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Author Topic: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?  (Read 4155 times)

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2018, 02:56:39 PM »
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Yes, I was scanning the Mailer book - which goes over in detail his work at the factory - for anything related to it. I also had some vague memory of something along the lines of him taking it off for some reason.

At the factor - radio/TV - he worked in the metal lathe shop as a metal worker. Mailer recites several incidents of workers complaining about Oswald using their equipment without permission and ruining their calibrations of the machines. Some of this, of course, was before he married Marina.

Here he is in Minsk with fellow co-workers. Is that his Marine ring on his right hand?

                 

I can't see the picture but per the Russian tradition, Oswald wore his wedding ring on his right hand.  It is visible in the picture of him waving from a train window with Marina when leaving Russia.

Offline Craig Coleman

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2018, 03:03:40 PM »
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Who did he say this to? Can we get a name?

Unfortunately there is no real evidence of this JFK quote. However, apparently former President Truman, whose administration established the CIA in 1947, is the one JFK came to to express that he "wanted to splinter the CIA in a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds." Kennedy was frustrated with the failed Bay of Pigs so it seems possible that he would have said such a thing, but there really is nothing to prove it and all we have is word of mouth.

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2018, 03:03:40 PM »

Offline Craig Coleman

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2018, 03:12:50 PM »
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I?ll answer the thread question in one word:  no.

Do you have any reasoning or evidence as to why you believe this?

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2018, 06:42:48 PM »
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As usual, she couldn't keep her story straight. So which version is fake?

It's unclear what you mean in just citing a link to a bunch of quotes.  Marina indicates that Oswald left his wedding ring at the Paine residence and that was an unusual - perhaps singular - occurrence for him.  If this is story is"fake", then what are you suggesting happened?  That Marina made up the wedding ring story and Oswald had it on when arrested?  And then for some unknown reason someone had her and Ruth Paine to lie about finding it at the Paine residence?  So perhaps you can enlighten us as to what you believe is going on here.

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2018, 06:42:48 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2018, 07:02:45 PM »
The above photo can be seen here:

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Yes, the ring seen (or that I see) is on his right hand.

The only reference to wedding ring in the Mailer book is where Marina describes finding it in a cup on her dresser the morning of the assassination. The Mailer book is a mess but the section on his time in Russia - while muddled - has some interesting material especially about how the KGB viewed him (as an erratic person that they were glad to get rid of).

Same with Priscilla McMillan Johnson's book. The only reference is to Marina finding it that day.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:57:45 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2018, 07:23:11 PM »
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You didn't even try, did you?

In one FBI interview Marina Oswald stated "that the following day (Friday) when she got up from bed, after the departure of her husband, she noticed his wedding ring laying on the top of their bedroom dresser."

[WCE 1787 11.30.63]

 In another FBI interview she stated "that she had not discovered Oswald's wedding ring on the dresser in her room at the Ruth Paine home the morning of November 22, 1963, upon getting up that morning. She said she had not seen it until the police came to her house to search it, following the arrest of Oswald on November 22, 1963."

[FBI 11.30.63 WCE 1820]

In yet another interview she said "She remembered that Oswald had on his marriage ring on the evening of November 21, 1963. Marina advised that on November 22, 1963, when the police came to the Paine house and searched it, they found Oswald's marriage ring on a dresser in the room which she, Marina, used. She said she had not seen his ring on the dresser before that.

She advised the last time she had seen the ring was on the hand of Oswald the evening before."

[FBI 12.4.63 FBI File #DL 89-43]

The FBI took note of this: "In the same report, Gopadze reported that Marina said she noticed Oswald wedding ring lying on top of her bedroom dresser when she got up from bed on the morning of November 22, 1963. This is in direct contradiction to statements Marina has made to us - these being that she did not know Oswald had left his wedding ring until after the police found it."

[NARA FBI 124-10171-10399]

There is inconsistency as to exactly when she found the ring that day.  Not whether the ring was found at the Paine residence.  Caprio takes issue with the fact that the ring was found at the Paine residence suggesting the record doesn't support that conclusion.  Are you - like him - suggesting it wasn't left there by Oswald that morning?  If he was wearing it on Nov. 21 and it was found there at some point on Nov. 22 (even if we don't know the exact minute) doesn't that mean he left it there?  How else would it get there? Again, it's not clear what the counternarrative is here since you both refuse to state what you are suggesting might have happened.

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2018, 07:23:11 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2018, 11:16:11 PM »
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Hopeless.  The obvious point is that an otherwise legal, not uncommon action can - when examined within the totality of circumstances in a case - become probative of guilt.

Yes, you're hopeless.  A false equivalence doesn't become a valid argument no matter how many times you try to repeat it.

Quote
  Even if standing alone it would not.  Buying a life insurance policy just prior to a mysterious death is the classic example.  Oswald's decision to leave his wedding ring at home for the first and only time of his marriage according to Marina along with an unusually large amount of money (during an unexpected visit to the location where he stored the rifle) on the day when other evidence links him to the assassination demonstrates foreknowledge of his potential arrest or death that day.

No, it demonstrates that he gave her some money and left his ring behind.  Everything else is attempted mind-reading and supposition -- nothing more.

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  He wants to ensure that his wife has his wedding ring and as much money as he can provide his family before he is separated from them.  Now what was so dangerous that day that might lead Oswald to believe he might never be coming home?

So now you somehow know that Oswald believed he might never be coming home.  This just keep getting better and better.  This is no different from Walt believing that Oswald and deMorenschildt cooked up a hoax shooting to impress the Cubans.  You're making something up out of whole cloth just because you want it to be true.

Hopeless indeed.

Quote
  Find someone in your community with a functioning brain to help at this point if you need further assistance.

Yeah....no.  Arrogance doesn't make a fallacious argument any less fallacious either.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2018, 11:17:57 PM »
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If memory serves, Oswald left his ring at home (sometimes?) when working at a factory in Russia. It interfered with the mechanical job he was doing according to Marina. Putting together radios, or something.

Your memory rarely serves.

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2018, 11:17:57 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2018, 11:23:14 PM »
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If he was wearing it on Nov. 21 and it was found there at some point on Nov. 22 (even if we don't know the exact minute) doesn't that mean he left it there?

Do you have some evidence that he was wearing it on Nov. 21?

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Re: Did the CIA assassinate JFK?
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2018, 11:23:14 PM »

 

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