Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272

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Online Tom Graves

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #154 on: Yesterday at 10:47:07 PM »
[...]

You're so full of beans I can smell you from here.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #155 on: Yesterday at 11:40:51 PM »
I choose to believe the witnesses whose account jibe with the Z-film which is probably a minority of the witnesses.

When you say "the preponderance of all the rest of the evidence" you really mean the preponderance of the witnesses accounts of the shooting. You rarely if ever offer hard evidence to support you beliefs. Since you seem to place most of your faith in the witnesses over the forensic evidence, explain this:

https://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-assassination-documents/grassy-knoll-witnesses

Witnesses to Shots from the Grassy Knoll
Here is a list, in alphabetical order by surname, and no doubt incomplete, of those witnesses to President Kennedy’s assassination who claimed that one or more shots came from the general direction of the grassy knoll:
Victoria Adams
Danny Garcia Arce
Virginia Baker (née Rackley)
Jane Berry
Charles Brehm
Ochus Campbell
Faye Chism
John Chism
Harold Elkins
Ronald Fischer
Buell Wesley Frazier
Dorothy Garner
Jean Hill
Sam Holland
Ed Johnson
Dolores Kounas
Paul Landis
Billy Lovelady
Austin Miller
A.J. Millican
Luke Mooney
Thomas Murphy
Jean Newman
William Newman
Kenneth O’Donnell and David Powers
Roberta Parker
Frank Reilly
Arnold Rowland
Edgar Smith
Joe Marshall Smith
Forrest Sorrels
James Tague
Roy Truly
Harry Weatherford
Seymour Weitzman
Otis Williams
Mary Woodward
Abraham Zapruder

How do you suppose 38 earwitnesses pointed to the same wrong location as the source of the shots? Did these witnesses corroborate each other?
That is pretty simple to explain because humans perceive sound direction not source direction.

The perceived direction of a sound is something your brain figures out by itself from the time difference between the arrival of a sound wave front at the left ear and the arrival of that same wave front at the right ear.  The brain then interprets that to be the same direction as the source. That is how we evolved. And on the buildingless, treeless African savannah that was a pretty good way to determine the sound source. The problem is that this time difference is skewed if sound wave fronts are arriving from multiple directions.
 
In Dealey plaza with all the concrete surfaces including large pillars and curved pergola walls, the direction of the sound waves was not necessarily the direction of the source of the sound: the SE 6th floor TSBD.

So there were many witnesses whose brain was confused about where exactly it appeared the sound came from.  Few of those far away from the corner of Houston and Elm could identify a specific location of the source. Within those 38 witnesses there is a large range in where they thought the shots came from.  Many admitted confusion about where the sounds came from e.g. Powers thought it came from his right or from the underpass. Mary Woodward also thought the sounds came from “possibly behind her” or from the right where the underpass was located.

The fact that the witnesses in different locations differed on where they perceived the source was located but almost all thought three shots appeared to them to come from the same direction tells you that the sounds reaching their ears came from more than one direction and those directions differed depending on where the witness was located
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:55:00 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #156 on: Yesterday at 11:47:34 PM »
You're so full of beans I can smell you from here.
Thank-you for providing an excellent example from the “I can’t win the argument so I will resort to the ad hominem approach” school of rhetoric.

Online John Corbett

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #157 on: Yesterday at 11:57:23 PM »
That is pretty simple to explain because humans perceive sound direction not source direction.

The perceived direction of a sound is something your brain figures out by itself from the time difference between the arrival of a sound wave front at the left ear and the arrival of that same wave front at the right ear.  The brain then interprets that to be the same direction as the source. That is how we evolved. And on the buildingless, treeless African savannah that was a pretty good way to determine the sound source. The problem is that this time difference is skewed if sound wave fronts are arriving from multiple directions.
 
In Dealey plaza with all the concrete surfaces including large pillars and curved pergola walls, the direction of the sound waves was not necessarily the direction of the source of the sound: the SE 6th floor TSBD.

So there were many witnesses whose brain told them where it appeared the sound came from.  Few of those far away from the corner of Houston and Elm could identify a specific location of the source. Within those 38 witnesses there is a large range in where they thought the shots came from.  Many admitted confusion about where the sounds came from e.g. Powers thought it came from his right or from the underpass. Mary Woodward also thought the sounds came from “possibly behind her” or from the right where the underpass was located.

The fact that the witnesses in different locations and differed on where they perceived the source was located but almost all thought three shots appeared to them to come from the same direction tells you that the sounds reaching their ears came from more than one direction.

It's all earwitness evidence and it is all subject to error by large numbers of people. Anyone who bases their beliefs primary on what earwitnesses said has a very shaky foundation.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #158 on: Today at 02:11:03 AM »
It's all earwitness evidence and it is all subject to error by large numbers of people. Anyone who bases their beliefs primary on what earwitnesses said has a very shaky foundation.
So you must have absolutely no confidence in the accuracy of any memory that you have.

Online John Corbett

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #159 on: Today at 02:28:44 AM »
So you must have absolutely no confidence in the accuracy of any memory that you have.

I know I remember somethings but I also know of a number of instances where I misremembered what happened. Sometimes I have a resource that will tell me if what I remembered is correct or not. Sometimes I am and sometimes I am not.

On this issue, while the 1.....2...3 shot spacing is the majority opinion, it is hardly unanimous. Others remember it as 1....2....3 and others remember it as 1...2......3. I believe the first two were about 1 second closer together than the last 2, but I base that on only one witness,  Zapruder's camera. That has never lied to me.

Believe it or not, when I first began discussing the JFKA in online forums, I had formulated a theory very similar to yours. I can't remember the specifics but I led myself to believe JFK was hit by the first and third shots and JBC by the second. I can't say specifically but I think I placed the first shot somewhere in the Z180s and JBC somewhere in the Z230s. I came up with all kinds of excuses for why that didn't jibe with the Z-film. I finally gave up because I was uncomfortable with all the mental gymnastics I had to go through to convince myself that the two men were hit by separate shots. Finally I had to admit to myself that I was wrong and started figuring out what really happened once I put my faith in the visual evidence of the Z-film. That has never led me astray. I have fine tuned my conclusions over the years but it has been basically unchanged for decades. The first shot missed. JFK and JBC were hit by the second shot. The third shot was the kill shot.
« Last Edit: Today at 02:41:22 AM by John Corbett »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: Gov. John Connally Grips His White Stetson Hat at Z-272
« Reply #160 on: Today at 02:52:44 AM »
I know I remember somethings but I also know of a number of instances where I misremembered what happened. Sometimes I have a resource that will tell me if what I remembered is correct or not. Sometimes I am and sometimes I am not.
If you observed a car accident a few hours ago do you think that you could give an account of details of what occurred that are clear in your mind?  If so, I gather you would still think that your recollection, though clear in your memory a few hours after the events is unreliable.