Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Colin Crow]

It was only after this that Williams vacated the snipers nest.

So, your claim is that BRW was the shooter?

No. Williams was on the 5th floor at the time of the shots. He lied and deceived repeatedly about his actions and times after the assassination. So did Jarman and Norman. This is old news. The real question is why the need for them to lie once lone nut Oswald was captured before 2pm and dead by Sunday morning.

The timing of their movements can be verified by Norman?s reference to the position of the motorcade and Jarman?s estimate. Also Truly testifies to seeing them depart with Givens the return to enter the building. You have to factor the time taken for them to travel to the 5th floor and be in position before Williams can descend. Williams lunch was originally found on boxes in the SN btw. He probably the saw the assassin prior to departing.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1266.0.html

[Walt Cakebread]

No. Williams was on the 5th floor at the time of the shots. He lied and deceived repeatedly about his actions and times after the assassination. So did Jarman and Norman. This is old news. The real question is why the need for them to lie once lone nut Oswald was captured before 2pm and dead by Sunday morning.

The timing of their movements can be verified by Norman?s reference to the position of the motorcade and Jarman?s estimate. Also Truly testifies to seeing them depart with Givens the return to enter the building. You have to factor the time taken for them to travel to the 5th floor and be in position before Williams can descend. Williams lunch was originally found on boxes in the SN btw. He probably the saw the assassin prior to departing.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1266.0.html

The timing of their movements can be verified by Norman?s reference to the position of the motorcade and Jarman?s estimate.

Since J&N reported that they heard the police radio announce that the Motorcade was approaching Main Street just prior to their decision to go to the fifth floor, we have a time stamp of !2:25  for that transmission....which means they entered the back door of the TSBD at about 12:26 ....  And Lee Oswald said that he saw them come in and identified them. He said that he was eating lunch at the time, He did NOT say that they were also eating lunch or that they ate lunch with him.   

Also Truly testifies to seeing them depart with Givens the return to enter the building.

There's no doubt that J&N left the front of the TSBD at about 12:25 and traveled to the fifth floor where they were photographed by Tom Dillard during the shooting at 12:30. 

  You have to factor the time taken for them to travel to the 5th floor and be in position before Williams can descend. Williams lunch was originally found on boxes in the SN btw. He probably the saw the assassin prior to departing.

Colin, there is no way to verify Williams tale.....  We simply don't know where he was prior to joining J&N on the fifth floor...

For all we know...Williams could have been on the fifth floor at the time J&N arrived.....  He may have stayed out of sight until he could confirm the identities of the person who had just brought the elevator to the fifth floor....

I strongly suspect that Wlliams was scared stiff.... and he was lying about his movements between 12:00 and 12 :28.

[Walt Cakebread]

So you believe that Oswald tried to create an alibi by identifying two individuals in the "lunchroom" with him. These two were directly below the SN and their conversations likely audible to a 6th floor assassin in the SE window.

So in your view an innocent pleading assassin Oswald was some kind of moron, one whose best explanation was to include individuals who could easily prove him to be a liar. Possible that he even knew they were not able to be even in the lunchroom at the time of the shots. This was after he was aware some of his fellow workmates were at DPDHQ with him and being questioned.

What a cunning plan.....


There were others present aside from Kelley......what did they say? This was afterall a key piece of the investigation......the accused's alibi. He was asked on more than one occasion I believe.

Wonder if there was any confusion about "lunchroom" by those present at the interrogations. Did those present have a good idea of the layout of the building at the time and the workers lunch habits?

 (His) best explanation was to include individuals who could easily prove him to be a liar.

Indeed.... Lee would have had to have been a utter idiot to offer such an alibi....   He told the interrogators that he had seen J&N enter the building while he was in the first floor lunchroom....  Obviously Lee KNEW ( in relation to the shooting) what time that was or he wouldn't have offered it as an alibi..... He knew that J&N entered the building just a couple of minutes prior to JFK passing by the building.

Lee knew full well that the police would check his story by asking J &N to tell them where they were at the time period involved.
(12:25 to 12:30) And He was right... The police DID question J & N and they absolutely KNEW that Lee was NOT on the sixth floor at the time JFK was shot to death....

[Oscar Navarro]

No. Williams was on the 5th floor at the time of the shots. He lied and deceived repeatedly about his actions and times after the assassination. So did Jarman and Norman. This is old news. The real question is why the need for them to lie once lone nut Oswald was captured before 2pm and dead by Sunday morning.

The timing of their movements can be verified by Norman?s reference to the position of the motorcade and Jarman?s estimate. Also Truly testifies to seeing them depart with Givens the return to enter the building. You have to factor the time taken for them to travel to the 5th floor and be in position before Williams can descend. Williams lunch was originally found on boxes in the SN btw. He probably the saw the assassin prior to departing.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1266.0.html

Well, you posted that Williams left the SN, which was on the sixth floor. Dillard Exhibit C would blow that theory to smithereens. It also appears that you have unwittingly answered your own question as to why would Williams, Jarman and Norman would have to lie.  They didn't! You have taken bits of confused and conflicting testimony of three individuals and made it into a sinister conspiracy without motive. Take three witness testimonies of an event and you'll likely get three different versions of that event. I'm sure this has been repeated a million times but it's a truism that has to be brought into the discussion because CTers just don't quite get it.

[Walt Cakebread]

Well, you posted that Williams left the SN, which was on the sixth floor. Dillard Exhibit C would blow that theory to smithereens. It also appears that you have unwittingly answered your own question as to why would Williams, Jarman and Norman would have to lie.  They didn't! You have taken bits of confused and conflicting testimony of three individuals and made it into a sinister conspiracy without motive. Take three witness testimonies of an event and you'll likely get three different versions of that event. I'm sure this has been repeated a million times but it's a truism that has to be brought into the discussion because CTers just don't quite get it.

CTers just don't quite get it.

Some of the inhabitants of Jonestown "didn't quite get it" either, Mr. Narvarroo..... And they refused to drink the Kool-Aide.

[Colin Crow]

Well, you posted that Williams left the SN, which was on the sixth floor. Dillard Exhibit C would blow that theory to smithereens. It also appears that you have unwittingly answered your own question as to why would Williams, Jarman and Norman would have to lie.  They didn't! You have taken bits of confused and conflicting testimony of three individuals and made it into a sinister conspiracy without motive. Take three witness testimonies of an event and you'll likely get three different versions of that event. I'm sure this has been repeated a million times but it's a truism that has to be brought into the discussion because CTers just don't quite get it.

You seem either incapable or unwilling to appreciate the assembled information and it?s implications.

The official story is that the shots were fired from the SN at about 12.30. At that time Williams, Jarman and Norman were in the windows immediately below. About 40 minutes later Mooney finds the shells and chicken lunch remnants in the SN. This was verified by numerous police who arrived shortly after and made statements of their observations. Someone (likely Gerald Hill) moved the lunch and eventually placed the chicken piece and bones in the lunchsack. This occurred prior to the arrival of Fritz. The lunch was considered evidence and thought to belong to the assassin. This was widely reported in the media for a few days.

Williams was aware of Oswald?s arrest when he was questioned on the afternoon of the assassination. He was aware of the importance of the 6th floor (it was the reason he was taken for questioning). He deceived and lied about his movements for the duration of the investigation. Eventually he admitted he joined Jarman and Norman shortly before the shots.

Until their WC appearance Jarman and Norman maintained that Williams ascended to the 6th floor with them. Why did they continue to lie about his movements? The timing of his descent and his position in the SN is completely consistent with the essential observations of Arnold Rowland in his WC testimony.

I am not suggesting Williams was in any way part of the shooting. Just that analysis of assembled information from official documents suggest that something other than the offical story occurred in the SN just prior to the shots.

[John Iacoletti]

Take three witness testimonies of an event and you'll likely get three different versions of that event. I'm sure this has been repeated a million times but it's a truism that has to be brought into the discussion because CTers just don't quite get it.

But somehow you assume that three different versions of what was said during interrogations must all be accurate and therefore Oswald "changed his story".  Interesting...