Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Colin Crow]

I have.

Where did you get the idea that he "definitely identified both Jarman and Norman"?

Mr. BELIN. I believe that you testified that you thought you recognized two of the people that you saw looking out of the fifth floor of the School Book Depository Building you thought you recognized outside of the building sometime after the assassination, is that correct?
The two people that you saw, are they any of these three people here?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. I believe it is the one on the end and this one here, I am not sure.
Mr. BELIN. By that you would mean--
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't know which of those two.
Mr. BALL. Let's identify.
Mr. BELIN. Which person do you mean, you mean Mr. Norman sitting opposite?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; I believe he was one of them.
Mr. BELIN. And you believe it was Mr. Jarman together?
Mr. BRENNAN. Jarman.
Mr. BELIN. Were they with some policeman as they came out of the building or in custody of some plainclothesman?
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't believe they were.
Mr. BELIN. You saw them together come out of the building?
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't believe they were. I don't recall seeing any officer bring them out or with them.
Mr. BELIN. Now you do not believe then that it was Mr. Williams?
Mr. BRENNAN. No; I won't say for sure. I can't tell which of those two it was.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, you say that you can't, when you say you can't tell whether it was Mr. Williams or Mr. Norman, did you just see one person or two?
Mr. BRENNAN. I saw two but I can't identify which one it was.
Mr. BELIN. Could it have been neither one of these persons that you saw?
Mr. BRENNAN. I think it was one of them. I think it was this boy on the end.
Mr. BELIN. You thought it was Mr. Norman. And what about Mr. Jarman?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe it was him, too. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. BALL. I don't know.
Mr. BRENNAN. I explained that to you this morning.
Mr. BALL. I understand.

John, please see my thread here discussing this....

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1712.0.html

[Oscar Navarro]

And I posted this response the same day......

"The salient point is it establishes when Brennan could begin to observe the TSBD. I gather you understand that is his significance as a witness. Don't you? He saw stuff happening.....we are establishing when he might have seen that stuff.....with some degree of accuracy using the ambulance references in the transcripts. Not his vague recollection of an estimated time. He saw a clock at 12.16pm. He also saw them pick up the man. I assume "them" refers to the ambulance staff. Unless you know of anyone else who "picked up the man". We know when that happened by cross reference to the transcripts.

As for my theory......you did well until point 1) after that you failed to summarise accurately. Sorry. Point 2 is incorrect from the information we have at hand that I explained previously.

Find out what we can agree on. Do you agree or disagree that Williams first day statement indicates he did not got back to the 6th floor but went with Jarman and Norman and "just after" they got there they saw the motorcade pass. Does this sound like around 12.25pm to you for their arrival? It was only a couple of hours since the assassination when he wrote that."

if you are going to summarise someone?s theory at least get it right. Perhaps go back and read the original statements and work out why you think the planned deception started after they were taken in for questioning and not before.

Ah! So you think the Jarman, Norman and BRW coverup/deception began before they were taken in for questioning. Then I'm sure you can answer;

A) Why did the narrative change during the WC testimony to reflect that BRW had not walked together with Norman and Jarman to the fifth floor
 

[Colin Crow]

Ah! So you think the Jarman, Norman and BRW coverup/deception began before they were taken in for questioning. Then I'm sure you can answer;

A) Why did the narrative change during the WC testimony to reflect that BRW had not walked together with Norman and Jarman to the fifth floor

Because the conflicting statements were "sorted" by Belin and Ball during their visit to Dallas just days before the WC testimonies were taken. Have you seen the Ball/Belin internal memo to Willens of March 18 (from memory)? They posed some of the same questions I have......they had access to the same statements. They were not dumb.

[Oscar Navarro]

I have.

Where did you get the idea that he "definitely identified both Jarman and Norman"?

Mr. BELIN. I believe that you testified that you thought you recognized two of the people that you saw looking out of the fifth floor of the School Book Depository Building you thought you recognized outside of the building sometime after the assassination, is that correct?
The two people that you saw, are they any of these three people here?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. I believe it is the one on the end and this one here, I am not sure.
Mr. BELIN. By that you would mean--
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't know which of those two.
Mr. BALL. Let's identify.
Mr. BELIN. Which person do you mean, you mean Mr. Norman sitting opposite?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes; I believe he was one of them.
Mr. BELIN. And you believe it was Mr. Jarman together?
Mr. BRENNAN. Jarman.
Mr. BELIN. Were they with some policeman as they came out of the building or in custody of some plainclothesman?
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't believe they were.
Mr. BELIN. You saw them together come out of the building?
Mr. BRENNAN. I don't believe they were. I don't recall seeing any officer bring them out or with them.
Mr. BELIN. Now you do not believe then that it was Mr. Williams?
Mr. BRENNAN. No; I won't say for sure. I can't tell which of those two it was.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, you say that you can't, when you say you can't tell whether it was Mr. Williams or Mr. Norman, did you just see one person or two?
Mr. BRENNAN. I saw two but I can't identify which one it was.
Mr. BELIN. Could it have been neither one of these persons that you saw?
Mr. BRENNAN. I think it was one of them. I think it was this boy on the end.
Mr. BELIN. You thought it was Mr. Norman. And what about Mr. Jarman?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe it was him, too. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. BALL. I don't know.
Mr. BRENNAN. I explained that to you this morning.
Mr. BALL. I understand.

That's the part of Brennan's testimony that convinced both Belin and Ball that Brennan could identify Oswald. The major factor was that neither Norman or Jarman had yet to give their WC testimony so there was no way of Ball and Belin knowing they were the ones that saw Brennan in front of the TSBD. When Brennan said "I explained that to you this morning" he was referring to his opinion that he would not be able to tell blacks apart (or something to that effect) until the morning of the 22nd but Brennan did not want to repeat that in front of BRW, Jarman and Norman.

[Oscar Navarro]

Because the conflicting statements were "sorted" by Belin and Ball during their visit to Dallas just days before the WC testimonies were taken. Have you seen the Ball/Belin internal memo to Willens of March 18 (from memory)? They posed some of the same questions I have......they had access to the same statements. They were not dumb.

NSS! All the assistant counsel had access to every statement given by the witnesses and other witnesses related to the particular subject before their testimony. The purpose of the witness testimony before the WC and associate counsel was to get the full story and to question the witnesses of any inconsistencies and/or omissions.

[Colin Crow]

And where were Jarman and Norman questioned by the WC about their previous statements that indicated Williams went up with them........pfft

[Colin Crow]

That's the part of Brennan's testimony that convinced both Belin and Ball that Brennan could identify Oswald. The major factor was that neither Norman or Jarman had yet to give their WC testimony so there was no way of Ball and Belin knowing they were the ones that saw Brennan in front of the TSBD. When Brennan said "I explained that to you this morning" he was referring to his opinion that he would not be able to tell blacks apart (or something to that effect) until the morning of the 22nd but Brennan did not want to repeat that in front of BRW, Jarman and Norman.

See here regarding his identification of the two men on the 5th floor.....

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1712.0.html

Did the WR report rely on Brennan's ID of Oswald btw?