Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?  (Read 3767 times)

Offline Jake Maxwell

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 197
J. Edgar Hoover's recently released memo below - only two days after the assassination, Nov. 24, 1963 - shows a rush to judgment regarding Oswald - and quite possibly a rush to cover-up...

Shouldn't this be considered the most relevant piece of evidence for a conspiracy?

"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 12:29:58 AM by Jake Maxwell »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Matthew Finch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2018, 12:42:51 PM »
"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."

Real as opposed to...?

This can be taken a couple of ways. It can be seen at face value as trying to cover up (if the 'real' assassin was not Oswald). But it can also be seen as a completely innocent way of trying to ensure the public know the truth and don't erroneously think they are being fed a story.

Translation of the first way:
"Cripes, we don't want the public to find out that this was a conspired job, how can we ensure the public believes that it was Oswald?"

Translation of the second way:
"We know Oswald did it, but how on Earth do we ensure the public knows for sure it was Oswald...?"

That's how I read it (the second way).

Offline Matthew Finch

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 42
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 12:56:48 PM »
Do you have it to hand?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2018, 12:56:48 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2018, 01:00:29 PM »
Shouldn't this be considered the most relevant piece of evidence for a conspiracy?

conspiracy - no

cover up - absolutely

WW III involving a nuclear exchange was a distinct possibility especially if either Russia or Cuba were implicated in the assassination of JFK.

Easier for everyone to blame everything on 2 random and demented LNers and leave it at that. Even better since one of them was killed on the 24th before testifying and the other died of cancer while in prison.

WW III averted = everyone can go back to business.

Or so it would seem......except for Lee Oswald and his family.....  And this is NOT the American way. ( nor should it be for any christian nation.) 

The murder of JFK was the way of the mob.....  and John Edgar Hoover understood the tacit well.   

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 01:33:58 PM »
This can be taken a couple of ways. It can be seen at face value as trying to cover up (if the 'real' assassin was not Oswald). But it can also be seen as a completely innocent way of trying to ensure the public know the truth and don't erroneously think they are being fed a story.

Translation of the first way:
"Cripes, we don't want the public to find out that this was a conspired job, how can we ensure the public believes that it was Oswald?"

Translation of the second way:
"We know Oswald did it, but how on Earth do we ensure the public knows for sure it was Oswald...?"

That's how I read it (the second way).

If the intent was the second interpretation as you believe....  Then why did the authorities ( The DPD and Hoover's agents) create false evidence.   If Lee Oswald had been guilty then there should have been no reason to create false evidence.   The evidence should speak for itself.   

False evidence announces a frame up.....

But the simple fact is..... The WR is obviously a damned lie.   If Lee was guilty then there should have been no need to create the elaborate lie. 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2018, 01:33:58 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2018, 02:19:41 PM »
This can be taken a couple of ways. It can be seen at face value as trying to cover up (if the 'real' assassin was not Oswald). But it can also be seen as a completely innocent way of trying to ensure the public know the truth and don't erroneously think they are being fed a story.

Translation of the first way:
"Cripes, we don't want the public to find out that this was a conspired job, how can we ensure the public believes that it was Oswald?"

Translation of the second way:
"We know Oswald did it, but how on Earth do we ensure the public knows for sure it was Oswald...?"

That's how I read it (the second way).

The second interpretation is "altered reality" ....   It's ironic that Leonard Pitts wrote about this in an editorial.

'If reality is altered, as it is in the Warren Report, then what can we believe in?'

Mr Pitts article follows.....

Leonard Pitts Jr.
By Leonard Pitts Jr.

 
'If reality is altered, what can we believe in?'
By Leonard Pitts Jr., Tribune Content Agency on May 9, 2018
"If Reality Is Altered, What Can We Believe In?"

In 1994, that was the headline of the first column I ever wrote about the manipulation of images and words -- digital lies that made it difficult to know what was really real. Small wonder, I said, we were a nation "paralyzed by cynicism."

Twenty-four years later, the technology has improved while social media have made the lies ubiquitous. And "cynicism" would be a feeble word for the state of the union today, when the very idea of knowable truth is in controversy, an adviser to a lying president speaks airily of "alternative facts," the news is filled with conspiracy theories and it has become distressingly clear that many of us simply don't care, blithely rejecting all facts that collide with preferred fictions.

The scary thing is, it's about to get worse.

That's according to "After the Fact," a troubling and essential new book by USA Today reporter Nathan Bomey, which traces the course of this intellectual unraveling. He writes that new technology will soon open the door to an era of audio manipulation, the implications of which are staggering.

Consider that it is already possible, with a little tech savvy, to produce an image or video of you doing something you never did. Well, now it will be possible to pair that with audio of you saying -- in your own voice -- something you never said. As if it were not already hard enough to know the truth when you hear it.

So how did we reach this point? "Journalists," said Bomey in a telephone interview, "used to be gatekeepers in the sense that we took responsibility for authenticating information. And people trusted us to try to sort fact from fiction. Now social media has put individual people in charge of authenticating information on their own, and most people aren't trained to do that." Complicating matters, he said, is "the natural human tendency to ignore the truth."

Though the retreat from facts has been most noticeable among conservatives, thanks to their megaphone of cable news, talk radio and internet conspiracy sites, Bomey said it is not unique to them. While the right denies the fact of climate change, for instance, "Liberals are more likely to deny the facts about genetically modified food, which is a big issue when it comes to poverty in Africa."
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 02:26:49 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 02:53:16 PM »
Shouldn't this be considered the most relevant piece of evidence for a conspiracy?

conspiracy - no

cover up - absolutely

WW III involving a nuclear exchange was a distinct possibility especially if either Russia or Cuba were implicated in the assassination of JFK.

Easier for everyone to blame everything on 2 random and demented LNers and leave it at that. Even better since one of them was killed on the 24th before testifying and the other died of cancer while in prison.

WW III averted = everyone can go back to business.

Hi Tony....   I could not more profoundly and vociferously disagree with your position.

"conspiracy - no"     "cover up - absolutely"

Hoover wrote the memo....

 "The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."


Which clearly is the work of a desperate man. So, Why was Hoover in a panic?

We've examined a mountain of information and it's clear to me that J.Edger hoover had foreknowledge of the plot and sanctioned the plot....  He was a conspirator.

 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2018, 02:53:16 PM »

Offline Gary Craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 615
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 02:53:21 PM »
"...On November 23,1963, J. Edgar Hoover forwarded the results of the FBI's preliminary investigation to him.(LBJ) This report detailed the evidence that indicated LHO's guilt.

On November 24, 1963, Hoover telephoned President Johnson aide Walter Jenkins and stated:"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin..."


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=39609&imageO...

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2018, 02:53:21 PM »

Offline Gary Craig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 615
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2018, 03:00:25 PM »
11/23/63
Lyndon B. Johnson: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

J. Edgar Hoover: No, that's one angle that's very confusing, for this reason - we have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there. We do have a copy of a letter which was written by Oswald to the Soviet embassy here in Washington, inquiring as well as complaining about the harassment of his wife and the questioning of his wife by the FBI. Now, of course, that letter information - we process all mail that goes to the Soviet embassy. It's a very secret operation.
No mail is delivered to the embassy without being examined and opened by us, so that we know what they receive... The case, as it stands now, isn't strong enough to be able to get a conviction... Now if we can identify this man who was at the... Soviet embassy in Mexico City... This man Oswald has still denied everything. He doesn't know anything about anything, but the gun thing, of course, is a definite trend.

-------------

J. Edgar Hoover: I just wanted to let you know of a development which I think is very important in connection with this case - this man in Dallas (Lee Harvey Oswald). We, of course, charged him with the murder of the President. The evidence that they have at the present time is not very, very strong. We have just discovered the place where the gun was purchased and the shipment of the gun from Chicago to Dallas, to a post office box in Dallas, to a man - no, to a woman by the name of "A. Hidell."... We had it flown up last night, and our laboratory here is making an examination of it.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Yes, I told the Secret Service to see that that got taken care of.

J. Edgar Hoover: That's right. We have the gun and we have the bullet. There was only one full bullet that was found. That was on the stretcher that the President was on. It apparently had fallen out when they massaged his heart, and we have that one. We have what we call slivers, which are not very valuable in the identification. As soon as we finish the testing of the gun for fingerprints ... we will then be able to test the one bullet we have with the gun. But the important thing is that this gun was bought in Chicago on a money order. Cost twenty-one dollars, and it seems almost impossible to think that for twenty-one dollars you could kill the President of the United States.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 03:33:10 PM by Gary Craig »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3571
Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2018, 03:36:22 PM »
11/23/63
Lyndon B. Johnson: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

J. Edgar Hoover: No, that's one angle that's very confusing, for this reason - we have up here the tape and the photograph of the man who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's voice, nor to his appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there. We do have a copy of a letter which was written by Oswald to the Soviet embassy here in Washington, inquiring as well as complaining about the harassment of his wife and the questioning of his wife by the FBI. Now, of course, that letter information - we process all mail that goes to the Soviet embassy. It's a very secret operation.
No mail is delivered to the embassy without being examined and opened by us, so that we know what they receive... The case, as it stands now, isn't strong enough to be able to get a conviction... Now if we can identify this man who was at the... Soviet embassy in Mexico City... This man Oswald has still denied everything. He doesn't know anything about anything, but the gun thing, of course, is a definite trend.


The case, as it stands now, isn't strong enough to be able to get a conviction

At he time Hoover was telling LBJ that their case was very weak.....The authorities in Dallas were lying through their teeth and telling reporters all kinds of lies.... like saying they had found Lee Oswald's prints on the gun....and the gun was a deadly accurate rifle that was equipped with a telescopic sight...... and they had found the paper sack that Oswald had used to smuggle the rifle into the building..... and on and on....

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Hoover's recently released memo; does it prove conspiracy?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2018, 03:36:22 PM »

 

Mobile View