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Author Topic: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo  (Read 54699 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #288 on: February 13, 2024, 02:40:06 AM »
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So, this first image shows the errors in the diagram that you posted. In the 3D model, the rear view mirror is too small and the impact is slightly off to the right:



My circle is off a whooping 1/8". What a nitpick. As explained to you, the damage was located using the windshield as a guide. The width of the mirror is secondary.

The Garage Photo is difficult to match as it has zoom and very little perpendiculars and straights. The camera angle is depressed and the field-of-vision is unknown. In time, it could be worked out. Much easier to maintain some precision with a photo like the Altgens Photo.

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In the following image I have corrected those two errors (in Photoshop - it'd be better if this was done in the 3D model) and presto, the impact point on the windscreen lines up with what we see in Altgens 6:





As I predicted, you have now created a new error. It is certainly better to leave the scale of the mirror alone as doing so preserves its match with the Altgens Photo. Personally, I can't see how your new version has the "Nebula" shape corresponding with the windshield damage disc.

So you have never done an original mapping of the damage area on the windshield to see if it corresponded to the "Nebula" shape in the Altgens Photo. You simply thought it did.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 02:50:21 AM by Jerry Organ »

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #288 on: February 13, 2024, 02:40:06 AM »


Online Jim Hawthorn

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #289 on: February 13, 2024, 07:13:46 AM »
My circle is off a whooping 1/8". What a nitpick. As explained to you, the damage was located using the windshield as a guide. The width of the mirror is secondary.

The Garage Photo is difficult to match as it has zoom and very little perpendiculars and straights. The camera angle is depressed and the field-of-vision is unknown. In time, it could be worked out. Much easier to maintain some precision with a photo like the Altgens Photo.

As I predicted, you have now created a new error. It is certainly better to leave the scale of the mirror alone as doing so preserves its match with the Altgens Photo. Personally, I can't see how your new version has the "Nebula" shape corresponding with the windshield damage disc.

So you have never done an original mapping of the damage area on the windshield to see if it corresponded to the "Nebula" shape in the Altgens Photo. You simply thought it did.

This isn't a 100% exact science but if your claim is that your initial diagram constitutes some sort of proof, it cannot if that rear view is of the wrong dimensions in the 3D model (when everything else is at the correct size).
Don't forget that the zoom I posted earlier in the thread clearly shows starburst rays of light reflecting off the bullet impact in front of the mirror. What we see in Altgens 6 is the bullet impact (with a slightly darker centre) directly aligned with the glimpse we have of the light coloured bag that the woman is holding.

Also, even in your diagram, we can see that the downward crack in the glass is in front of Kennedy's shoulder!



Here's the image that I posted earlier:



So this bullet impact on the windshield obviously happened at the same time as he "magic bullet" shot.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 07:14:51 AM by Jim Hawthorn »

Online Jim Hawthorn

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #290 on: February 13, 2024, 07:38:40 AM »
Also, look at the shape of the mirror in Algens 6 (on the right below). If there is no bullet impact, we should see a curved edge.
What we in fact see is the bullet impact in front of the edge of the mirror (with light rays coming off it in front of the mirror).

« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 07:57:47 AM by Jim Hawthorn »

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #290 on: February 13, 2024, 07:38:40 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #291 on: February 13, 2024, 12:37:49 PM »
I haven’t followed this thread so I apologize if I am repeating anything that has already been covered. But it appears to me that there is some diffraction of light caused by the aperture in the camera that is causing some “starburst effect” that is being confused with a bullet impact defect in the windshield. I have circled in red another area of bright white light that gives a similar effect. I don’t know exactly what the source of that white light is. Maybe someone else has an idea. Best I can tell, there is no windshield defect that corresponds to the “starburst” I have circled in red. Please let me know if you have an idea of the source of this patch of bright white light.  Thanks.



« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 12:40:20 PM by Charles Collins »

Online Jim Hawthorn

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #292 on: February 13, 2024, 12:49:05 PM »
I haven’t followed this thread so I apologize if I am repeating anything that has already been covered. But it appears to me that there is some diffraction of light caused by the aperture in the camera that is causing some “starburst effect” that is being confused with a bullet impact defect in the windshield. I have circled in red another area of bright white light that gives a similar effect. I don’t know exactly what the source of that white light is. Maybe someone else has an idea. Best I can tell, there is no windshield defect that corresponds to the “starburst” I have circled in red. Please let me know if you have an idea of the source of this patch of bright white light.  Thanks.



That lower "starburst" look s like it's merely a relection of the sun. In the car behind, it's reflecting off the front of the hood:


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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #292 on: February 13, 2024, 12:49:05 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #293 on: February 13, 2024, 01:12:43 PM »
That lower "starburst" look s like it's merely a relection of the sun. In the car behind, it's reflecting off the front of the hood:




I think that theory is worthy of testing in a 3D model. Your idea is that the windshield is reflecting the sun back towards the camera (if I understand you correctly). The sun’s position in the sky and the positions of the camera and windshield (and its relative angles) can be modeled in 3D. That might help to rule this theory in or out.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #294 on: February 13, 2024, 04:06:43 PM »

I think that theory is worthy of testing in a 3D model. Your idea is that the windshield is reflecting the sun back towards the camera (if I understand you correctly). The sun’s position in the sky and the positions of the camera and windshield (and its relative angles) can be modeled in 3D. That might help to rule this theory in or out.


I have done a quick study using my 3D model and found that the sun’s position at 12:30pm on 11/22/63 is basically behind and above the camera. So, it seems possible to me that we are seeing a reflection of the sun on the windshield inside the red circle that I drew. However, my model is relatively crude and generic, so I cannot say for sure that that is what we are seeing in Altgen’s photo. The associated starburst effect appears to me to be similar to the one on the bright spot above JFK’s left shoulder. These starburst effects are caused by refracted light created by the aperture of the camera. So, I see no reason to believe that there is a defect in the windshield at the time the Altgens 6 photo was taken.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 04:08:05 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #294 on: February 13, 2024, 04:06:43 PM »


Online Jim Hawthorn

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Re: Bullet hole in windshield on JFK's Limo
« Reply #295 on: February 13, 2024, 04:27:19 PM »
These starburst effects are caused by refracted light created by the aperture of the camera. So, I see no reason to believe that there is a defect in the windshield at the time the Altgens 6 photo was taken.

The upper zone (which I'm suggesting is a bullet impact) isn't a reflection like the one lower down. It doesn't have the same intensity at all. It's in front of Kennedy's shoulder (as you can see in the extreme zoom) and it merges with the woman's bag at the rear.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 04:35:35 PM by Jim Hawthorn »