First shot reactions

[Brian Roselle]

Good find Charles. Tina Towner apparently stopped her filming in front of the TSBD in perhaps just under 1 second before Z133 started.  If she recalled the shot happening within about a second just after stopping filming, this would put the limo in the same position as the last anchored testimony study I looked at, which placed the limo position at the time of the first shot in a position it would have been about ½ second before z133.

Related to first shot reactions, one can independently look at Dorman’s filming in front of the TSBD at this time. I think Charles also commented on Dorman earlier in the thread, but this link may help visualize having a synchronized video to the Zapruder film for reference. It also has the video with a superimposed shot ½ second before z133 which to me appeared very telling. Make sure your audio is turned up to hear the background sounds.

https://sites.google.com/view/dorman-zapruder-sync-on-elm-st/home

sites.google.com/view/dorman-zapruder-sync-on-elm-st/home

[Royell Storing]

Andrew Mason suggested Hickey was partially standing. This is my 3D interpretation.

(TinyPic is closing this year (2019) so this image may not be appearing

Maybe his feet are braced against the jump-seat in front of him.



Is Hickey higher up here? He's in the background holding the Colt AR-15. Maybe he's seated on the top of the seat-back.



The other agent (Bennett) can be compared with this photo, allowing for Bennett's forward lean).

    Again, SA Hickey's high seated position inside the Queen Mary is evident as the car traveled down Houston St. This makes it clear that he was in this elevated position for an extended period of time. It is also apparent that he was Not sitting on the seat back/top of the trunk. Remember, the AR-15 was locked and loaded on the floor board in front of Hickey. This would have impeded Hickey from putting his feet onto the rear of the jump seat in front of him. Well, unless Hickey had his feet placed 3 feet high up the back of the jump seat. Highly unlikely, as well as being Highly Uncomfortable for Hickey to do this. Positioning his feet that High up the jump seat in front of him would have pushed Hickey Backward, Not UPward. Just a guess on my part, but I think SA Hickey was sitting on Top of something situated on the back seat. Probably something connected to the AR-15 laying on the floorboard only a few feet away.

[Charles Collins]

Good find Charles. Tina Towner apparently stopped her filming in front of the TSBD in perhaps just under 1 second before Z133 started.  If she recalled the shot happening within about a second just after stopping filming, this would put the limo in the same position as the last anchored testimony study I looked at, which placed the limo position at the time of the first shot in a position it would have been about ½ second before z133.

Related to first shot reactions, one can independently look at Dorman’s filming in front of the TSBD at this time. I think Charles also commented on Dorman earlier in the thread, but this link may help visualize having a synchronized video to the Zapruder film for reference. It also has the video with a superimposed shot ½ second before z133 which to me appeared very telling. Make sure your audio is turned up to hear the background sounds.

https://sites.google.com/view/dorman-zapruder-sync-on-elm-st/home

sites.google.com/view/dorman-zapruder-sync-on-elm-st/home

It appears that you and I have come to the same conclusions  (independently) based on the same evidence. And that is a good thing because it tends to confirm each other’s work. I haven’t had any luck viewing the video yet. But the description tells me what it is going to show. Thanks for posting it.

[Andrew Mason]

In her book Tina Towner, page 7, she states: “ ...but there was not enough time before the first gunshot sounded—only a second or two, if that, after I stopped filming.”

I believe I have seen a video in which she said that the first shot sounded just about the time that she stopped filming. I don’t remember which video. But I will point it out if I come across it again.

Regardless, she didn’t time it with a stopwatch.

She did not time it with a stopwatch. True.  But if she thought it was somewhat longer than one or two, that fits with what about 25 other witnesses said.  If it was one or two seconds, it conflicts with those 25 witnesses. 

I raised this in some discussions on the newsgroup in 2007 about the time of the first shot.  Gary Mack replied with this email in which he stated:

Andrew,

I've known Tina Towner since 1978 and my memory has been that she said
the first shot came just a second or two after she stopped filming.
However, in a March 30, 1996 oral history, Tina said it was four to six
seconds.  So either I have misremembered, which is possible, or her
memory has changed.

What's important is that she stopped filming some seconds before the
shots were fired.  That eliminates the early shot theory held by Max and
Johann.

....

Gary Mack

(the last two paragraphs omitted deal with Croft's statement to Richard Trask that after taking his z162 photo he had time to rewind his camera and run down the street and take another photo which he said was taken at the moment of the first shot. Unfortunately, it turned out blank.)

I have not seen Tina Towner's  March 30, 1996 oral history which is in the Sixth Floor Museum but I am assuming that Gary Mack's account of what she says is accurate.  The 4 to 6 seconds also fits with what she told Trask - that she was getting ready to leave after she stopped filming when she heard the first shot. 

[Andrew Mason]

...


Is Hickey higher up here? He's in the background holding the Colt AR-15. Maybe he's seated on the top of the seat-back.

Yes. That appears to be SA McIntyre in front of him. McIntyre made the trip to Parkland.

The other agent (Bennett) can be compared with this photo, allowing for Bennett's forward lean).

Bennett on the right rear seat is lower than Hickey. This is seen in Betzner (z186) and Willis no. 5. but both are somewhat higher than the occupants of the jump seats (Ken O'Donnell and David Powers).

[Brian Roselle]

It appears that you and I have come to the same conclusions  (independently) based on the same evidence. And that is a good thing because it tends to confirm each other’s work. I haven’t had any luck viewing the video yet. But the description tells me what it is going to show. Thanks for posting it.

Yes, I think we’re thinking along the same wavelength here. That’s good.

I’m not doing much now on the first shot, but I believe there is still information out there to be mined that supports this, and you may likely find more.  I actually haven’t been real active on any research recently, but when I’ve found some time I have been looking at some “back and to the left” stuff.

Keep up the good research!

[Royell Storing]

Before Main Street

On Main Street

On Main Street

Hickey is seated normally until late on Main Street. He then repositions to how he appears in Dealey Plaza.

Hickey said: "I did this and had the ammunition clip inserted in the rifle and placed the rifle within easy reach of me." He's hardly going to put it flat on the floor if it has to be "within easy reach". Probably had it vertical and secured between the seat and inside of the car. He said: "I reached to the bottom of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle" can't be taken literal.

Why three feet high? You think the AR-15 was a cannon?

Early Part of Motorcade

On Main Street

Just that when Hickey isn't partially standing, he's seated at a normal height.

The AR-15 was normally kept in a storage are behind the front seat that was accessible to the rear compartment.

   SA Hickey filed an Original Report and You claim it "can't be taken literal"?? He's a trained SS Agent and filing an official assassination document for posterity. He reported he reached to the, "BOTTOM of the car and picked up the AR 15 rifle". Based on Hickey's report, there is No denying that he reached Down to the Floorboard of the Queen Mary.
    Do Not forget about the Drive Shaft Hump running along the floorboard of the Queen Mary. This would alter the level/height at which the weapon was situated on the floorboard = the elevation of the feet/legs of Hickey