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Author Topic: Prayer Woman  (Read 271481 times)

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #290 on: June 16, 2018, 04:48:09 PM »
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Yes, but he's talking about an interaction with Sarah down at the bottom of the steps. Why did you leave this detail out? Do you lack quotation analysis skills?


No, you and Barry are wrong...Go back and listen again...Because the Prayer Man nuts are so desperate to focus on specks that they can use to ignore the rest of the overwhelming evidence they are assuming Frazier is talking about walking down the steps to the bottom step in order to encounter Gloria Calvery...He's not...What he is saying there is he walked up to the edge of the landing by the first step down...Proof of this is when he describes encountering Calvery he then tells of turning to Sarah up on the landing in order to absorb what Calvery had said...Frazier doesn't say "I walked back up to the landing and then confronted Sarah"...Watch the video...Frazier goes from encountering Calvery to turning to Sarah on the landing immediately...That is because he is on the landing the whole time...The testimony says Shelley & Lovelady spoke to Calvery before leaving the steps...Not Shelley, Lovelady and Frazier...

Sorry Alan but anyone who had a skilled and competent grasp of the evidence and detective work would realize that for Frazier to be on the bottom step while encountering Calvery would require him to be caught in Darnell going back up to the landing...There isn't enough time for Frazier to travel down to the bottom step and back up and the only reason you are not realizing this is because your circuits are corrupted by desperation to bend everything towards Prayer Man...This is good evidence of how the Prayer Man theory came about and the minds that created it and how...

You tried to seize on this in order to ignore the nod to the right Frazier made that you omitted in your response...

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #290 on: June 16, 2018, 04:48:09 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #291 on: June 16, 2018, 04:53:28 PM »
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No, you and Barry are wrong...Go back and listen again...Because the Prayer Man nuts are so desperate to focus on specks that they can use to ignore the rest of the overwhelming evidence they are assuming Frazier is talking about walking down the steps to the bottom step in order to encounter Gloria Calvery...He's not...What he is saying there is he walked up to the edge of the landing by the first step down...Proof of this is when he describes encountering Calvery he then tells of turning to Sarah up on the landing in order to absorb what Calvery had said...Frazier doesn't say "I walked back up to the landing and then confronted Sarah"...Watch the video...Frazier goes from encountering Calvery to turning to Sarah on the landing immediately...That is because he is on the landing the whole time...The testimony says Shelley & Lovelady spoke to Calvery before leaving the steps...Not Shelley, Lovelady and Frazier...

Sorry Alan but anyone who had a skilled and competent grasp of the evidence and detective work would realize that for Frazier to be on the bottom step while encountering Calvery would require him to be caught in Darnell going back up to the landing...There isn't enough time for Frazier to travel down to the bottom step and back up and the only reason you are not realizing this is because your circuits are corrupted by desperation to bend everything towards Prayer Man...This is good evidence of how the Prayer Man theory came about and the minds that created it and how...

You tried to seize on this in order to ignore the nod to the right Frazier made that you omitted in your response...

Here is what Frazier actually says: "I had walked down and was standing in front of the first step". A different scene to what Darnell shows. Stop wriggling!

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #292 on: June 16, 2018, 04:56:05 PM »
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What are you talking about? Murphy sided 100% with Carolyn Arnold. His whole argument was that Oswald's being in the lunch room a few minutes before the assassination makes a joke of what the interrogation reports claimed he said.

It seems you've never even read the original Oswald Leaving TSBD? thread on the other forum. Uncredible!


Alan gets out of town quicker than Sean Murphy before he has to answer the entire post and all the evidence in it...

The Prayer Man cult has no problem with Murphy disappearing in 2013...The same year that Frazier came out in public with his identifying the person next to him as being Sarah Stanton...What a coincidence!

No credible assassination theorist has ever just disappeared...Murphy scooted because he knew he couldn't answer to his BS once non-cultists caught up to it...

Moderated debate would say "Wait a minute Mr Ford...Not so fast...Answer the rest of what he said"...Refusal or dishonest answers would then result in penalties...



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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #292 on: June 16, 2018, 04:56:05 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #293 on: June 16, 2018, 05:00:33 PM »
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Alan gets out of town quicker than Sean Murphy before he has to answer the entire post and all the evidence in it...

The Prayer Man cult has no problem with Murphy disappearing in 2013...The same year that Frazier came out in public with his identifying the person next to him as being Sarah Stanton...What a coincidence!

No credible assassination theorist has ever just disappeared...Murphy scooted because he knew he couldn't answer to his BS once non-cultists caught up to it...

Moderated debate would say "Wait a minute Mr Ford...Not so fast...Answer the rest of what he said"...Refusal or dishonest answers would then result in penalties...

Who cares about the history behind what you call the 'Prayer Man cult'? A theory was developed back in 2013 and you have just exposed the fact that you're pig ignorant of one of its major elements (Carolyn Arnold seeing Oswald in the lunchroom). Sad!

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #294 on: June 16, 2018, 05:07:12 PM »
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Here is what Frazier actually says: "I had walked down and was standing in front of the first step". A different scene to what Darnell shows. Stop wriggling!

You are deliberately not answering the rest of what I said...You're not credible...

Frazier did not have time to make that trip and get back up to the landing in Darnell...

Yes, a different scene than what Darnell shows...You Prayer Man crazies are so divorced from reality, and so self-deluded by your lies, that you make fools of yourselves by not realizing that YES the Darnell film shows reality and proves my point...That Frazier isn't seen going back up to the landing like would be required if he had walked down to the bottom step...Your logic is so perverted that you strongly make my point for me yet phrase it as if it backed you...

The "first step" Frazier is referencing is the first step down from the landing...You are deliberately ignoring that the video shows Frazier saying he immediately looked at Sarah after hearing this from Calvery...If Frazier was at the bottom step he couldn't immediately turn to Sarah like he says...He would have had to walk back up to the landing to do so...

You and Barry use references to Frazier's actions in the video to make your bogus points but ignore those same clear actions when they prove what I am saying...

Twice now you have avoided addressing how Frazier nods to his right and shifts his eyes rightward when referring to Sarah...


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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #294 on: June 16, 2018, 05:07:12 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #295 on: June 16, 2018, 05:10:34 PM »
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You are deliberately not answering the rest of what I said...You're not credible...

Frazier did not have time to make that trip and get back up to the landing in Darnell...

Yes, a different scene than what Darnell shows...You Prayer Man crazies are so divorced from reality, and so self-deluded by your lies, that you make fools of yourselves by not realizing that YES the Darnell film shows reality and proves my point...That Frazier isn't seen going back up to the landing like would be required if he had walked down to the bottom step...Your logic is so perverted that you strongly make my point for me yet phrase it as if it backed you...

The "first step" Frazier is referencing is the first step down from the landing...You are deliberately ignoring that the video shows Frazier saying he immediately looked at Sarah after hearing this from Calvery...If Frazier was at the bottom step he couldn't immediately turn to Sarah like he says...He would have had to walk back up to the landing to do so...

You and Barry use references to Frazier's actions in the video to make your bogus points but ignore those same clear actions when they prove what I am saying...

Twice now you have avoided addressing how Frazier nods to his right and shifts his eyes rightward when referring to Sarah...

No, I've quoted him accurately which you didn't do. When are you going to deal with Barry's point that twice Frazier gestures left with his left hand when mentioning Sarah at the top of the steps as the motorcade was passing? How many more times are you going to avoid addressing it?

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #296 on: June 16, 2018, 05:14:04 PM »
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Who cares about the history behind what you call the 'Prayer Man cult'? A theory was developed back in 2013 and you have just exposed the fact that you're pig ignorant of one of its major elements (Carolyn Arnold seeing Oswald in the lunchroom). Sad!

I think this can be safely interpreted as Alan ignoring the gist of what has been established that Kamp took the side of FBI and its lies against a main witness...That makes Kamp a Warren Commission apologist when he needs their deception to get him out of evidence he knows refutes him...

Since Alan is making no effort at honestly addressing this I think we can thank him for the quick victory and his folding by refusing to answer the point that is being made and therefore indirectly conceding...

I hope the JFK research community has the sense to see the danger this sort of person and material poses to the credible assassination research world and its conspiracy evidence...

Alan is dodging that the current Prayer Man theory on the JFK internet is claiming Carolyn Arnold lied and did not see Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room... 

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #296 on: June 16, 2018, 05:14:04 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #297 on: June 16, 2018, 05:21:20 PM »
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I think this can be safely interpreted as Alan ignoring the gist of what has been established that Kamp took the side of FBI and its lies against a main witness...That makes Kamp a Warren Commission apologist when he needs their deception to get him out of evidence he knows refutes him...

Since Alan is making no effort at honestly addressing this I think we can thank him for the quick victory and his folding by refusing to answer the point that is being made and therefore indirectly conceding...

I hope the JFK research community has the sense to see the danger this sort of person and material poses to the credible assassination research world and its conspiracy evidence...

Alan is dodging that the current Prayer Man theory on the JFK internet is claiming Carolyn Arnold lied and did not see Oswald in the 2nd floor lunch room...


I'll take this as a concession that you are unfamiliar with the original PrayerMan theory and, in your strange obsession with a number of individuals elsewhere, have spent the last ages fighting a complete straw man.

You have quite the knack for destroying your own theories. First you rule out Sarah Stanton as PM by publishing a 1962-4 photo of her. Then you give a huge shot in the arm to the LHO=PM theory by uncovering Sarah Stanton's encounter with LHO near the second floor lunchroom which supports what Carolyn Arnold was telling people back in 1978.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #297 on: June 16, 2018, 05:21:20 PM »

Offline Brian Doyle

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #298 on: June 16, 2018, 05:31:01 PM »
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No, I've quoted him accurately which you didn't do. When are you going to deal with Barry's point that twice Frazier gestures left with his left hand when mentioning Sarah at the top of the steps as the motorcade was passing? How many more times are you going to avoid addressing it?

I don't think Alan should be taken seriously...Duncan pointed-out that the time period mentioned by Frazier near the 5 minute mark is before Wiegman and may be as much as 1 minute before Darnell...It has been made clear already that even if Frazier gestured to his left that the time period in question makes his movements irrelevant...I don't think Frazier was gesturing Sarah's location at that point...

To ignore that Frazier's movements during his description of the Darnell scene are THE most relevant and try to force evidence that has been reasonably considered irrelevant in its place shows an outward contempt towards honest argument and site conduct...A modicum of reasoned, gentlemanly debate is assumed in this community and a person who tries to force such dubious contempt in the face of sound logic and evidence should have his ability to participate considered...

Alan is being deliberately dishonest here and his deceit does not deserve the dignity of a response...He knows as well as I do that the accuracy of Frazier's exact words was not was I was discussing...I was clearly saying he and Barry were misconstruing his words and there was good evidence to prove it...We can assume that Alan's shameful attempt to avoid addressing that evidence is a tacit admission of its correctness and therefore dispense with the need of answering Alan's rank dishonesty...

The film evidence shows that Frazier did not have time to go to the bottom step and get back up without being seen in Darnell...Frazier's further words that Alan is deliberately ignoring prove that he was on the landing the whole time and never left it...If we follow Frazier's words with the accuracy Alan appeals to he clearly says that when he encountered Calvery's information at that step he immediately turned to Sarah to confront her on it...He couldn't have turned to Sarah immediately if he were on the bottom step...It is clear from Frazier's further words that Alan ignores that he was talking about the first step down from the landing...I think we can safely interpret Alan's sloppy ignoring of this as a tacit admission of its rightness...



 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 05:55:15 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #299 on: June 16, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
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Which is exactly what Otis Williams, who was standing to the west of the entrance railing, also said.

Are you seriously trying to tell us that the white/blonde haired woman identified as Sarah Stanton in a photo from 1962-4 could possibly be Prayer Person? Are you blind?

Of course no surprise at insults coming, again, from AlanFord.

You cannot place LeeHarveyOswald on the TSBD Elm St stairs/landing, in shadow, in the corner, as filmed at and/or very close to the time of the shooting that fatally wounded USP JohnKennedySr, and critically wounded TxG JohnConnallyJr.

For the record, I am not "telling" you anything. I have expressed my evidence/study/familiarity based conclusions about certain aspects of the events of 11/22/'63, through 11/24/'63.

As I can, and do, recall that weekend, that means familiarity exceeds 50 years.

 And, serious study exceeds 30 years.

But, I do not post and/or make statements about the event as if I were there and an eyewitness to the event itself, as well as an eyewitness to various statements/testimonial activities.

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Re: Prayer Woman
« Reply #299 on: June 16, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »

 

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