para-phrasing now) but he claims he heard a bolt action -loading, a bolt action-ejecting and a shell hit the floor. Then a bolt action-loading, a bolt-action-ejecting and a second shell hitting the floor. Then he heard a bolt action-loading and a bolt action-ejecting and a third shell hitting the floor. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE. IF there was someone shooting from the so called sniper's nest above him, he would not have heard the first (loading) bold action. The rifle would have already been loaded. And it is nearly impossible that he would have heard the final bolt action-ejecting. NO sniper would have waited around and unloaded the shell casing and then left the weapon there to be found. Norman is lying about what he heard. There were no shots fired from the School Book Depository. Period.
-
I found something interesting today. Norman's testimony to the WC is that he was on the 5th floor and heard three distinct cycles of a rifle. ( I'm para-phrasing now) but he claims he heard a bolt action -loading, a bolt action-ejecting and a shell hit the floor. Then a bolt action-loading, a bolt-action-ejecting and a second shell hitting the floor. Then he heard a bolt action-loading and a bolt action-ejecting and a third shell hitting the floor. THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE. IF there was someone shooting from the so called sniper's nest above him, he would not have heard the first (loading) bold action. The rifle would have already been loaded. And it is nearly impossible that he would have heard the final bolt action-ejecting. NO sniper would have waited around and unloaded the shell casing and then left the weapon there to be found. Norman is lying about what he heard. There were no shots fired from the School Book Depository. Period.
You're right, Norman was lying about hearing the noises he claimed that he heard.......But the conspirators wanted him to continue telling that tale so when they
"reenacted" the imaginary actions of Lee Oswald, they had good ol Harry Norman down on the fifth floor when they dropped "SOMETHING" on the floor above his head so that he would recall he sound of the shells dropping on the floor.
-
He never heard anything. As a NEGRO.....he was told what to hear. Welcome to Dallas. 1963.
-
I'm very much a conservative. But I KNOW WHAT DALLAS like in 1963. Now way that a young black man in Dallas was going to tell the truth if it put him in danger. NO WAY
-
Bonnie Ray Williams too. If he was the negro that Rowland saw in the SE window, I can see why he wouldn’t be forthcoming about having been there.
-
Bonnie Ray Williams too. If he was the negro that Rowland saw in the SE window, I can see why he wouldn’t be forthcoming about having been there.
The photos that I've seen of Bonnie Ray Williams in custody after the coup d e'tat show a young man that was in terror. Williams definitely knew some thing that had put him in jeopardy. IMO he KNEW that Lee Oswald was NOT on the sixth floor at the time JFK was murdered....and he could identify the man that Rowland had seen.
-
Well....I don't know if that is true. Just noticed that things didn't add up in the WC testimony of Newton and that the shots that he alleged that he heard just don't add up. I don't believe that there were any shots from the Texas School Book Depository. Factual evidence just doesn't support it.
-
Sorry...I said Newton.....meant Norman....my mistake
-
I'm very much a conservative. But I KNOW WHAT DALLAS like in 1963. Now way that a young black man in Dallas was going to tell the truth if it put him in danger. NO WAY
To place this incident in proper perspective it is necessary to understand that there were two lunchrooms in the Book Depository. Texas was a part of the deep south and even the Mayor of Dallas acknowledged that the city had a reputation as the “Hate capitol of Dixie.” (WR41) The building superintendent, Roy Truly, told writer William Manchester (Manchester, pp. 132-133),
"Except for my niggers the boys are conservative, like me -- like most Texans."
-
maybe Harold Norman heard the sound of a semi auto rifle:
Boom... plink plink and heard the 3 shots fired in 4 secs like he demonstrated consistently every interview and as he described the sequence:
1.Was looking at JFK when heard 1st shot
2.Saw JFK slump
3. Heard 2 more shots after that
4. Estimates all 3 shots fired in about 4 sec and certainly NOT spread out over 8.3 or more secs
-
maybe Harold Norman heard the sound of a semi auto rifle:
Boom... plink plink and heard the 3 shots fired in 4 secs like he demonstrated consistently every interview and as he described the sequence:
1.Was looking at JFK when heard 1st shot
2.Saw JFK slump
3. Heard 2 more shots after that
4. Estimates all 3 shots fired in about 4 sec and certainly NOT spread out over 8.3 or more secs
maybe Harold Norman heard the sound of a semi auto rifle:
Wonderful!..... Now where's the semi auto 6.5 mm rifle that ejected the shell's that were clearly stamped 6.5mm carc ??
-
Semi-auto??? WTF.. Okay...give me a Carcano that is semi-auto and I'll buy that (doesn't exist)...or.... Give me another gun that is semi-auto....(maybe a Smith & Wesson and that's a BIG MAYBE,....OR a Military issue weapon....or....a civilian issue Winchester or any other American issue rifle. Either way....this just doesn't add up. Unless it's Military issue. Then.....we have to look at this differently.
-
Tom Aleya said he saw Fritz pick up
ALL the shells and place them in his pocket
Then some time later, Alexa saw “a detective “ (ie NOT Fritz) throw shells back on the ground
Can’t find any camera footage from Tom Aleys film showing close up view of shells at the SN
The rifle under the pallet seen by Weitzman may not be the same rifle filmed being lifted by Lt. Day some 18 minutes after the 1:22 time stamp by Boone ( and subsequent still photos )
-
Tom Aleya said he saw Fritz pick up
ALL the shells and place them in his pocket
Then some time later, Alexa saw “a detective “ (ie NOT Fritz) throw shells back on the ground
Can’t find any camera footage from Tom Aleys film showing close up view of shells at the SN
The rifle under the pallet seen by Weitzman may not be the same rifle filmed being lifted by Lt. Day some 18 minutes after the 1:22 time stamp by Boone ( and subsequent still photos )
The rifle under the pallet seen by Weitzman may not be the same rifle filmed being lifted by Lt. Day some 18 minutes after the 1:22 time stamp by Boone ( and subsequent still photos )
Oh Boy, sigh......When will this nonsense stop??
-
One glance at the reply column reveals that I'm not venturing out where that novel Corona bug can bite me. And I've read all my books.....TV bores me, so I'm spending a lot of time here harassing the opposition. But I'd appreciate it if there was more good, intelligent, posts to respond to.
Like many, I have a lot of extra free time now, which I spend wisely on reading, modelling and playing Twilight in the East. And on a return to this fine Forum.
Let me try to respond to your request for "good, intelligent posts to respond to."
One, it seems fatal, flaw in the Oswald-the-patsy theory is that the entire cunning plan to murder the President collapses if the designated patsy fails to show up at the desired location on the day and time of the planned assassination.
So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.
Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?
-
Like many, I have a lot of extra free time now, which I spend wisely on reading, modelling and playing Twilight in the East. And on a return to this fine Forum.
Let me try to respond to your request for "good, intelligent posts to respond to."
One, it seems fatal, flaw in the Oswald-the-patsy theory is that the entire cunning plan to murder the President collapses if the designated patsy fails to show up at the desired location on the day and time of the planned assassination.
So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.
Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?
LISTEN.. This man is being falsely accused of a heinous crime ( murder) and he's angry. ( who wouldn't be?)
PS Lee snapped, " No sir, I don't "......What question was asked ??
-
LISTEN.. This man is being falsely accused of a heinous crime ( murder) and he's angry. ( who wouldn't be?)
PS Lee snapped, " No sir, I don't "......What question was asked ??
The reporter asked: "Do you have a lawyer?" To which Oswald replied: "No sir, I don't."
Was Oswald Mirandized properly? You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.
-
So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.
Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?
Well obviously a plan B didn’t happen, so how would anybody know?
Doesn’t Thomas Arthur Vallee in Chicago at least give you some pause?
-
The reporter asked: "Do you have a lawyer?" To which Oswald replied: "No sir, I don't."
Was Oswald Mirandized properly? You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you.
Miranda v Arizona was still 3 years away.
-
Miranda v Arizona was still 3 years away.
True..... There was no law that stated that a suspect must be told that he had the right to keep his mouth shut and refuse to answer any questions until he had an attorney to advise him..... But Lee Oswald would have known that because he knew about the Rosenbergs and the Smith act.
-
Well obviously a plan B didn’t happen, so how would anybody know?
Doesn’t Thomas Arthur Vallee in Chicago at least give you some pause?
How do you know Plan B didn't happen? Perhaps the murder of officer Tippit was part of it, as it seems to be of a more improvised nature than the assassination.
If there was a plot to kill the President, blaming some random dude for it must have been an integral part of it, like Milteer said.
Now, selecting Oswald as the patsy was a master stroke of genius, given his treacherous background, his Russian wife, his odd behaviour and lack of social skills etc. But in order to make it work Oswald has to show up for work, preferably carrying a long bulky package, and not be in the presence of others who can provide him with an alibi at the exact time of the shooting.
That's a shaky foundation for such an elaborate scheme. Therefore it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?
I don't know who this Vallee guy was you mentioned, but I will look him up - I think he is mentioned in JFK and the Unspeakable.
-
How do you know Plan B didn't happen? Perhaps the murder of officer Tippit was part of it, as it seems to be of a more improvised nature than the assassination.
If there was a plot to kill the President, blaming some random dude for it must have been an integral part of it, like Milteer said.
Now, selecting Oswald as the patsy was a master stroke of genius, given his treacherous background, his Russian wife, his odd behaviour and lack of social skills etc. But in order to make it work Oswald has to show up for work, preferably carrying a long bulky package, and not be in the presence of others who can provide him with an alibi at the exact time of the shooting.
That's a shaky foundation for such an elaborate scheme. Therefore it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?
I don't know who this Vallee guy was you mentioned, but I will look him up - I think he is mentioned in JFK and the Unspeakable.
Dallas was not a do or die try....They had tried in Chicago and failed, .....If Dallas had failed they would have tried again.
-
How do you know Plan B didn't happen? Perhaps the murder of officer Tippit was part of it, as it seems to be of a more improvised nature than the assassination.
If there was a plot to kill the President, blaming some random dude for it must have been an integral part of it, like Milteer said.
Now, selecting Oswald as the patsy was a master stroke of genius, given his treacherous background, his Russian wife, his odd behaviour and lack of social skills etc. But in order to make it work Oswald has to show up for work, preferably carrying a long bulky package, and not be in the presence of others who can provide him with an alibi at the exact time of the shooting.
That's a shaky foundation for such an elaborate scheme. Therefore it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?
I don't know who this Vallee guy was you mentioned, but I will look him up - I think he is mentioned in JFK and the Unspeakable.
"it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?"
Good question. Could there also have been a back-up paper trail, connected to the 7.65 Mauser Boone and Weitzman found, to connect the reserve patsy to the 6th floor and murder of JFK?
-
"it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?"
Good question. Could there also have been a back-up paper trail, connected to the 7.65 Mauser Boone and Weitzman found, to connect the reserve patsy to the 6th floor and murder of JFK?
Boone and Weitzman discovered a Mannlicher Carcano.....Not a 7.65 Mauser. Are you visually impaired?
-
How do you know Plan B didn't happen? Perhaps the murder of officer Tippit was part of it, as it seems to be of a more improvised nature than the assassination.
If there was a plot to kill the President, blaming some random dude for it must have been an integral part of it, like Milteer said.
Now, selecting Oswald as the patsy was a master stroke of genius, given his treacherous background, his Russian wife, his odd behaviour and lack of social skills etc. But in order to make it work Oswald has to show up for work, preferably carrying a long bulky package, and not be in the presence of others who can provide him with an alibi at the exact time of the shooting.
That's a shaky foundation for such an elaborate scheme. Therefore it seems logical and rational that a reserve patsy was on stand-by in the wings. Who was it?
I don't know who this Vallee guy was you mentioned, but I will look him up - I think he is mentioned in JFK and the Unspeakable.
selecting Oswald as the patsy was a master stroke of genius, Yes, Hoover was a diabolical genius when necessary.....
given his treacherous background, his Russian wife, his odd behaviour and lack of social skills
Who had been keeping tabs on Lee since he "defected to Russia" ???? That person would have known all of the above and had documents to prove it.
-
Boone and Weitzman discovered a Mannlicher Carcano.....Not a 7.65 Mauser. Are you visually impaired?
I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.
You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.
-
I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.
You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.
I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.
Are you referring to the affidavits that say .... The rifle "APPEARED TO BE" a 7.65 Mauser?
You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.
Of course you're limiting the photographic evidence to a single frame of Alyea's film..... When in fact there is more of his film which shows Detective Day holding the MANNLICHER CARCANO up in plain sight.....And there is more Alyea footage whish shows Detective Day dusting a MANNLICHER CARCANO looking for finger prints on the rifle, and then there are several photos of Detective Day carrying a MANNLICHER CARCANO on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD as he departs to take the CARCANO to the DPD crime lab.
-
I have affidavits and investigation reports from Boone and Weitzman saying they found a 7.65 Mauser.
Are you referring to the affidavits that say .... The rifle "APPEARED TO BE" a 7.65 Mauser?
You have a grainy black and white piece of film showing LT Day picking up what appears to be a Mannlicher Carcano.
Of course you're limiting the photographic evidence to a single frame of Alyea's film..... When in fact there is more of his film which shows Detective Day holding the MANNLICHER CARCANO up in plain sight.....And there is more Alyea footage whish shows Detective Day dusting a MANNLICHER CARCANO looking for finger prints on the rifle, and then there are several photos of Detective Day carrying a MANNLICHER CARCANO on the sidewalk in front of the TSBD as he departs to take the CARCANO to the DPD crime lab.
Play it again, Sam....
-
Vallee is intriguing because of the similarities to Oswald.
Both were former Marines who had served at bases in Japan that hosted the U2. Both had been involved with anti-Castro Cubans. Both had recently started jobs overlooking a presidential motorcade route. Both were accused of assassination plots. The FBI in Chicago was reportedly tipped off by an informant named "Lee".
-
Vallee is intriguing because of the similarities to Oswald.
Both were former Marines who had served at bases in Japan that hosted the U2. Both had been involved with anti-Castro Cubans. Both had recently started jobs overlooking a presidential motorcade route. Both were accused of assassination plots. The FBI in Chicago was reportedly tipped off by an informant named "Lee".
Then why did James Douglass "oversell" the Vallee story?
JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters - Page 203 books.google.com › books
J (https://books.google.com/books?id=KS-6XrdalGkC&pg=PA203&dq=james+douglass+31-10RF&hl=en&ppis=_c&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiI6c-AwdzoAhVjk-AKHT7DCgEQ6AEwAHoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=james%20douglass%2031-10RF&f=false)ames W. Douglass - 2010
FOUND INSIDE - PAGE 203
Why He Died and Why It Matters James W. Douglass ... license plate on the 1962 Ford Falcon he was driving: 31–10RF.151 A few days after President Kennedy's assassination, NBC News in Chicago learned about Vallee's arrest on the same ...
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldDouglassUnspeakableThomasArthurVallee.jpg)
http://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-assassination-plot-chicago
......
Edwin Black: ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’
The main source of information about the Chicago plot is an article by the investigative journalist, Edwin Black, ‘The Plot to Kill JFK in Chicago’, Chicago Independent, November 1975, which is available in various formats at:
scribd.com
archive.org
thechicagoplot.com
Black’s main source was a former Secret Service agent, Abraham Bolden, who was also interviewed by James Douglass for his book, JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters, Orbis Books, 2008; see pp.200–207, 213–217.
Abraham Bolden and the Secret Service
.......
The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigated Bolden’s account of events in Chicago. It pointed out that “no agent who had been assigned to Chicago confirmed any aspect of Bolden’s version”, which it found to be of “questionable authenticity” http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=69299 (HSCA Report, pp.231f).
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKbolden.htm
Abraham Bolden
....
....According to Bolden, the Chicago Secret Service office received a teletype from the FBI shortly before Kennedy's November 2 visit warning that an assassination attempt would be carried out in that city by a four-man Cuban hit squad armed with high-powered rifles. Bolden said the entire office was involved in this matter, but that it was kept top secret.
Years later, Bolden could not identify Vallee as a participant in this threat, and the belief among researchers is that Vallee played no part in the second assassination plan.....
On page #4 of a 1977 letter to Rep. Louis Stokes from Amos Peacock :
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/H%20Disk/Heacock%20Amos%20E/Item%2001.pdf
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldVallee1977LetterRepStokes.jpg)
Versus:
Church Committee asked for this document, in 1975, (two years before letter above) see bottom of page: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=148779&relPageId=2&search="chris_hester"
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&relPageId=50&search=nycpd_and%20larkin
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldValleeLicensePlate_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldValleeLicensePlate_2of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldValleeSchizo_1of2.jpg)
(http://jfkforum.com/images/OswaldValleeSchizo_2of2.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2#First_overflights_of_Communist_territory
..... The CIA told the president that the Soviets could not track high-altitude U-2 flights; this belief was based on studies using old Soviet radar systems and American systems that were not as effective at high altitudes as current Soviet systems, of which the U.S. was not aware. Knutson later said that "the U-2 was really quite invisible to American radar, but Russian radar were a little different – better, you might say". Although the Office of Scientific Intelligence issued a more cautious report in May 1956 that stated that detection was possible, it believed that the Soviets could not consistently track the aircraft. Dulles further told Eisenhower, according to presidential aide Andrew Goodpaster, that in any aircraft loss the pilot would almost certainly not survive. With such assurances and the growing demand for accurate intelligence regarding the alleged "bomber gap" between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, in June 1956 Eisenhower approved 10 days of overflights.[61][28]
The first U-2 overflight had already occurred, using existing authorization of air force overflights over Eastern Europe. On 20 June 1956, a U-2 flew over Poland and East Germany, with more flights on 2 July....
-
Then why did James Douglass "oversell" the Vallee story?
Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.
-
Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.
The book isn't that great.....IMO It's a rather boring book that doesn't reveal anything new.....
-
Don’t know. He didn’t consult me. I haven’t even read his book yet.
Dealey Plaza Echo, Volume 6, Issue 3
Current Section: A Rough Guide to Oswald Lookalikes (Part VI), by Mark Bridger
(Right column of page) Thomas Arthur Vallee
First page - 14 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=18&tab=page
page - 17 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=32&tab=page
Points out that Vallee was at Camp Otsu, likely at the base hospital, in 1951, later a U2 base like Atsugi.
page -25 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=29&tab=page
Describes FBI "freeze" on NY license plate number registration info request, bur does not add the information confirming the plate number was allegedly a NY registraton in the name of Vallee.
SEE: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62272&search=nycpd_and+larkin#relPageId=51&tab=page
Last pages - 26- https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=30&tab=page
- page 28 - https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16249&search=vallee_and+otsu#relPageId=32&tab=page
-
Like many, I have a lot of extra free time now, which I spend wisely on reading, modelling and playing Twilight in the East. And on a return to this fine Forum.
Let me try to respond to your request for "good, intelligent posts to respond to."
One, it seems fatal, flaw in the Oswald-the-patsy theory is that the entire cunning plan to murder the President collapses if the designated patsy fails to show up at the desired location on the day and time of the planned assassination.
So if Oswald had called in sick that day, or had been in hospital after a car accident while riding in Frazier's car, or for whatever other reason had NOT gone to the TSBD on November 22nd, 1963, the assassination would have to been called off or postponed. Unless there was a Plan B.
Was there? Who was the alternative patsy and were his credentials similar to Oswald's?
More than a few excellent points there, Mr. Van De Wiel, thanks for sharing.
In respect to an alternative patsy and/or a stable of potential patsies, we have to consider if Bonnie Ray Williams; Jack Dougherty and/or the man Marrion Baker encountered in his same day affidavit were cleverly lured/placed into position ---->
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
s/ M. L. Baker
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
The interesting thing here is we are left to wonder if the aforementioned individuals and their respective movements eliminated them as pasties ---->
Bonnie Ray Williams left his position on the sixth floor in a nick of time to join "Junior" Jarman and Harold Norman down on the 5th floor; Jack Dougherty left the upper floors, taking an elevator downstairs before the authorities arrived; and, when one considers the man Baker encounters above the 2nd floor, we know he isn't anyone established in Commission Exhibit 1381 (where all of the employees state their actual positions while actually viewing the presidential-parade, Yet the building-super' Roy Truly says the following about this fellow, quote, "I know that man, he works here."
Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.
The mystery here is two-fold: Who is this man? and, Was he lured in position upon the upper floors, but "saw the light" as things begin unfolding and got out of Dodge via the stairway where he encounters Baker? Did Truly, fearing this man would blow the whole plot out in the open, vouch for him in return for his silence? There's more to this case than a lone gunman with a satchel full of magic-bullets...
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
-
Question for Mr. Cakebread: Has actual research confirmed there was movements of boxes in the "sniper's nest" during an interval of time a couple of minutes after the shooting?
This sequence, timing would help eliminate the wrongly accused of being the individual(s) responsible for that movement if it actually occurred within that time frame. Your thoughts please...much obliged
-
Question for Mr. Cakebread: Has actual research confirmed there was movements of boxes in the "sniper's nest" during an interval of time a couple of minutes after the shooting?
This sequence, timing would help eliminate the wrongly accused of being the individual(s) responsible for that movement if it actually occurred within that time frame. Your thoughts please...much obliged
There have been several studies of the photos and the conclusion is the box on the window sill was moved in the thirty seconds between the photos.....
Of course this is utter nonsense because if someone was there in that window they would have been seen and photographed because the photographers attention was riveted on that window.
The truth is: The chronolggy between the Powell and Dillard photos has been reversed..... James Powell took his photo BEFORE Dillard took his photo. There was someone in that SE corner window when Powell took his photo a few minutes prior to the shooting.....And that person bumped the sill box after Powell had snapped the shutter, thus the box was in a different position when Tom Dillard snapped his photo DURING the shooting.
-
Thank You!, Mr. Cakebread, appreciate the prompt response.
One final question, taking into account Lillian Mooneyham's observations: She intimates she saw someone standing in the "sniper's nest" several minutes after the shooting. That said, Could a member of law enforcement have been the individual in trousers she saw that afternoon?
Would like to establish their response time, so I can rule the individual she saw as just a responding law enforcement individual, nothing more, nothing less...
unless of course, law enforcement did not arrive in that specific location within her several minute time-frame sighting. Thanks in advance for response...am on my way out to complete some weekend odds & ends. Will double-back here later today.
-
Okay, point well taken, Mr. Cakebread,
meanwhile, to your credit and/or to the credit of the first generation researchers, it has been established that Mr. Dillard's photos came before an Army Intelligence Agent James Powell's filming sequence ----->
During the HSCA in 77-78...the photographic panel, with reports prepared by Rochester Institute of Technology and the Stanford Research Inst.Inc. showed that the shadows on both Dillard and Powell were taken at the same approximate time...Though Dillard's two were made first..A major item revealed in the Dillard was a circular light fixture including a light bulb hanging from the ceiling of the 5th floor room ....there were no signs of any human faces or forms in the open 6th floor window or adjacent window.."Subsequent examinations of these photos ,the box locations and sunlight patterns would indicate that there is no inconsistency"
*Credit: the research of the late Bernice Moore (RIP Dear Lady)
That said, off here for now...will continue to pursue this line of research, but meanwhile wishing all a safe week and the best of health amid this ongoing pandemic challenge.
Study the shadows for yourself......And FWIW....I don't believe there were "Light bulbs hanging from the ceiling"..... A dangerous fire hazard in that old building full of combustible material.
-
More than a few excellent points there, Mr. Van De Wiel, thanks for sharing.
In respect to an alternative patsy and/or a stable of potential patsies, we have to consider if Bonnie Ray Williams; Jack Dougherty and/or the man Marrion Baker encountered in his same day affidavit were cleverly lured/placed into position ---->
AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT
THE STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF DALLAS
BEFORE ME, Mary Rattan, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared M. L. Baker, Patrolman Dallas Police Department who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says:
Friday November 22, 1963 I was riding motorcycle escort for the President of the United States. At approximately 12:30 pm I was on Houston Street and the President's car had made a left turn from Houston onto Elm Street. Just as I approached Elm Street and Houston I heard three shots. I realized those shots were rifle shots and I began to try to figure out where they came from. I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building. As I entered the door I saw several people standing around. I asked these people where the stairs were. A man stepped forward and stated he was the building manager and that he would show me where the stairs were. I followed the man to the rear of the building and he said, "Let's take the elevator." The elevator was hung several floors up so we used the stairs instead. As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor. The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5'9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.
s/ M. L. Baker
SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963
/s/ Mary Rattan
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas
The interesting thing here is we are left to wonder if the aforementioned individuals and their respective movements eliminated them as pasties ---->
Bonnie Ray Williams left his position on the sixth floor in a nick of time to join "Junior" Jarman and Harold Norman down on the 5th floor; Jack Dougherty left the upper floors, taking an elevator downstairs before the authorities arrived; and, when one considers the man Baker encounters above the 2nd floor, we know he isn't anyone established in Commission Exhibit 1381 (where all of the employees state their actual positions while actually viewing the presidential-parade, Yet the building-super' Roy Truly says the following about this fellow, quote, "I know that man, he works here."
Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.
The mystery here is two-fold: Who is this man? and, Was he lured in position upon the upper floors, but "saw the light" as things begin unfolding and got out of Dodge via the stairway where he encounters Baker? Did Truly, fearing this man would blow the whole plot out in the open, vouch for him in return for his silence? There's more to this case than a lone gunman with a satchel full of magic-bullets...
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.
Was the lunchroom brightly illuminated?
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
What was Baker recalling in his minds eye??..... The lunchroom was not "dim in there"........
-
Thank You!, Mr. Cakebread, appreciate the prompt response.
One final question, taking into account Lillian Mooneyham's observations: She intimates she saw someone standing in the "sniper's nest" several minutes after the shooting. That said, Could a member of law enforcement have been the individual in trousers she saw that afternoon?
Would like to establish their response time, so I can rule the individual she saw as just a responding law enforcement individual, nothing more, nothing less...
unless of course, law enforcement did not arrive in that specific location within her several minute time-frame sighting. Thanks in advance for response...am on my way out to complete some weekend odds & ends. Will double-back here later today.
How long is " several minutes" ? How much time elapsed after the shooting to the point where Lillian saw a man standing in the SN window?
I doubt that any Law enforcement officer was "standing in that window" any sooner than about thirty minutes after the shooting. I believe that Mooney was the first law enforcement officer at that window. And he was there at about 1:00pm .... But he left the window and went to the seventh floor before deciding to reurn to the sixth floor.....and then he discovered the spent shells.....at about 1:06. ( I wonder if he put the shells there on his first visit so he could "discover" them on his second visit???
-
Critical-thinkers know this encounter wasn't with the wrongly accused, because this man according to Baker in his same day affidavit wrote, quote, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. Major difference between walking away from a stairway and the inside of a lunchroom.
Was the lunchroom brightly illuminated?
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice what clothes the man was wearing as he came up to you?
Mr. BAKER - At that particular time I was looking at his face, and it seemed to me like he had a light brown jacket on and maybe some kind of white-looking shirt.
Anyway, as I noticed him walking away from me, it was kind of dim in there that particular day, and it was hanging out to his side.
What was Baker recalling in his minds eye??..... The lunchroom was not "dim in there"........
You illustrate an excellent point there, Mr. Cakebread, considering it goes without saying that the 2nd floor lunchroom was a great source of light, where the executives of each respective publishing company within the building & their administrative staff/employees made great use of it on a daily basis. This would be the last place dimly lit.
To his credit, I believe Marion Baker laced some of his testimony with the actual truth of his genuine experience that afternoon, but following his same day affidavit of that truth, he found himself the next day pulled into an "official" version of events hastily contrived to frame an innocent party.
In the exchange you shared above, Baker was recalling in his mind's eye his & Roy Truly's initial sighting of the wrongly accused near the dimly lit storage room right there on the first floor (of course, given his orders to follow his 2nd day script, Baker could only share what he saw but limited to where he actually saw it).
Lest we forget, by the 2nd day Baker was now force to add that he and Roy Truly had gone to the roof-top for between 5-10 minutes. Yet in the following affidavit I discovered, we find access to the roof was locked on the afternoon of the shooting ---->
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy
Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 86071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back to the building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs.
The tandem of Baker & Truly, according to their testimony, went up to the roof (for 5-10 minutes, more about that lie as we read further along), Yet here we have a Sheriff's Deputy a couple of minutes behind on their heels finding the roof locked from the inside. Something else that runs contrary to the tandem's roof exploits is the following testimony exchange of Inspector Sawyer ---->
Mr. BELIN. You got to the elevator, went up, looked around back there. How long did you spend up there at the top floor that the elevator took you to?
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Baker made the mistake of saying in his testimony that he saw Inspector Sawyer while at the same time interval he is supposed to be spending 5-10 minutes on the roof, yet as we see Mr. Sawyer's three minute timeline interval exposes either one or two things: Baker wasn't on the rooftop as he said, or he lied about seeing Sawyer when he said he did. Even more damaging to the tandem's tall-tale about their exploits upon the roof is the following ---->
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134&search=ladder_AND+roof#relPageId=496&tab=page
Note that well after the tandem said they were on the roof, the document reveals that the roof is inaccessible.
Why they are lying is anyone's guess. To account for their actions otherwise to the contrary of their script?
I agree someone planted those shell casings in the southeast corner of the sixth floor to stage a 'sniper's nest". I will do more reading to rule in the possibility of your choice, Mr. Cakebread, but my choice--given the following Freudian slip--Roy Truly was the individual Lillian Mooneyham saw ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly accused was framed by a hastily contrived script.
-
You illustrate an excellent point there, Mr. Cakebread, considering it goes without saying that the 2nd floor lunchroom was a great source of light, where the executives of each respective publishing company within the building & their administrative staff/employees made great use of it on a daily basis. This would be the last place dimly lit.
To his credit, I believe Marion Baker laced some of his testimony with the actual truth of his genuine experience that afternoon, but following his same day affidavit of that truth, he found himself the next day pulled into an "official" version of events hastily contrived to frame an innocent party.
In the exchange you shared above, Baker was recalling in his mind's eye his & Roy Truly's initial sighting of the wrongly accused near the dimly lit storage room right there on the first floor (of course, given his orders to follow his 2nd day script, Baker could only share what he saw but limited to where he actually saw it).
Lest we forget, by the 2nd day Baker was now force to add that he and Roy Truly had gone to the roof-top for between 5-10 minutes. Yet in the following affidavit I discovered, we find access to the roof was locked on the afternoon of the shooting ---->
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy
Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 86071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back to the building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs.
The tandem of Baker & Truly, according to their testimony, went up to the roof (for 5-10 minutes, more about that lie as we read further along), Yet here we have a Sheriff's Deputy a couple of minutes behind on their heels finding the roof locked from the inside. Something else that runs contrary to the tandem's roof exploits is the following testimony exchange of Inspector Sawyer ---->
Mr. BELIN. You got to the elevator, went up, looked around back there. How long did you spend up there at the top floor that the elevator took you to?
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.
Baker made the mistake of saying in his testimony that he saw Inspector Sawyer while at the same time interval he is supposed to be spending 5-10 minutes on the roof, yet as we see Mr. Sawyer's three minute timeline interval exposes either one or two things: Baker wasn't on the rooftop as he said, or he lied about seeing Sawyer when he said he did. Even more damaging to the tandem's tall-tale about their exploits upon the roof is the following ---->
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134&search=ladder_AND+roof#relPageId=496&tab=page
Note that well after the tandem said they were on the roof, the document reveals that the roof is inaccessible.
Why they are lying is anyone's guess. To account for their actions otherwise to the contrary of their script?
I agree someone planted those shell casings in the southeast corner of the sixth floor to stage a 'sniper's nest". I will do more reading to rule in the possibility of your choice, Mr. Cakebread, but my choice--given the following Freudian slip--Roy Truly was the individual Lillian Mooneyham saw ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly accused was framed by a hastily script.
In the exchange you shared above, Baker was recalling in his mind's eye his & Roy Truly's initial sighting of the wrongly accused near the dimly lit storage room right there on the first floor
No that's not correct...Baker was talking about seeing the man ( who was trying to duck out of sight ) by walking away from the stairway .....The man was over near the elevators in a dimly lit area.....
-
Who was the man trying to duck out of sight?
-
Who was the man trying to duck out of sight?
Who was the man trying to duck out of sight?
THAT, ....Is the 64 M dollar question....... I do know that Roy Truly told Baker that he was one of his employees..... And we do know that Jack Dougherty was in that vicinity..... And we know that Dougherty was panic struck when he appeared before the WC..... ( He was one of the few who had a lawyer at his elbow )
Roy Truly covered for Dougherty by saying that Dougherty had some sort of mental affliction. Hmmmmm..... Dougherty served in the US Army.... So he had to have passed physical and mental tests.....
-
He was one of the few who had a lawyer at his elbow
I didn't know Dougherty had a lawyer with him. I wonder who suggested that for him.
-
I didn't know Dougherty had a lawyer with him. I wonder who suggested that for him.
As I recall ....Dougherty had his father with him, and his father had a lawyer .... Perhaps you can verify that.
-
As I recall ....Dougherty had his father with him, and his father had a lawyer .... Perhaps you can verify that.
The fact he had his father with him says alot.
-
Says to me that he was "scared" by someone and that his father had enough sense to get legal help. Who among us wouldn't do the same with our son? I've always said, when you're in legal trouble, shut your mouth and get a lawyer. Best advise you'll ever get. Unfortunately, LHO didn't get the same help. Why was that? That's he real 64 Millon dollar question Walt.
-
Says to me that he was "scared" by someone and that his father had enough sense to get legal help. Who among us wouldn't do the same with our son? I've always said, when you're in legal trouble, shut your mouth and get a lawyer. Best advise you'll ever get. Unfortunately, LHO didn't get the same help. Why was that? That's he real 64 Millon dollar question Walt.
LHO didn't get the same help. Why was that? That's he real 64 Millon dollar question Walt.
Lee was an intel agent.... And he'd been ordered to use only lawyers approve by the agency if he ever found himself in serious trouble.....You may recall that Lee was offered an ACLU lawyer but he insisted on a Lawyer named Abt who lived in New York. He called Ruth Paine and asked her to contact Abt and tell him that Lee was requesting that he ( Abt) come to his legal aid) Recall Lee emphasized for SOMEONE come to his legal aid at the midnight "press conference"....
Lee couldn't blow his cover and jeopardize ongoing operations by talking to a lawyer who was unaware that he was an intel agent.
Do I get the 64 M?
-
The checks in the mail. LOL
-
The checks in the mail. LOL
Where have I heard that, before?........