What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"

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Author Topic: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"  (Read 82264 times)

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #133 on: November 27, 2023, 02:59:09 PM »
Wrong.
From Kellermans' report, 11/29/63: "We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"

Specter was apparently not in the room at the time he wrote this.

Greer, the driver, said this:
Mr. SPECTER. Now, how many shots, or how many noises have you just described that you heard?
Mr. GREER. I know there was three that I heard--three. But I cannot remember any more than probably three. I know there was three anyway that I heard.
Mr. SPECTER. Do you have an independent recollection at this moment of having heard three shots at that time?
Mr. GREER. I knew that after I heard the second one, that is when I looked over my shoulder, and I was conscious that there was something wrong, because that is when I saw Governor Connally. And when I turned around again, to the best of my recollection there was another one, right immediately after.
Mr. SPECTER. To the best of your ability to recollect and estimate, how much time elapsed from the first noise which you have described as being similar to the backfire of a motor vehicle until you heard the second noise?
Mr. GREER. It seems a matter of seconds, I really couldn't say. Three or four seconds.

In his same day report, Greer said he heard two shots.

Link/source: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/sa-kelle.htm
Link/source: https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/greer.htm
« Last Edit: November 27, 2023, 03:03:51 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2023, 05:24:24 AM »
It doesn’t matter how many questions she answered about it. She only saw something once. In late September or early October, she peeked into the end of a rolled-up and tied blanket and saw part of a wooden stock that she took to be a rifle.

“Richard” somehow transforms this into a “confirmation” that a Mannlicher-Carcano with serial number C-2766 was in the blanket on the evening of Thursday, November 21, 1963.

It’s not.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #135 on: November 29, 2023, 04:44:33 PM »
Two shots do not constitute a "flurry of shots." Even under Specter's leading and manipulative questioning, Kellerman said that "at least" two shots hit people in the limo, and then he said, "There have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen" (2 H 78). By then Kellerman was well aware that the government line was that only three shots were fired.

Kellerman's wife said that he believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy.

We should keep in mind, also, that USPP officer Nick Principe said he saw a hole in the limo's windshield when he saw the limo in the White House garage on the night of 11/22/63. Secret Service agent Charles Taylor also saw the hole in the windshield, and he mentioned it in his report to SAIC Harry Geiglein. Four other people also reported seeing a hole in the limo's windshield.

Online Royell Storing

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #136 on: November 29, 2023, 05:02:45 PM »
Two shots do not constitute a "flurry of shots." Even under Specter's leading and manipulative questioning, Kellerman said that "at least" two shots hit people in the limo, and then he said, "There have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen" (2 H 78). By then Kellerman was well aware that the government line was that only three shots were fired.

Kellerman's wife said that he believed JFK was killed by a conspiracy.

We should keep in mind, also, that USPP officer Nick Principe said he saw a hole in the limo's windshield when he saw the limo in the White House garage on the night of 11/22/63. Secret Service agent Charles Taylor also saw the hole in the windshield, and he mentioned it in his report to SAIC Harry Geiglein. Four other people also reported seeing a hole in the limo's windshield.

    Guys like Kellerman were approaching retirement. They know what happens to a pension when an individual gets a wild hair up their arse and bucks the system.  Same goes for SA Clint Hill. I have trouble accepting anything he says when he continues peddling the narrative that the JFK Limo did NOT STOP at any point on its' journey to Parkland Hospital. CT's and LN's alike KNOW the JFK Limo did STOP at some point before reaching Parkland.

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #137 on: November 29, 2023, 05:31:49 PM »
    Guys like Kellerman were approaching retirement. They know what happens to a pension when an individual gets a wild hair up their arse and bucks the system.  Same goes for SA Clint Hill. I have trouble accepting anything he says when he continues peddling the narrative that the JFK Limo did NOT STOP at any point on its' journey to Parkland Hospital. CT's and LN's alike KNOW the JFK Limo did STOP at some point before reaching Parkland.
Again, here is Kellerman in his 11/29/63 report: "We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"

That is he heard three shots. Greer said three shots. Connally said he heard two shots and was hit by a third. Nellie Connally said three shots. Chaney said three shots. Hargis said three shots. Bowers (him again) said three shots. I can continue.

Nellie Connally: "The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us."

So if the shot blew out the back of JFK's head how did this matter land in front of him? On the Connallys, Greer, Kellermann, the hood of the car?









Online Royell Storing

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #138 on: November 29, 2023, 06:21:58 PM »
Again, here is Kellerman in his 11/29/63 report: "We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"

That is he heard three shots. Greer said three shots. Connally said he heard two shots and was hit by a third. Nellie Connally said three shots. Chaney said three shots. Hargis said three shots. Bowers (him again) said three shots. I can continue.

Nellie Connally: "The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us."

So if the shot blew out the back of JFK's head how did this matter land in front of him? On the Connallys, Greer, Kellermann, the hood of the car?

    You forget to include Motorcycle Officer Hargis riding on the (L) Rear of the JFK Limo. And SA Clint Hill almost directly behind the rear of the Limo. You seem to think that Hole in the rear of JFK's head should have acted like the barrel of a canon. Some of the drawings I have seen regarding this Hole show it to be emulsed. Somewhat along the lines of a gun barrel that has exploded. This might explain blood/brain matter being dispersed every which way. Also, Josiah Thompson postulated 2 shots striking almost simultaneously.
     

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: What did SS agent Kellerman mean by, "A flurry of shells come into the car?"
« Reply #139 on: November 30, 2023, 04:27:47 AM »
Again, here is Kellerman in his 11/29/63 report: "We were still traveling at the normal rate of speed of from 12 to 15 miles per hour when I heard a noise, similar to a firecracker, exploding in the area to the rear of the car, about 12:30 p.m.

Immediately I heard what I firmly believe was the President's voice, "My God, I'm hit!" I turned around to find out what happened when two additional shots rang out, and the President slumped into Mrs. Kennedy's lap and Governor Connally fell_to Mrs. Connally's lap. I heard Mrs. Kennedy shout, "What are they doing to you?"

That is he heard three shots. Greer said three shots. Connally said he heard two shots and was hit by a third. Nellie Connally said three shots. Chaney said three shots. Hargis said three shots. Bowers (him again) said three shots. I can continue.

Nellie Connally: "The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us."

So if the shot blew out the back of JFK's head how did this matter land in front of him? On the Connallys, Greer, Kellermann, the hood of the car?

There is a little more to the statements of these witnesses

Kellerman referenced the second shot was the headshot and then stated the car accelerated. There were not any additional shots after the headshot.

Gov Connally said he heard two shots and was hit by the one he never heard. He also stated he cried out OH No No No when he was hit. Both Jackie and Nellie said he cried out Oh No No No after the first shot but before the second.

Nellie stated to her spokesman Julian Read when he asked her immediately after the assassination “she did not know about a third shot”

Greer until the Warren Commission testimony was a two shot witness. Arlen Specter wrote a memo to J. Lee Rankin two days after Greer’s testimony in which he said, “ Mr. Greer told me on March 3rd that he recollected two shots, but he then testified he heard three shots.”

Both Chaney and Hargis are two shot witnesses. Both stated so immediately after the assassination.