When Was JBC Hit?

[Zeon Mason]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

I’m not certain though depending the path of the bullet  thru the back and exiting the throat without striking any bone, perhaps there was less transfer of momentum than if the bullet had hit some bone and gone they the cavity.

[Andrew Mason]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

Whether the body moves depends on many factors. When a bullet passes completely through tissue like it did with the neck bullet, momentum transferred to the body is less the higher the bullet speed. That is because the resistance force is the same regardless of bullet speed so the impulse to the body (impulse =Force x time = momentum transfer) is proportional to the transit time.

Recoil speed also depends on the mass of the target, including the mass to which the target is connected. In JFK’s case that was the entire upper body because of the very rigid back brace that he was wearing. That brace also resists forward motion of the torso, limiting how far the bullet momentum will move the torso

So if the 10 gram bullet lost 800 fps in passing through JFK (from 2000 to 1200 fps) - a loss of 244 m/s - the momentum imparted to the body would be 2.4 kg m/s. That would cause a 1 kg mass to move at a speed of 2.4 m/s. But JFK’s upper body would weigh about 60% of his 75kg body weight or 45 kg. So the movement would be about 2.4/45 or about 5 cm per second. So in a single frame (1/18.3 of a second) the movement would be a bit less than 3 mm. That might be seen over several frames.  But if he was hit around z193, as I suggest the evidence shows, the subsequent frames are too blurry to see that and then he passes behind the sign.  So it is not surprising that we don’t see any clear movement of JFK from the neck bullet.

[Dan O'meara]

Where in that Z195-z207 sequence of frames does JFK get hit in Andrews scenario?

Should there not be some forward motion of the body if hit in the back by a 2000ft/sec 6.5 mm bullet?

I’m not certain though depending the path of the bullet  thru the back and exiting the throat without striking any bone, perhaps there was less transfer of momentum than if the bullet had hit some bone and gone they the cavity.

In Andrew's scenario JFK is shot at z193, through the oak tree, and he carries on smiling and waving.

This is not a joke or an exaggeration.

It must also be noted that, in Andrew's demented theory, at the same time JBC is hit in the leg by a bullet that hits the bone in his leg....and he doesn't notice it.
According to Andrew's demented theory JFK doesn't realise he's been shot and neither does JBC.

[Dan O'meara]

Wow which one of the 5 theories to choose  from 🤔

1. WC standard : 3 shots from the solitary gunman ( Oswald )using the MC rifle from the SE window 6th floor TSBD  , 1st shot  Z160-170 was a missed shot fired (before Betzner 186 photo) which shot was not heard by Betzner or Willis  2nd shot fired approx at Z224 , the SBT shot, a bullet that went thru 2 bodies , thru flesh and between ribs and thru wrist bone , and was CE 399 , a bullet so marginally deformed that it seems to defy physics.

2. WC (Jack variation)There were only 2 shots fired  from a solitary gunman (Oswald?) using the MC rifle,  1st one at Z224 , and 2nd one at Z313 and that vast majority of witness  that heard 3 shots  must be mistaken.

3. WC (Andrew variation) : 3 shots fired from the solitary gunman (Oswald )using the MC rifle , 1st shot at Z195-200 (thru at least some minimal tree foliage) that hit only JFK. 2nd shot somewhere around Z270 that hit only JC. 3rd shot at Z313 that hit JFK.

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)
 
5. CT (Zeon version) : 4 shots total were fired. 3 loud shots from one gunman in TSBD using a semi auto rifle , 1 suppressed shot by a 2nd gunman in Daltex bldg.
1st shot at Z160-170 was the suppressed shot by Daltex gunman that missed just past JFKs right shoulder. Only a few persons heard this shot . Willis girl slowed and then stopped by Z195 in response to hearing that shot. Amos Euins may have heard that shot also, explaining why he heard 4 shots.
2nd  (1st loud shot heard ) was at Z224 that hit both JFK and JC . That bullet was a pointed bullet found on the stretcher, which had to be replaced with CE399.
3rd (2nd loud shot heard ) shot was between Z224 and Z313 at about Z270 that went slightly high and hit the curb near Tague. That bullet left trace metallic element in the curb that were different than  an MC bullet
4th (3rd loud shot heard) was 313
 
Note: the 3 loud shots were fired in 4.8 seconds with the last 2 just slightly closer together , which matches Harold Normans boom click click 3 shot spacing which he completes in about 4 secs ( in video recordings)  The “click click” could be sound of the shells bouncing on the floor.

4. WC/CT (Dan version) 3 shots fired by solitary gunman ( NOT Oswald however) , from TSBD, using the MC rifle? 1st shot at Z224 hits JFK and JC as per the SBT. 2nd shot is Z313. 3rd shot is about 2 secs later which was just a final unaimed shot ( which hit the curb near Tague?)

Not necessarily using the MC, the point of the MC was to frame Oswald. Once it's realised Oswald didn't take the shots there's no real reason to imagine the toytown MC was actually used.
And I wouldn't describe the final shot as "unaimed" or necessarily two seconds later. The last shot might have been pulled high due to the sudden appearance of Clint Hill on the back of the limo or Jackie jumping onto the trunk. It's hard to know beyond speculation.
The last shot came very rapidly after the second shot according to many witnesses. It's hard to imagine the third shot being the head shot in this scenario as there would be very little time to take aim after the second shot (which I believe to be the head shot).
A first shot at z222/223 is not speculation and neither is the head shot.

[Andrew Mason]

In Andrew's scenario JFK is shot at z193, through the oak tree, and he carries on smiling and waving.

This is not a joke or an exaggeration.

Yes it is. At worst Oswald fired the first shot when JFK was clear of all parts ofc the tree except a few outer leaves that really did not hide much. And he reacted immediately but gradually, by turning forward moving left, then bringing his hands to his upper chest and then slipping down and leaning to the left with his head down and facing to the left. All of this starts at z193.

It must also be noted that, in Andrew's demented theory, at the same time JBC is hit in the leg by a bullet that hits the bone in his leg....and he doesn't notice it.
According to Andrew's demented theory JFK doesn't realise he's been shot and neither does JBC.

What is unusual about someone being shot in the leg and not feeling it? It is actually very  common for people to be shot and not feel anything immediately.

[Dan O'meara]

Yes it is. At worst Oswald fired the first shot when JFK was clear of all parts ofc the tree except a few outer leaves that really did not hide much. And he reacted immediately but gradually, by turning forward moving left, then bringing his hands to his upper chest and then slipping down and leaning to the left with his head down and facing to the left. All of this starts at z193.

At worst Oswald fired the first shot when JFK was clear of all parts of the tree except a few outer leaves that really did not hide much.


 
So you finally admit that you have the assassin shooting through the oak tree!!
Why would he do that when the limo was about to enter a stretch of open road?

And he reacted immediately but gradually, by turning forward moving left,

Immediately but gradually?? 
Please explain to everyone what "turning forward moving left" means.

What is unusual about someone being shot in the leg and not feeling it? It is actually very  common for people to be shot and not feel anything immediately.

Just because your theory is demented doesn't mean you have to be.

[Andrew Mason]

At worst Oswald fired the first shot when JFK was clear of all parts of the tree except a few outer leaves that really did not hide much.


 
So you finally admit that you have the assassin shooting through the oak tree!!
Why would he do that when the limo was about to enter a stretch of open road?

Because he knew he may need to make more than one shot before the car had moved out of accurate shooting range and he shot as soon as he felt he had a clear view of the President.  At that point there were only a few leaves which did not prevent an accurate shot.  I am not saying he shot when he couldn’t see JFK.  I am saying that is the worst case shooting before JFK was not completely clear. And I am saying he was clear of the oak tree by z193 when the first shot occurred.

While we are asking such questions, why would the shooter wait over a full second and a half to shoot after JFK was in the clear?  And why would the shooter fire a shot after the head shot?  Why would the shooter do that after seeing an obvious fatal shot?

And he reacted immediately but gradually, by turning forward moving left,

Immediately but gradually?? 

Is that difficult to understand? He reacted within a few frames by turning forward with a blank look, then leaned to his left and brought both hands to his upper chest, then he slipped down with a choking expression, then he leaned forward with his head facing downward.

Please explain to everyone what "turning forward moving left" means.

His head turns from facing right to facing forward. Then his body moved leaned to the left exposing JBC to view from the rear as observed by Dave Powers.