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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 109763 times)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #310 on: June 03, 2018, 04:39:27 PM »
Yawn, selective quoting and/or imaging is all you got and as usual never tells the whole story. Why are you so afraid of the truth?

What "whole story" did I not tell?  You're the master of cherry picking only the things that tell your story.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #311 on: June 03, 2018, 04:43:02 PM »
You're so full of sh!t.

Now you want to pretend that Scoggins did not get a good look at the fleeing killer since the killer was "facing away from him" and Scoggins "only saw someone going south on Patton".

The killer headed straight towards Scoggins as he (the killer) fled toward the corner and Scoggins got a look at the killer's face.

Sure Bill.  As the guy looked over his left shoulder.  Got a good look at him, did he?

Mr. SCOGGINS. No, I saw him coming kind of toward me around that cutoff through there, and he never did look at me. He looked back over his left shoulder like that, as he went by. It seemed like I could see his face, his features and everything plain, you see.

It "seemed like"?  Either he could or he couldn't!

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #312 on: June 03, 2018, 04:46:58 PM »
15-20 minutes?  What makes you say that?

What time do you think the shooting occurred?  What time did Mary Brock claim to have seen him?   What time did Brewer claim to have seen him?

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #313 on: June 03, 2018, 09:19:44 PM »
What time do you think the shooting occurred?  What time did Mary Brock claim to have seen him?   What time did Brewer claim to have seen him?

The FBI report stated that Brock saw the man who she identified as Oswald walk past her (wearing a light-colored jacket) at "approximately 1:30".

Are we now now taking FBI reports so literal?  What about Linnie Mae Randle saying the bag she saw Oswald carrying that morning was three feet long?

Anyway, we know the 1:30 is off a little bit because Warren Reynolds and Pat Patterson followed Oswald as soon as he came running down Patton and turned west onto Jefferson Boulevard.

For those who may be unaware (instead of being dishonest like Iacoletti), after hearing the shots, Warren Reynolds and Pat Patterson saw the gunman running down Patton and turn west onto Jefferson.  Reynolds and Patterson followed the man from a safe distance.  They saw the man disappear somewhere around the Texaco station.  They went up to Mary Brock (her husband was a mechanic at the station) and asked her if she saw a man come by.  She told them she had just seen a man walk fast past her, wearing a light colored-jacket with his hands in his pockets.  She told them she last saw the man in the parking lot behind the station.

I suppose an honest person would conclude that "approximately 1:30" was an estimation.  However, a person being dishonest (and hardly interested in the truth) would imply that it really took Oswald (and then Reynolds and Patterson) fifteen minutes to reach the Texaco lot.

In reality, Oswald was probably at the Texaco within five minutes of shooting Tippit.  Therefore, "approximately 1:30" was probably 1:20.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 09:21:58 PM by Bill Brown »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #314 on: June 03, 2018, 11:52:19 PM »
       pathetic
It is hilarious to see the LNers trying so hard to use eyewitnesses when they usually claim that they
 are unreliable.
 

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #315 on: June 04, 2018, 02:32:03 AM »
Now we know that there is at least one LN who thinks we shouldn't take FBI reports (including the one claiming Linnie Mae Randle said the bag Oswald carried that morning was three feet long) literally....

That's at least something.... I guess  :)


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #316 on: June 04, 2018, 04:44:22 AM »
The FBI report stated that Brock saw the man who she identified as Oswald walk past her (wearing a light-colored jacket) at "approximately 1:30".

Are we now now taking FBI reports so literal?  What about Linnie Mae Randle saying the bag she saw Oswald carrying that morning was three feet long?

Linnie Mae testified that the bag she saw was 28 1/2 inches long.  I must have missed Mary Brock's testimony where she said that "approximately 1:30" was probably 1:20.

Quote
For those who may be unaware (instead of being dishonest like Iacoletti), after hearing the shots, Warren Reynolds and Pat Patterson saw the gunman running down Patton and turn west onto Jefferson.  Reynolds and Patterson followed the man from a safe distance.  They saw the man disappear somewhere around the Texaco station.

LOL.  So now your game is to pretend that "somewhere around the Texaco station" means "at the Texaco station walking past Mary Brock".  But let's go with your "probably 1:20" and see where that leads.  What time did Johnny Calvin Brewer say he saw the man who looked funny in front of his shoe store?  He also said 1:30.  But that would mean that this "fast walking man" took 10 minutes to go 0.4 miles.  Supposedly the same guy who was able earlier to "fast walk" 1.1 miles in only 11 minutes.  Then another 14 minutes for him (if it was the same guy) to enter the theater and for Postal to call the cops on him.  So if anything, Brewer's estimate was too early.  No matter how you slice it there's missing time.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:49:41 AM by John Iacoletti »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #317 on: June 04, 2018, 04:45:07 AM »
It is hilarious to see the LNers trying so hard to use eyewitnesses when they usually claim that they are unreliable. 🤣😂

Eyewitnesses are unreliable except when they aren't.   :D

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #318 on: June 04, 2018, 05:08:23 AM »
Linnie Mae testified that the bag she saw was 28 1/2 inches long.  I must have missed Mary Brock's testimony where she said that "approximately 1:30" was probably 1:20.

LOL.  So now your game is to pretend that "somewhere around the Texaco station" means "at the Texaco station walking past Mary Brock".  But let's go with your "probably 1:20" and see where that leads.  What time did Johnny Calvin Brewer say he saw the man who looked funny in front of his shoe store?  He also said 1:30.  But that would mean that this "fast walking man" took 10 minutes to go 0.4 miles.  Supposedly the same guy who was able earlier to "fast walk" 1.1 miles in only 11 minutes.  Then another 14 minutes for him (if it was the same guy) to enter the theater and for Postal to call the cops on him.  So if anything, Brewer's estimate was too early.  No matter how you slice it there's missing time.




Let's get a grip, this is 1963 and people either said about/approximately/around either 1 or 1:30 which works out to a mean time of 1:15.
Scoggins who was on lunch and was due back at work would have been clock watching and Scoggins said about 1:20.



JohnM
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 05:28:41 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #319 on: June 04, 2018, 05:10:35 AM »
Eyewitnesses are unreliable except when they aren't.   :D



The eyewitnesses who positively identified Oswald and confirmed he was carrying a gun

Mr. BALL. Which way?
Mrs. MARKHAM. Towards Jefferson, right across that way.
Mr. DULLES. Did he have the pistol in his hand at this time?
Mrs. MARKHAM. He had the gun when I saw him.


Mr. BELIN - All right. Now, you said you saw the man with the gun throw the shells?
Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you see the man empty his gun?
Mr. BENAVIDES - That is what he was doing. He took one out and threw it

Mr. BALL. And what did you see the man doing?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, first off she went to screaming before I had paid too much attention to him, and pointing at him, and he was, what I thought, was emptying the gun.
Mr. BALL. He had a gun in his hand?
Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else as you heard her screaming?
Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we saw Oswald. We didn't know it was Oswald at the time. We saw that boy cut across the lawn emptying the shells out of the gun.

Mr. BALL. And how was he holding the gun?
Mr. CALLAWAY. We used to say in the Marine Corps in a raised pistol position.


Mr. BALL. What did you see him doing?
Mr. GUINYARD. He came through there running and knocking empty shells out of his pistol and he had it up just like this with his hand.
Mr. BALL. With which hand?
Mr. GUINYARD. With his right hand; just kicking them out.
Mr. BALL. He had it up?


Mr. B.M. PATTERSON, 4635 Hartford Street, Dallas, Texas, currently employed by Wyatt's Cafeteria, 2647 South Lancaster, Dallas, Texas, advised he was present at the used car lot of JOHNNY REYNOLDS' on the afternoon of November 22, 1963.

PATTERSON advised that at approximately 1:30 PM, he was standing on JONNY REYNOLDS' used car lot together with L.J. LEWIS and HAROLD RUSSELL when they heard shots coming from the vicinity of 10th and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. A minute or so later they observed a white male approximately 30 years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying what appeared to be a revolver in his hand and was obviously trying to reload same while running.


Mr. LIEBELER. Did you see this man's face that had the gun in his hand?
Mr.REYNOLDS. Very good.

HAROLD RUSSELL, employee, Johnny Reynolds Used Car Lot, 500 Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was standing on the lot of Reynolds Used Cars together with L.J. LEWIS and PAT PATTERSON, at which time they heard shots come from the vicinity of Patton and Tenth Street, and a few seconds later they observed a young white man running south on Patton Avenue carrying a pistol or revolver which the individual was attempting to either reload or place in his belt line.


Mr. BELIN. Did he have anything in his hand?
Mr. SCOGGINS. He had a pistol in his left hand.

Jack Tatum
Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street.


The Police Officers who were confronted with the murdering Oswald.

Mr. McDONALD - My left hand, at this point.
Mr. BALL - And had he withdrawn the pistol
Mr. McDONALD - He was drawing it as I put my hand.
Mr. BALL - From his waist?
Mr. McDONALD - Yes, sir.


Mr. BELIN. When you saw Oswald's hand by his belt, which hand did you see then?
Mr. WALKER. He had ahold of the handle of it.
Mr. BELIN. Handle of what?
Mr. WALKER. The revolver.
Mr. BELIN. Was there a revolver there?
Mr. WALKER. Yes; there was.

Mr. HUTSON. McDonald was at this time simultaneously trying to hold this person's right hand. Somehow this person moved his right hand to his waist, and I saw a revolver come out, and McDonald was holding on to it with his right hand, and this gun was waving up toward the back of the seat like this.


Oswald even admitted carrying his revolver.

Mr. STERN - Was he asked whether he was carrying a pistol at the time he was in the Texas Theatre?
Mr. BOOKHOUT - Yes; that was brought up. He admitted that he was carrying a pistol at the time he was arrested.


Mr. McCLOY. Was it a sharpshooter's or a marksman's? There are two different types, you know.
Mr. HOSTY. I believe it was a sharpshooter, sir. He then told Captain Fritz that he had been living at 1026 North Beckley, that is in Dallas, Tex., at 1026 North Beckley under the name O. H. Lee and not under his true name.
Oswald admitted that he was present in the Texas School Book Depository Building on the 22d of November 1963, where he had been employed since the 15th of October. Oswald told Captain Fritz that he was a laborer in this building and had access to the entire building. It had offices on the first and second floors with storage on third, fourth, fifth and sixth floors.
Oswald told Captain Fritz that he went to lunch at approximately noon on the 22d of November, ate his lunch in the lunchroom, and had gone and gotten a Coca Cola from the Coca Cola machine to have with his lunch. He claimed that he was in the lunchroom at the time President Kennedy passed the building.
He was asked why he left the School Book Depository that day, and he stated that in all the confusion he was certain that there would be no more work for the rest of the day, that everybody was too upset, there was too much confusion, so he just decided that there would be no work for the rest of the day and so he went home. He got on a bus and went home. He went to his residence on North Beckley, changed his clothes, and then went to a movie.
Captain Fritz asked him if he always carried a pistol when he went to the movie, and he said he carried it because he felt like it. He admitted that he did have a pistol on him at the time of his arrest, in this theatre, in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. He further admitted that he had resisted arrest and had received a bump and a cut as a result of his resisting of arrest. He then denied that he had killed Officer Tippit or President Kennedy.


Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mr. FRITZ. He told me he went over and caught a bus and rode the bus to North Beckley near where he lived and went by home and changed clothes and got his pistol and went to the show. I asked him why he took his pistol and he said, "Well, you know about a pistol; I just carried it." Let's see if I asked him anything else right that minute. That is just about it.



JohnM

 

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