Why did Oswald go get his revolver?

[John Corbett]

Very hard for me to see how Oswald "knows he's been framed" unless he at least knows his rifle is in the building. That's really the only thing that "frames" him. So how does he know it's in the building - does he think he's brought it for "show and tell" like we used to do in second grade? Unless he knew "Oh, my God, they have framed me as the assassin of JFK!" his actions make no sense. The CT scenarios where the conspirators removed the rifle from the Paine garage and planted it in the TSBD, or Oswald was instructed to shoot and miss as part of a political message of some sort, are just desperate ad hoc efforts. I really can't think of any plausible "framing" scenario.

This is exactly what I meant when I started the thread about people overthinking the assassination. Oswald wasn't stupid enough to bring his rifle to work for "show and tell" on a day the POTUS was going to ride past the building. Even sillier that he would fire shots out the window as a political message. The idea that the conspirators planted Oswald's rifle ignores the fact the fibers on the butt plate matched the shirt he was wearing. I don't know why any CT would jump through all these mental hoops when a very plausible explanation is available. Oswald brought the rifle to work to kill JFK which he succeeded in doing. I think it's terribly unfair to Oswald given that this was the first big thing Oswald ever succeeded at in his miserable little life and so many CTs refuse to give him credit for it.

[Martin Weidmann]

Very hard for me to see how Oswald "knows he's been framed" unless he at least knows his rifle is in the building. That's really the only thing that "frames" him. So how does he know it's in the building - does he think he's brought it for "show and tell" like we used to do in second grade? Unless he knew "Oh, my God, they have framed me as the assassin of JFK!" his actions make no sense. The CT scenarios where the conspirators removed the rifle from the Paine garage and planted it in the TSBD, or Oswald was instructed to shoot and miss as part of a political message of some sort, are just desperate ad hoc efforts. I really can't think of any plausible "framing" scenario.

The CT scenarios where the conspirators removed the rifle from the Paine garage and planted it in the TSBD

What if that particular rifle, or any other rifle at all, wasn't in Ruth Paine's garage at all on 21 November 63?

There is the assumption that it was there, but the reality is that nobody has seen it in the garage for weeks prior to the assassination.

[Lance Payette]

The CT scenarios where the conspirators removed the rifle from the Paine garage and planted it in the TSBD

What if that particular rifle, or any other rifle at all, wasn't in Ruth Paine's garage at all on 21 November 63?

There is the assumption that it was there, but the reality is that nobody has seen it in the garage for weeks prior to the assassination.

OK, fine, but doesn't that leave the same issue as to why Oswald thinks he's been framed? Say the rifle was removed from the garage two weeks previously, or a month, or whatever. Or it never was in the garage. I don't see any way that Oswald realizes he's been framed within minutes of the assassination unless the M-C actually was his rifle and he knew it was in the building. What other scenario is there where he realizes "I've been framed for the assassination of JFK and I need to hightail it out of here and get my revolver." Even if he'd been a knowing cog in some event he didn't think was an assassination (perhaps a protest of some sort), and then realized it was an assassination, it's hard for me to make sense of his subsequent actions on that basis - unless he knew his rifle was in the building.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

OK, fine, but doesn't that leave the same issue as to why Oswald thinks he's been framed? Say the rifle was removed from the garage two weeks previously, or a month, or whatever. Or it never was in the garage. I don't see any way that Oswald realizes he's been framed within minutes of the assassination unless the M-C actually was his rifle and he knew it was in the building. What other scenario is there where he realizes "I've been framed for the assassination of JFK and I need to hightail it out of here and get my revolver." Even if he'd been a knowing cog in some event he didn't think was an assassination (perhaps a protest of some sort), and then realized it was an assassination, it's hard for me to make sense of his subsequent actions on that basis - unless he knew his rifle was in the building.

It's 2-3? minutes after the "event" that took place outside the building where he works. He's having lunch, hears this commotion outside, a police officer confronts him and lets him go, someone says the President was shot or maybe not. This is all he knows.

So he goes outside, sees this absolute chaos taking place, police running around with guns drawn, people yelling and screaming. Many people are going to the grassy knoll, the fence, the overpass. Some say the President was shot. Others say otherwise. It's all confusion.

From this limited information the innocent Oswald determines he's being framed? For what exactly? How can he be framed? He's having lunch. He doesn't know where the shots came from. 

Moreover, during his journey from work to the rooming house he never inquires about what happened. He doesn't talk to any co-workers, he shows no interest in learning about what happened, he ignores the TV that is on as he goes to his room, he doesn't ask Roberts about any news. For a guy thinking he's being framed he sure doesn't want to find out anything that might help exonerate him. Not exactly Richard Kimble looking for a one armed man.

The very political Oswald shows no interest at all in what happened. In this world, none of this makes sense. In Oswald defender world it's all assumptions and suppositions.

[Richard Smith]

If Oswald was a patsy, there would have been a car waiting for him near the TSBD that would have driven him to his death. I doubt they would have found his body.

If Oswald was a patsy, and the plan was to kill him to keep him from talking, then he is killed in the TSBD or Texas Theatre.  The last thing that the conspirators could allow is for him to be arrested and given a chance to speak to law enforcement, a lawyer, and a room full of reporters.  There was ample opportunity to the DPD or someone in law enforcement to kill him.  Particularly at the TT when he was resisting arrest while trying to pull out a gun after just having killed another police officer.  A Jack Ruby scenario which requires him to commit murder on national TV and spend the rest of his life in jail on behalf of the conspirators to silence Oswald is ludicrous as a plan.

[Charles Collins]

Sadly, JD Tippit found out the hard way why LHO retrieved his revolver.….  LHO simply intended to resist any attempts of his capture. He didn’t want to “go quietly”. Ironically, LHO never uttered another word after Ruby discharged HIS revolver into LHO’s abdomen.

[Lance Payette]

It's 2-3? minutes after the "event" that took place outside the building where he works. He's having lunch, hears this commotion outside, a police officer confronts him and lets him go, someone says the President was shot or maybe not. This is all he knows.

So he goes outside, sees this absolute chaos taking place, police running around with guns drawn, people yelling and screaming. Many people are going to the grassy knoll, the fence, the overpass. Some say the President was shot. Others say otherwise. It's all confusion.

From this limited information the innocent Oswald determines he's being framed? For what exactly? How can he be framed? He's having lunch. He doesn't know where the shots came from. 

Moreover, during his journey from work to the rooming house he never inquires about what happened. He doesn't talk to any co-workers, he shows no interest in learning about what happened, he ignores the TV that is on as he goes to his room, he doesn't ask Roberts about any news. For a guy thinking he's being framed he sure doesn't want to find out anything that might help exonerate him. Not exactly a Richard Kimble here looking for a one armed shooter.

The very political Oswald shows no interest at all in what happened. In this world, none of this makes sense. In Oswald defender world it's all assumptions and suppositions.

As in the lunchroom encounter with Baker, Oswald seems to have been in a weird dissociative state. With Baker, Whaley and Roberts, it would seem that feigned astonishment would have served his interests: "What? The President was shot? What happened? I was eating lunch and missed the whole thing." With Roberts and Whaley, he might even have asked questions that would have aided his escape: "Do they know who did it? Have they captured anyone?" Instead, literally nothing. But then in the theater and in custody, he snaps out of it and is the typical Oswald. Very odd, or at least it seems so to me.

The Baker encounter is really bizarre. Baker rushes into the building in search of a suspect. He encounters this zombie in the lunchroom who seems oblivious to everything that has happened and doesn't even ask "What's this all about?" when a gun is stuck in his stomach. Then Baker just blithely accepts Truly's word that the zombie works in the building, as though someone who works in the building couldn't still be a suspect. That might be plausible if the zombie were sitting at a table munching on a sandwich and reading a newspaper, but under the circumstances the whole thing seems bizarre to me.