A Better Sequence (TM DVP)

[Walt Cakebread]

None of what I posted about precludes it Walt. I made no mention of what you describe about the arrangement of boxes.

The configuration of the boxes behind the SE window most certainly DO preclude ( make impossible) the scenario of a man up next to the window ( as would have been necessary for a 40 inch long rifle to protrude out of the window so witnesses could report seeing it.   The TSBD walls are over two feet thick and the cement ledge beneath the window extends another 4 inches out from the face of the building.....

PS... On page 536 of Pictures of the Pain there is a photo of Detective Studebaker behind the sixth floor window that illustrates perfectly the point I'm attempting to make.  The photo was taken from near where Howard Brennan was located at the time of the murder.   Studebaker is shown bent over at the waist as he photographs the interior SE corner of the sixth floor, (near the pipes beside the window )   The photo illustrates perfectly the impossibility of a gunman  STANDING and aiming a rifle from that window.     

[Alan Hardaker]

The configuration of the boxes behind the SE window most certainly DO preclude ( make impossible) the scenario of a man up next to the window ( as would have been necessary for a 40 inch long rifle to protrude out of the window so witnesses could report seeing it.   The TSBD walls are over two feet thick and the cement ledge beneath the window extends another 4 inches out from the face of the building.....

Surely any sniper would just move the boxes back enough so that the rifle is not protruding so far out. Doesn't seem beyond a fit,active determined sniper to arrange the boxes in such a way as to make it possible to fire.

[Walt Cakebread]

Surely any sniper would just move the boxes back enough so that the rifle is not protruding so far out. Doesn't seem beyond a fit,active determined sniper to arrange the boxes in such a way as to make it possible to fire.

Huh??   The crime scene photos show that the boxes were in the way ( prevented anybody from getting up to the window)  And the WC in their imaginary scenario said that Lee Harrrrvey Osssswald ( boooo Hissss) depated immediately so that he arrived at the 2nd floor lunchroom just 1 second ahead of officer Baker...

[Alan Hardaker]

Huh??   The crime scene photos show that the boxes were in the way ( prevented anybody from getting up to the window)  And the WC in their imaginary scenario said that Lee Harrrrvey Osssswald ( boooo Hissss) depated immediately so that he arrived at the 2nd floor lunchroom just 1 second ahead of officer Baker...

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/SN/intro.htm

If your referring to this photo, on the face of it, it does look a bit cramped but there is room at the far end of the stacks for any person to position themselves with a bit of configuring and dexterity.

[John Iacoletti]

My own veiw is that Oswald was on the 6th floor and he did willfully assassinate JFK. It's not a open & shut case against Oswald but there is more than enough evidence to get a conviction.IMO.

You’re entitled to it. IMO what little evidence there is, is weak, circumstantial, and tainted in some way and doesn’t come close to meeting a reasonable doubt standard.

[Walt Cakebread]

You’re entitled to it. IMO what little evidence there is, is weak. circumstantial, and taunted in some way and doesn’t come close to meeting a reasonable doubt standard.

IMO there is not a single piece of evidence that can indisputably link Lee to the murder of JFK....

[Jack Nessan]

The facts are that Rowland sighted a man with a gun in the SW window at 12.15pm. He told his wife of this and he reported it to authorities immediately after the shots. Do you really believe that he was after 15 minutes of fame? Was he clairvoyant? What the WC did to him was shameless. He correctly reported under oath that he saw a black man in the SN until about 12.25. This is the precise time that Williams left the SN. He said he paid little attention to the man. How would he know the 6th floor was an open area and not a series of rooms from his position? We know Williams was there because his chicken lunch was found there and reported as such by 9 officers first on the scene.

The WC knew Williams was on the floor after lunch and yet only obtained photos of West and Piper, both of them were on the first floor at the relevant time......no photo of Williams.

Such hypocrisy for those who target Rowland yet believe Givens, who did not report the cigarette trip sighting of Oswald until he testified. Jarman and Norman told authorities that Williams went with them in the elevator to the 5th floor consistently until their WC changed the story. Williams changed his story repeatedly in every recounting of it.

The irony of all this is it does not preclude Oswald as the assassin per se.....yet WC supporters are unable to comprehend a scenario that has him occupy the SN just 5 minutes before the shots...why is that?

The irony of all this is it does not preclude Oswald as the assassin per se.....yet WC supporters are unable to comprehend a scenario that has him occupy the SN just 5 minutes before the shots...why is that?

Because BRW wasn't ever in the SN. The irony of it all, to even believe this theory you must believe LHO was the assassin because under this scenario BRW would have obviously have known and been friendly with the person who was in the SN----- Oswald. The problem with it is BRW had no clue as to who was firing above him.

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Such hypocrisy for those who target Rowland yet believe Givens,

Hypocrisy is glossing over a great deal of fabricated testimony by Rowland  and then comparing it to Given's stating he saw LHO on the 6th floor with his clipboard. Oswald is a real person. Rowland is describing a fictional character completely conjured up in his imagination. Rowland never told a soul about a second person in the SN until he shows up in front of the WC,  yet Givens is villified for doing the same. Given's statement was also made under oath but it is stated he was not telling the truth.

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He correctly reported under oath that he saw a black man in the SN until about 12.25.

Arnold Rowland never told anyone there was a second person in the Sniper's Nest. Not one person. Despite endless opportunities he never told the DPD, he never told the Sheriff's Dept, he never told the FBI, he never told the Secret Service, he never told Roger Craig, and he never said a single word to his wife Barbara Rowland about a second gunman being in the Snipers Nest. What he did was make up a story developed from countless trips to Dealey Plaza where he stared at the TSBD and reconstructed the assassination in his mind. He finally convinced himself of something that wasn't true and then stated it to the Warren Commission. Fortunately Barbara Rowland had a sense of History and refused to support Arnold's assertion of an additional person in the Sniper's Nest.

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The WC knew Williams was on the floor after lunch and yet only obtained photos of West and Piper, both of them were on the first floor at the relevant time......no photo of Williams.

Why would they? At no point in time could the description Rowland gave of this second person be misconstrued to have been BRW. Typical of Rowland's testimony the story grows as he is telling and embellishing  it. Rowland's description of an old Negro with a wrinkled face is not a description of a twenty something BRW.

FIRST DESCRIPTION
Mr. ROWLAND - At the time I saw the man in the other window, I saw this man hanging out the window first. It was a colored man, I think.

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SECOND DESCRIPTION
Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe with as much particularity as you can what that man looked like?
Mr. ROWLAND - It seemed to me an elderly Negro, that is about all. I didn't pay very much attention to him.

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THE GRAND FINALE DESCRIPTION
Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Rowland, a couple of other questions.
Are you able to give us any other type of a description of the Negro gentleman whom you observed in the window we marked "A" with respect to height, weight, age?
Mr. ROWLAND - He was very thin, an elderly gentleman, bald or practically bald, very thin hair if he wasn't bald. Had on a plaid shirt. I think it was red and green, very bright color, that is why I remember it.
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us an estimate as to age?
Mr. ROWLAND - Fifty; possibly 55 or 60.
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us an estimate as to height?
Mr. ROWLAND - 5'8", 5'10", in that neighborhood. He was very slender, very thin.
Mr. SPECTER - Can you give us a more definite description as to complexion?
Mr. ROWLAND - Very dark or fairly dark, not real dark compared to some Negroes, but fairly dark. Seemed like his face was either--I can't recall detail but it was either very wrinkled or marked in some way.


Wow, he does it again. He went from Zero to Mach 1 and completely describes this person including wrinkles on his face. Great witness why wouldn't you believe him. Even his height, on a man "hanging" out of a window.
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What the WC did to him was shameless.

What Rowland did was shameless.

 The WC did not need to speak to Rowland's wife. Rowland's own testimony proved you can not believe a word he said. Which one of his listed fabrications is wrong? They knew he was full of it from the moment he told then he was at the eye doctor and his eyesight was better then 20/20. Why was he even at the eye doctor?

Where is Rowland's descriptions of the other person described by Brennan ? All the descriptions of the person in the SN. Not one of them is a description of BRW. Where is his description of the shooter? He said he was supposedly looking back every few seconds. Brennan gave a description of the shooter so obviously he was visible. He mentioned seeing the wrinkles on the second persons face. Stated he was older. Somehow he knows he is tall and slender. How could he possibly know that? Like his description of the man with a rifle Rowland does not know the window is only 14 inches off the floor, but he describes the person with the belief they are normal configured windows.
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He told his wife of this and he reported it to authorities immediately after the shots.

He supposedly told Roger Craig. Why not post Roger Craig's testimony about this very subject? Is it because it in no manner resembles Rowland's and yet he is trying to support Rowland's fabricated account. Craig, another witness also under oath, describes to the WC two white men but both in the SW corner of the 6th floor not the SE corner.