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Author Topic: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle  (Read 19001 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #240 on: October 04, 2019, 07:38:51 PM »
Let's not get too far off topic. I have already changed it enough to---LHO ordered the weapons? Proof that it's obvious? Also ...the serial # is incomplete. In addition --it is obvious [apparently] that bullets for the S&W must have been obtained in a grab bag from some gun shop. 
 I have gone through the DVP links and the links that he links and remain unconvinced that Oswald ordered/obtained the guns.
Even David Von Pein seemed confused as he amended his conclusions several times...That type of paperwork would very likely get thrown away after Oswald picked up his merchandise. A customer submits notification that they have a delivery and so the service employee tosses this  proof of pickup away? Just routine huh?
Did Oswald pick up the S&W at the railway office or the post office? It only matters that he picked it up somewhere because they say he did.

it is obvious [apparently] that bullets for the S&W must have been obtained in a grab bag from some gun shop. 

The spent 38 cases look like they been in a leather cartridge belt in a damp or humid climate....It's difficult to be sure when one has only photos of the cases ...but... They appear to be corroded as happens when cartridges are stored in a cartridge belt.  Cops routinely store ammo in a cartridge belt....and if they fail to rotate the ammo and use up the old ammo, on the firing range, and replace the old cartridges with new fresh ammo, the cartridges become corroded.   Also the fact that there were two different brands of ammo is an indication that the shells could have been in a cop's cartridge belt.  The spent shells were manufactured by Winchester and Remington Peters ....These shells were commonly used by Police Departments throughout the country....and therefore it was not uncommon for a cop's cartridge belt to contain a mixture of cartridges. 

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #240 on: October 04, 2019, 07:38:51 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #241 on: October 04, 2019, 07:56:31 PM »
But there isn’t any evidence that V510210 was even there in the theater.

V510210 ???   "V"??  On the evidence list..... The S&W revolver is identified by the serial # 510210....  There is no "V" preceding the number.
Quote
Mr. BALL. Now, what serial number did the FBI give you?
Mr. MICHAELIS. V, as in victory, 510210-65248.
Mr. BALL. Now, those two numbers signify what?
Mr. MICHAELIS. The first number, V510210, is commonly described as the butt number, while the second number, 65248, usually is described as the crane number.
Mr. BALL. Now, the serial numbers are stamped where on the gun?
Mr. MICHAELIS. As mentioned before, the first number is on the butt of the gun.
Mr. BALL. I see.
Mr. MICHAELIS. And also it appears on the lower part of the barrel.
Furthermore, it appears also on the outside rim of the cylinder of the gun. In other words, the first number, 510210, appears three times on the gun.
Mr. BALL. And that is usually known as the serial number of the gun; is that right?
Mr. MICHAELIS. Yes. But, we are---it is required that since Smith & Wesson revolvers carry two kinds of serial numbers, also to list the so-called crane number.
Mr. BALL. Is that also known as the assembly number, the crane number?
Mr. MICHAELIS. I am not familiar with the word assembly number.....
Why did he stop short when he said "Yes but we are...." Did someone shake their head at him?
"We are'' What? Required to list the complete numbers on the invoice?
Mr Michaelis boss [Mr Rose] ---- Why was he hanging out? 
Quote
The testimony of Heinz W. Michaelis was taken at 10 a.m., on May 11, 1964, at 1200 North Soto Street, Los Angeles, Calif., by Mr. Joseph A. Ball, assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Mr. George A. Rose, President of George Rose & Co., was present.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #242 on: October 04, 2019, 11:32:39 PM »
Why did he stop short when he said "Yes but we are...." Did someone shake their head at him?
"We are'' What? Required to list the complete numbers on the invoice?
Mr Michaelis boss [Mr Rose] ---- Why was he hanging out?

The first number, V510210, is commonly described as the butt number, while the second number, 65248, usually is described as the crane number.

So now not only did the revolver not have the "V" preceding the serial number .....it also apparently did not have the number 65248 stamped on it....   


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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #242 on: October 04, 2019, 11:32:39 PM »

Online David Von Pein

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #243 on: October 05, 2019, 12:25:57 AM »
Prove that the control number above the serial number was an actual Klein's control number, then you have a minute chance of keeping your fantasy alive.

Good luck!

Waldman Exhibit No. 4 (below) proves that Klein's assigned the Control Number of VC-836 to the exact rifle that Klein's shipped to Oswald, Serial Number C2766....

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0362b.htm

And the VC-836 / C2766 match is confirmed by Klein's Vice President William J. Waldman in his Warren Commission
testimony (at 7 H 364)....

Mr. BELIN. Well, I hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 and ask you to state if you know what this is.
Mr. WALDMAN. This is the record created by us showing the control number we have assigned to the gun together with the serial number that is imprinted in the frame of the gun.
Mr. BELIN. Now, this is a photostat, I believe, of records you have in front of you on your desk right now?
Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. Do you find anywhere on Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 the serial number C2766?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And what is your control number for that?
Mr. WALDMAN. Our control number for that is VC-836.


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Am I supposed to now believe that the document marked as Waldman Exhibit No. #4 is a fake document too? And am I therefore also supposed to believe that William Waldman was lying through his teeth in his above testimony?

I'll repeat here something I asked the stubborn batch of conspiracy theorists at The Education Forum a few years ago....

How many things that appear to be kosher does it take to make an item cross over into the category of "Real and Legitimate"? Or is that a stupid question to ask a conspiracy believer?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1058.html
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 01:24:59 AM by David Von Pein »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #244 on: October 05, 2019, 04:47:50 AM »
Did Oswald pick up the S&W at the railway office or the post office? It only matters that he picked it up somewhere because they say he did.

Whoever picked it up (if indeed it was picked up by anybody) would have done so at the Railway Express office.

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #244 on: October 05, 2019, 04:47:50 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #245 on: October 05, 2019, 04:53:52 AM »
Waldman Exhibit No. 4 (below) proves that Klein's assigned the Control Number of VC-836 to the exact rifle that Klein's shipped to Oswald, Serial Number C2766....

“Shipped to Oswald”. LOL.

Offline Otto Beck

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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #246 on: October 05, 2019, 07:17:48 AM »
Waldman Exhibit No. 4 (below) proves that Klein's assigned the Control Number of VC-836 to the exact rifle that Klein's shipped to Oswald, Serial Number C2766....

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/html/WH_Vol21_0362b.htm

And the VC-836 / C2766 match is confirmed by Klein's Vice President William J. Waldman in his Warren Commission
testimony (at 7 H 364)....

Mr. BELIN. Well, I hand you what has been marked as Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 and ask you to state if you know what this is.
Mr. WALDMAN. This is the record created by us showing the control number we have assigned to the gun together with the serial number that is imprinted in the frame of the gun.
Mr. BELIN. Now, this is a photostat, I believe, of records you have in front of you on your desk right now?
Mr. WALDMAN. That's correct.
Mr. BELIN. Do you find anywhere on Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 4 the serial number C2766?
Mr. WALDMAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And what is your control number for that?
Mr. WALDMAN. Our control number for that is VC-836.


------------

Am I supposed to now believe that the document marked as Waldman Exhibit No. #4 is a fake document too? And am I therefore also supposed to believe that William Waldman was lying through his teeth in his above testimony?

I'll repeat here something I asked the stubborn batch of conspiracy theorists at The Education Forum a few years ago....

How many things that appear to be kosher does it take to make an item cross over into the category of "Real and Legitimate"? Or is that a stupid question to ask a conspiracy believer?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1058.html

"appear to be kosher" -- LOL

Waldman Exhibit No. 4 proves exactly nothing unless you can show those numbers were entered into the master book (7H371),

Mr. BELIN. Do you have any master control ledger or book of any kind that has these control numbers on them?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes. One copy is sent to what we call the booking department, and those are put into a master book, control book.
Mr. BELIN. Are you required by law to keep records of serial numbers of guns?
Mr. SCIBOR. Yes.

Can you do it?


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Re: Lee Harvey Oswald Ordered The Rifle
« Reply #246 on: October 05, 2019, 07:17:48 AM »

 

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