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Author Topic: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63  (Read 7794 times)

Offline Jack Trojan

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Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« on: April 13, 2023, 10:20:22 PM »
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Below is a transcript from a phone call between J. Edgar Hoover and Lyndon B. Johnson November 23 1963, less than 24 hours after JFK was assassinated.

I don't want to debate whether both men could have possibly known all this info in that short a time period, because obviously they did. LNers will never be persuaded that LHO wasn't a lone nut anyway.

However, if you lean towards a conspiracy and Oswald was the patsy, then this transcript demonstrates how far up the ladder it went. Top rung. No wonder Johnson never appointed a VP.

Quote
11/23/63

J. Edgar Hoover: I just wanted to let you know of a development which I think is very important in connection with this case -
this man in Dallas (Lee Harvey Oswald). We, of course, charged him with the murder of the President. The evidence that they
have at the present time is not very, very strong. We have just discovered the place where the gun was purchased and the shipment
of the gun from Chicago to Dallas, to a post office box in Dallas, to a man - no, to a woman by the name of "A. Hidell."... We
had it flown up last night, and our laboratory here is making an examination of it.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Yes, I told the Secret Service to see that that got taken care of.

J. Edgar Hoover: That's right. We have the gun and we have the bullet. There was only one full bullet that was found. That was on
the stretcher that the President was on. It apparently had fallen out when they massaged his heart, and we have that one. We have
what we call slivers, which are not very valuable in the identification. As soon as we finish the testing of the gun for fingerprints
... we will then be able to test the one bullet we have with the gun. But the important thing is that this gun was bought in Chicago
on a money order. Cost twenty-one dollars, and it seems almost impossible to think that for twenty-one dollars you could kill the
President of the United States.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Now, who is A. Hidell?

J. Edgar Hoover: A. Hidell is an alias that this man has used on other occasions, and according to the information we have from the
house in which he was living - his mother - he kept a rifle like this wrapped up in a blanket which he kept in the house. On the
morning that this incident occurred down there - yesterday - the man who drove him to the building where they work, the building from
where the shots came, said that he had a package wrapped up in paper... But the important thing at the time is that the location of
the purchase of the gun by a money order apparently to the Klein Gun Company in Chicago - we were able to establish that last night.

Lyndon B. Johnson: Have you established any more about the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September?

J. Edgar Hoover: No, that's one angle that's very confusing, for this reason - we have up here the tape and the photograph of the man
who was at the Soviet embassy, using Oswald's name. That picture and the tape do not correspond to this man's voice, nor to his
appearance. In other words, it appears that there is a second person who was at the Soviet embassy down there. We do have a copy of a
letter which was written by Oswald to the Soviet embassy here in Washington, inquiring as well as complaining about the harassment of
his wife and the questioning of his wife by the FBI. Now, of course, that letter information - we process all mail that goes to the
Soviet embassy. It's a very secret operation. No mail is delivered to the embassy without being examined and opened by us, so that we
know what they receive... The case, as it stands now, isn't strong enough to be able to get a conviction... Now if we can identify this
man who was at the... Soviet embassy in Mexico City... This man Oswald has still denied everything. He doesn't know anything about anything,
but the gun thing, of course, is a definite trend.


That's a lot to know and do less than a day later. WTF?

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Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« on: April 13, 2023, 10:20:22 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2023, 01:34:46 PM »
Below is a transcript from a phone call between J. Edgar Hoover and Lyndon B. Johnson November 23 1963, less than 24 hours after JFK was assassinated.

I don't want to debate whether both men could have possibly known all this info in that short a time period, because obviously they did. LNers will never be persuaded that LHO wasn't a lone nut anyway.

However, if you lean towards a conspiracy and Oswald was the patsy, then this transcript demonstrates how far up the ladder it went. Top rung. No wonder Johnson never appointed a VP.

That's a lot to know and do less than a day later. WTF?

I don't see any evidence discussed here that would not have been known to the FBI by Nov. 23.  What exactly are you referencing?  And we are to somehow conclude from this call that Hoover and LBJ were in on the plot and knew Oswald didn't do it, but spent their time in a private phone call discussing the evidence they knew was faked?  HA HA HA.  Why would they be doing that instead of conferring about the status of the conspiracy?

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2023, 02:12:01 PM »
“We, of course, charged him with the murder of the President. The evidence that they have at the present time is not very, very strong”


It’s fascinating if only for the fact that the case against Oswald appeared to be weak according to Hoover before Lee was killed.

Once he was killed they were able to manufacture and manipulate the evidence because they knew there would be no legal scrutiny of the evidence…
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 02:12:31 PM by Jon Banks »

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2023, 02:12:01 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2023, 02:26:09 PM »
“We, of course, charged him with the murder of the President. The evidence that they have at the present time is not very, very strong”


It’s fascinating if only for the fact that the case against Oswald appeared to be weak according to Hoover before Lee was killed.

Once he was killed they were able to manufacture and manipulate the evidence because they knew there would be no legal scrutiny of the evidence…

What would the narrative be for the FBI framing Oswald but then calling the president to tell him the evidence against him "at the present time" is not strong?  Hoover is just noting the early stages of the investigation.  His statement on Nov. 23 is not a final assessment of the case.  If anything, it shows that the FBI had an open mind as they conducted the investigation and did not fixate just on Oswald but pursued the evidence. 

Offline Jon Banks

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2023, 03:39:02 PM »
What would the narrative be for the FBI framing Oswald but then calling the president to tell him the evidence against him "at the present time" is not strong? 

I'm referring to the evidence that was tampered with or destroyed after Oswald was killed. There are many examples of that between the autopsy, the FBI, and the Dallas PD investigation. People maybe were more willing to cut corners once they knew there would be no trial. 

I'm not implying nor suggesting that the FBI framed Oswald before the Kennedy assassination or was involved in the conspiracy plot.
 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 03:39:28 PM by Jon Banks »

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2023, 03:39:02 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2023, 06:19:20 PM »
"The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin." -- J. Edgar Hoover, 11/24/63

That doesn’t sound like somebody interested in pursuing the evidence.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2023, 06:23:20 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2023, 04:29:35 AM »
I don't see any evidence discussed here that would not have been known to the FBI by Nov. 23.  What exactly are you referencing?  And we are to somehow conclude from this call that Hoover and LBJ were in on the plot and knew Oswald didn't do it, but spent their time in a private phone call discussing the evidence they knew was faked?  HA HA HA.  Why would they be doing that instead of conferring about the status of the conspiracy?

For sure Hoover knew way too much about Oswald a mere day later. His crackerjack team actually traced the rifle to imposter Oswald at the Soviet Embassy?? Are you serial? If this was a conspiracy, which it was, then Hoover would have to be in on it. The FBI controlled the SS and the DPD, who were instrumental in carrying out the Big Event. The last piece of the puzzle was Johnson, who appeared to be at the very least, complicit. The only thing Johnson was ever focused on was getting Oswald's confession. Not for 1 second did he concern himself that the Rooskies might have just assassinated the POTUS. Especially, when he got sworn in as POTUS on Air Force One, where I swear to god, he had a copy of the Oath of Office in his pocket, instead of the nuclear football. Nixon said it best. They were all animals, capable of anything.

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2023, 04:29:35 AM »


Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Hoover-Johnson Transcript 11/23/63
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2023, 08:20:06 AM »
Below is a transcript from a phone call between J. Edgar Hoover and Lyndon B. Johnson November 23 1963, less than 24 hours after JFK was assassinated.

I don't want to debate whether both men could have possibly known all this info in that short a time period, because obviously they did. LNers will never be persuaded that LHO wasn't a lone nut anyway.

However, if you lean towards a conspiracy and Oswald was the patsy, then this transcript demonstrates how far up the ladder it went. Top rung. No wonder Johnson never appointed a VP.

That's a lot to know and do less than a day later. WTF?

Is this a transcript of the whole conversation?
If so, how come LBJ is asking about "the visit to the Soviet embassy in Mexico in September".
He seems more clued up than the head of the FBI.