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Author Topic: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer  (Read 103035 times)

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1240 on: May 10, 2019, 12:34:18 AM »
Ain't it just remarkable how the LNs can't produce a plausible scenario for the combined timelines of Markham and Bowley to work, for the shooting of Tippit 1.14 or 1.15 pm

Instead they just ignore it and claim Oswald must have been there at or before 1.10 - even if, by their own narrative, he couldn't have gotten there by that time on foot.

No response also to the unexplained 10 minute gap in Scoggins' timeline.

So.......

Bowley's watch was 100% correct.

Markham's estimate of what time it was when she left her residence was 100% spot on.

The clock on the wall at Methodist was 100% perfect.

....... and the Dallas police tapes were tampered with.

Do I have it right?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1241 on: May 10, 2019, 09:10:29 PM »
 
....... and the Dallas police tapes were tampered with. Do I have it right?
Oh maybe..how about the depressed microphone for several minutes just right when the motorcade was passing through Dealey Plaza and then headed to the hospital. One of the umptyfive hundred coincidences just in the space of an half hour   
 

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1242 on: May 10, 2019, 11:24:27 PM »
Oh maybe..how about the depressed microphone for several minutes just right when the motorcade was passing through Dealey Plaza and then headed to the hospital. One of the umptyfive hundred coincidences just in the space of an half hour   
 

The biggest problem for the believers in a 1.14 / 1.15 shooting of Tippit are the combined timelines of Markham and Bowley. Their "estimates" don't have to be "spot on". There are two anchors which IMO make it nearly impossible to challenge these timelines, even when you give or take a minute or so.

First of all, we know that Markham arrived at the scene, at least two or three minutes (my estimate), prior to Bowley. Markham saw the shooting taking place and Bowley arrived shortly after it happened.

Secondly, we know that Bowley said he picked up his daughter from school at "about 12.55" and school bells tend to ring on time.

So, if you want to push back Markham's time, you also have to push back Bowley's timeline with the same amount of time, otherwise there is no way that Bowley could have arrived after Markham saw the shooting.

Markham said she left home at "a little after one" and that it could have been as late as 1.06 or 1.07. The walking distance from 9th street to 10th/Patton is one block which takes about 2 minutes, which would have her arrive at 10th/Patton at the latest at 1.09.

The route Bowley described from the school to 10th/Patton takes an estimated 13 minutes, so if he picked up his daughter at "about 12.55" and allow a bit more time for traffic, he could and would have arrived at 10th/Patton at roughly 1.10.

Inbetween those to arrival times Tippit must have been shot.

So, what happens if you try to push back Markham's arrival time to (let's say) 1.14? It would mean that Bowley's timeline would have to be pushed back by 5 minutes also, but how does that work when you know he picked up his daughter from school at 12.55? Five minutes late would have left his daughter waiting for him for 5 minutes after school was out.... so, what's the reasoning there? Bowley got to the school 5 minutes late and somehow didn't notice it?

And what about Markham, where was she during those extra 5 minutes? Did she perhaps go for coffee halfway down the 2 minute walk it would have taken to get her from 9th to 10th street?

« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 11:50:49 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1243 on: May 12, 2019, 07:46:03 AM »
Markham said she left home at "a little after one" and that it could have been as late as 1.06 or 1.07. The walking distance from 9th street to 10th/Patton is one block which takes about 2 minutes, which would have her arrive at 10th/Patton at the latest at 1.09.

The route Bowley described from the school to 10th/Patton takes an estimated 13 minutes, so if he picked up his daughter at "about 12.55" and allow a bit more time for traffic, he could and would have arrived at 10th/Patton at roughly 1.10.

Inbetween those to arrival times Tippit must have been shot.

Okay.  So Oswald killed Tippit just before 1:10 p.m.

Now what?

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1244 on: August 03, 2019, 05:27:10 AM »
THE COP-KILLER IN THE ALLEY

Bill Smith and Jimmy Burt were about a block away, east of the intersection of Tenth and Patton. When they heard the shots, they went to the patrol car and to the fallen officer. After spending some time there, they went to the corner and turned left onto Patton, heading south towards Jefferson (the same path they observed the killer take, from what they could see).

When they reached a point halfway down the block on Patton (between Tenth and Jefferson), they looked west along the alley and saw the killer in the alley one block down, at a point which places the killer behind the Texaco station (exactly where the jacket was found). Bill Smith positively identified the killer as Lee Oswald. Jimmy Burt felt he didn't get a good enough look at the killer.

Point being, Bill Smith and Jimmy Burt both place the killer behind the Texaco lot where the jacket was found. The enclosed photo (taken shortly after the day of the Tippit murder) shows the view down the alley, looking west, from Patton (where Burt and Smith were standing).

Also included is a look at the Ballew's Texaco, circa early 60's. The building still stands today, now housing Santos Muffler & Radiator. Notice the back of the Abundant Life Temple behind the Texaco station. The police originally believed the killer fled to that building after disappearing behind the Texaco station.



« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 05:48:27 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1245 on: August 04, 2019, 08:47:27 AM »
Helen Markham's version of the killer's route (as he was fleeing) changed over the years.

In later years, she said the killer took off down the alley, something she did not mention originally.  Thing is, Markham's son James was good friends with Bill Smith.  Remember, Smith saw the killer in the alley one block west of Patton.  Smith lost sight of the killer as the killer turned the corner at Patton.  It is perfectly natural for Smith and Burt to assume the killer entered the alley at Patton (versus known testimony which shows that the killer went all the way down to Jefferson before making his way to the Texaco and then the lot behind the Texaco).

It seems reasonable that Bill Smith would tell his friends (of which Helen's son James was one) that the killer fled through the alley... and then James would relay that to his mom.  Then, Helen, over time, begins to add that to her telling of events, i.e. Helen Markham's claims of the killer fleeing through the alley were influenced, indirectly, by Bill Smith.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1246 on: August 04, 2019, 09:40:25 AM »
THE COP-KILLER IN THE ALLEY

Bill Smith and Jimmy Burt were about a block away, east of the intersection of Tenth and Patton. When they heard the shots, they went to the patrol car and to the fallen officer. After spending some time there, they went to the corner and turned left onto Patton, heading south towards Jefferson (the same path they observed the killer take, from what they could see).

When they reached a point halfway down the block on Patton (between Tenth and Jefferson), they looked west along the alley and saw the killer in the alley one block down, at a point which places the killer behind the Texaco station (exactly where the jacket was found). Bill Smith positively identified the killer as Lee Oswald. Jimmy Burt felt he didn't get a good enough look at the killer.

Point being, Bill Smith and Jimmy Burt both place the killer behind the Texaco lot where the jacket was found. The enclosed photo (taken shortly after the day of the Tippit murder) shows the view down the alley, looking west, from Patton (where Burt and Smith were standing).

Also included is a look at the Ballew's Texaco, circa early 60's. The building still stands today, now housing Santos Muffler & Radiator. Notice the back of the Abundant Life Temple behind the Texaco station. The police originally believed the killer fled to that building after disappearing behind the Texaco station.





 Thumb1:

Great post and I don't think I've seen those photo's before.

JohnM

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1247 on: August 04, 2019, 10:07:22 AM »
Thumb1:

Great post and I don't think I've seen those photo's before.

JohnM

Thanks John.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1248 on: August 04, 2019, 10:08:56 AM »
Markham could have regularly caught a bus at 1:12 and 1:22, but there was no stop scheduled for 1:15 like she claims in her testimony:


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Lee Oswald The Cop Killer
« Reply #1249 on: August 05, 2019, 02:47:32 AM »
Previously

He may well have done, although I doubt it, but Brown's OP contains only part of the whole story and can not be relied upon.

For instance, Helen Markham testified she left home at "a little after 1". She had only one block to walk, yet according to the official story Tippit was shot at around 1.14 pm. That means that, for the official story to be true, Markham would have taken some 10 minutes to walk one block. Anything less than that would have placed her well beyond 10th/Patton prior to the shooting. Obviously, if the shooting happened earlier, it's just about impossible for Oswald to have been there on time to do the deed.

William Scoggins's testimony reveals that his timing was off and that he got to 10th/Patton earlier than the official story claims. Also, Scoggins, who is supposed to have identified Oswald at the DPD line up failed to identify Oswald as Tippit's killer to the FBI from a photo shown to him the very next day.

Domingo Benavides, who was closer to the actual shooting than anybody else, refused to participate in a line up because he felt he could not positively identify the killer, yet others, like the Davis sisters, who were indoors somehow can identify the man? Really?

There are so many things Brown doesn't tell you, that his entire OP is just a one sided dishonest presentation of what he wants to be the truth rather than the truth itself.

The biggest problem for the believers in a 1.14 / 1.15 shooting of Tippit are the combined timelines of Markham and Bowley. Their "estimates" don't have to be "spot on". There are two anchors which IMO make it nearly impossible to challenge these timelines, even when you give or take a minute or so.

First of all, we know that Markham arrived at the scene, at least two or three minutes (my estimate), prior to Bowley. Markham saw the shooting taking place and Bowley arrived shortly after it happened.

Secondly, we know that Bowley said he picked up his daughter from school at "about 12.55" and school bells tend to ring on time.

So, if you want to push back Markham's time, you also have to push back Bowley's timeline with the same amount of time, otherwise there is no way that Bowley could have arrived after Markham saw the shooting.

Markham said she left home at "a little after one" and that it could have been as late as 1.06 or 1.07. The walking distance from 9th street to 10th/Patton is one block which takes about 2 minutes, which would have her arrive at 10th/Patton at the latest at 1.09.

The route Bowley described from the school to 10th/Patton takes an estimated 13 minutes, so if he picked up his daughter at "about 12.55" and allow a bit more time for traffic, he could and would have arrived at 10th/Patton at roughly 1.10.

Inbetween those to arrival times Tippit must have been shot.

So, what happens if you try to push back Markham's arrival time to (let's say) 1.14? It would mean that Bowley's timeline would have to be pushed back by 5 minutes also, but how does that work when you know he picked up his daughter from school at 12.55? Five minutes late would have left his daughter waiting for him for 5 minutes after school was out.... so, what's the reasoning there? Bowley got to the school 5 minutes late and somehow didn't notice it?

And what about Markham, where was she during those extra 5 minutes? Did she perhaps go for coffee halfway down the 2 minute walk it would have taken to get her from 9th to 10th street?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2019, 02:49:05 AM by Martin Weidmann »

 

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