How Did Bart Kamp Create The Lovelady Image?

[Dan O'meara]

     Based on the timeline of Office Baker above, Shelley/Lovelady have 35 seconds at this point to arrive at the TSBD 1st Floor Loading Dock. And, as the above still frame makes clear, Shelley/Lovelady are Not even moving toward the TSBD front door. PLus, the steps leading up to the landing/front door are Jammed Packed with people. Whenever they do start toward the TSBD front door, Shelley/Lovelady would Not be moving toward the front door in a straight line. Their advancing toward the front door would be obstructed. The same goes for their advancing through the TSBD Lobby. The 1 Minute Tick/Tock does Not permit Shelley/Lovelady to reach the freight elevator.  Adams claiming that it took her 1 Minute MAX to go from the window to the 1st floor, has to be wrong for her to see Shelley and Lovelady at the freight elevator.

Look at Truly's starting position.
Does it look like he's moving toward the TSBD front door?
How do you reconcile this?

[Royell Storing]

Look at Truly's starting position.
Does it look like he's moving toward the TSBD front door?
How do you reconcile this?

   This is why I continue to question these accepted timelines. If you look at the Sixth Floor/Darnell Film opening frames, the driver for camera car #2 is already standing outside of the car. Not in the process of getting out of the car, but standing flatfooted on the ground. Those cars were stopped for an extended period of time. The WC did all they could to quickly get Officer Baker inside the TSBD in order for him to quickly confront Oswald inside the 2ND floor lunchroom. The longer it might take for Baker to confront Oswald, the more it would look like Oswald was casually sitting inside the Lunchroom drinking a soda pop, etc. Also, Wiegman filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass. And Wiegman was inside Camera Car #1. Wiegman jumped out of that car because it was moving far too slow. The longer it takes for the JFK Limo to go under the Triple Underpass, the more it looks like there was a JFK Limo STOP. I believe the :20 second time stamp applied to Officer Baker crossing the Island and then his :30 second time stamp of entering the TSBD, was orchestrated with the possible JFK Limo STOP and the Oswald/Baker 2nd Floor confrontation in mind. 

[Tom Graves]

[Truly's not moving towards the steps in Darnell] is why I continue to question these accepted timelines. If you look at the Sixth Floor/Darnell Film opening frames, the driver for camera car #2 is already standing outside of the car. Not in the process of getting out of the car but standing flatfooted on the ground. Those cars were stopped for an extended period of time. The WC did all they could to quickly get Officer Baker inside the TSBD in order for him to quickly confront Oswald inside the 2ND floor lunchroom. The longer it might take for Baker to confront Oswald, the more it would look like Oswald was casually sitting inside the Lunchroom drinking a soda pop, etc. Also, Wiegman filmed the JFK Limo going under the Triple Underpass. And Wiegman was inside Camera Car #1. Wiegman jumped out of that car because it was moving far too slow. The longer it takes for the JFK Limo to go under the Triple Underpass, the more it looks like there was a JFK Limo STOP. I believe the :20 second time stamp applied to Officer Baker crossing the Island and then his :30 second time stamp of entering the TSBD, was orchestrated with the possible JFK Limo STOP and the Oswald/Baker 2nd Floor confrontation in mind.

Dear Stormtrooper Storing,

Paranoiac much?

-- Tom

[Royell Storing]

Dear Stormtrooper Storing,

Paranoiac much?

-- Tom

    How often have You been in bumper-to-bumper traffic, and jumped out of your car after sitting for Under :20 seconds? Does Not happen.

[Tom Graves]

How often have You been in bumper-to-bumper traffic, and jumped out of your car after sitting for Under :20 seconds? Does Not happen.

Boy oh boy oh boy, those CIA/FBI/DPD film alterationists must have been very busy, huh?

[Royell Storing]

Boy oh boy oh boy, those CIA/FBI/DPD film alterationists must have been very busy, huh?

   I asked you how often when sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic have you jumped out of your car after only :15 seconds? Applying a False Timeline to a JFK Assassination Image has absolutely nothing to do with "film alteration".
   The Sixth Floor releasing their opening segment of the Darnell Film screwed the pooch. They Failed to recognize the importance of this Camera Car Driver standing outside of his car BEFORE Officer Baker runs across the Island at the currently accepted :20 seconds after the kill shot. The current Officer Baker :20 second timeline don't fly and this also impacts the timeline of the Officer Baker/Oswald 2nd Floor Lunchroom encounter. 

[Dan O'meara]

Just for the sake of argument, let's say I have vastly more intelligence than you and see where that goes  ...

Hmmm...this superior intelligence you often like to boast about...I've never seen it or anything even remotely like it.
In nearly every interaction we have I make an obvious point and you fall to pieces, often running away.
Sometimes even quitting the forum.
I see you've started with the 'aliens' thing already. I imagine you think this is really clever or something...

Sure, I can agree to anything in the context of a thought experiment. If Shelley and Lovelady were on the TSBD steps when the shooting occurred and at the freight elevators seconds later, logic would dictate that they were teleported by aliens - no, strike that, that they walked back there through the front entrance.

The value of a thought experiment hinges to a large extent on its plausibility. Otherwise, of what use is it? This was the problem with your LBJ-Byrd-Cason-Shelley-Dougherty thought experiment. When you acknowledged that it couldn't account for Oswald, I think most folks sensed the thought air going out of your thought balloon. Poof.

I will admit I haven't read The Girl On the Stairs. However, is it correct that Vicki herself in that book disavows saying she saw Shelley and Lovelady and claiming that the relevant portion of her WC testimony doesn't even sound like her, as Roger Odisio states in this thread at the Ed Forum? https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/30023-vickie-adams-interview/. If that weren't sufficient, the thread opens by linking to a 1966 interview in which Vicki apparently claimed that she did see Shelley! Is Vicki's credibility hanging by a thread, or is that my imagination?

The plausibiity of your thought experiment also hinges on (1) Styles, who was there, either being flat wrong or lying for no apparent reason, and (2) the photo that clearly shows Shelley and Lovelady walking down the Elm Street extension not being Shelley and Lovelady, with fellow gung-ho CTer Bart Kamp having faked said photo for no apparent reason. All of this to prop up some elaborate conspiracy scenario that apparently requires two TSBD clucks like Shelley and Lovelady as well as the WC staff to be at least after-the-fact participants.

Pretty thin thought experiment gruel, it seems to me. Occam and I continue to prefer our version whereby Vicki actually does see Shelley and Lovelady a wee bit later than she recalled, which has the beauty of still allowing CTers to argue that the two cuties were teleported from the fourth floor by aliens and should have heard or encountered Oswald if he'd been coming down the stairs.

Is Vicki's credibility hanging by a thread, or is that my imagination?

There's so many ways to make a fool of you but I can't let the audacity of you, of all people, bringing up 'credibility'.
Let's have a quick look at the credibility of Lovelady regarding his movements after the shooting:
In his affidavit, taken hours after the shooting, he doesn't leave the steps and re-enters the building with Shelley. Is that the truth?
In his FBI statements, he states that he and Shelley ran to where the limo had sped off and hung around there for 5 minutes. Is that the truth?
In his FBI statement, Shelley stated he and Lovelady escorted police officers along the extension and stayed in the railroad yards for 10 minutes. True?
In his WC testimony, Lovelady waited on the steps for at least 3 minutes before heading along the extension. Is that true?
In his HSCA interview he stated that he didn't re-enter the building for 15 - 20 minutes. Is that the truth?
How 'credible' is convicted gun-runner Lovelady? Which of his lies do you choose to opt for?
Incredibly, the answer to that question is that you don't accept any of his lies.
Instead, you made up your own lie in order to account for how Lovelady could have an interaction with Gloria and be seen walking along the extension seconds after the shooting.
The lie you made up was that, immediately after the shooting, Lovelady ran across to the little, old island where he met Gloria before heading along the extension.
How intelligent is that?
Literally make up a scenario that isn't covered in any of the pack of lies Lovelady told about his movements after the shooting. Maybe it's your own credibility that should be examined.