One Witness


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Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2022, 04:34:08 PM »
iF there is a longer interlude  between Mrs Garner having heard Adams and Styles (A/S) on the stairs ( and Baker/Truly coming up the stairs  then a 6th floor gunman could have taken the West elevator down starting as early as 35 sec post shots and arrive to the ground floor by 70secs about 10 secs behind A/S reaching ground floor via stairs approx 60 sec post shots.

This is enough time for A/S to have exited out of TSBD by the east door of annex bldg loading dock( and running into the 2plainscolthes men), before the gunman exits from the west elevator and enters annex bldg going WEST to exit a west side door of TSBD approx 90 sec post shots. This west side of TSBD was probably  not yet guarded and was not in LOS of the 2 plaimsclothes officers who A/S saw.

If the gunman had a type rifle that quickly folds in half then he could hide the rifle fake under a jacket when exiting the west side of TSBD and has a reasonably probability going unnoticed after that , probably getting in a nearby car which drove away via other parking lot route by 2min post shots.

Of course this hypothetical scenario spends on Dougherty’s story being contrived by the WC purposely leading Dougherty to make a very confused testimony and also Baker/Truly time line to the rear elevators contrived along with a fabricated 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.

An interesting scenario, Mr. Mason, however one has to take into consideration two things: (A) IF the gunman took an elevator down to the 1st floor, Wouldn't that have given the lying rooftop tandem (Roy Truly & Marrion Baker) access to an elevator? If so, Why did the hastily contrived script suggest that no elevator was present for their ascent upwards? and (B) Ms. Adams was very clear in her testimony that she and Ms. Styles (Sandra) did Not hear any footsteps on the stairway nor the rumbling descent of an elevator in their wake.

You have a keen sense of perception and discernment alike, Mr. Mason, and if given genuine facts in this case you would be able to construct a more realistic timeline of events for sure. The gunman in question is either Mr. Dougherty or the fleeing male described by eyewitness James Worrell (read his testimony when time permits). Coincidence or not, The man he saw fleeing from the back of the TSBD within 3 minutes of shots fired fits Baker's physical description of the man he actually encounters on the 5h floor. Either way I believe the sixth floor shooter was simply creating a staging area to lend credence to the notion that all shots were fired from the TSBD. Nothing could be further from the truth. President Kennedy sustained at least two front entrance wounds.

Eight months later, and the LNs still cannot provide a single credible eyewitness, just One Witness who can substantiate the lie about Roy Truly and Marrion Baker appearing together at the base of the backstairs. There's a reason for that. An outright lie amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure cannot be substantiated. Same goes for the phantom encounter w/the wrongly-accused in the 2nd floor lunchroom and their bogus exploits up on an otherwise locked rooftop from the inside. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. He was standing outside upon the front-entrance stairs as the presidential limousine drove past the TSBD building. Moreover, he was still in Dealey Plaza beyond the dispatch time of 1:06PM of Fire Station 3's Big Red Engine, thus nowhere near the events unfolding across town at 10th & Patton.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 04:37:48 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2022, 04:34:08 PM »


Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2022, 05:21:17 PM »
Liars R Us ---->

"Half a truth is often a great lie" -- Ben Franklin

While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Roy "nothing Truly about him" is having a verbal exchange with Bill Shelley seven floors below ---->

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in.


As if the horse manure about a magic-bullet isn't already enough bogus magic in this case, now Roy Truly gets to magically be in two different places all at once, in this time sequence up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside and seven stories below speaking with Mr. Shelley (please excuse the eyeroll). Mr. Shelley's timeline amid his testimony, not mine.

While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Marrion Baker is otherwise riding in an elevator when he is encountering Inspector Sawyer ---->

Mr. BELIN - As the elevator was moving?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; downward.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.


The problem here is that Baker cannot be up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside for 10 minutes, yet encounters Inspector Sawyer who shares the following ---->

BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWPER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it
couldn’t have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time We left, got
up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard
the call at 12 :34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir


Liars lie...

Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington





« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 05:24:05 PM by Alan J. Ford »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2022, 05:36:53 PM »
Since the WC timeline for Baker/Truly reaching the 2nd floor landing as early as 75 secs precludes a reasonable probability for Oswald having used the staircases to descend from 6th floor, then perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.

The timeline can remain intact, especially with regard to Mrs Dorothy Garner’ 4th floor sighting of Baker and Truly “coming up”  the staircase just after Garner “heard them” ( Adams/Styles) going down. This establishes Garner having had to exit 4th floor office door approx not later than 40 sec post shots which precludes Oswald or any other 6th floor gunman from having used the staircase to escape.

The question then remains how did a 6th floor shooter at the SE window escape to the ground floor without being seen?

One possibility is the use of one of the 2 rear freight elevators.

It’s quite probable that a 6th floor window SE corner window gunman could run to and enter the East elevator as soon as 25 sec post last shot. He could have reached the 2nd floor as early as 50 sec post shots and exited into the immediate adjacent storage room. He could have have bypassed Baker/Truly unseen just the same way that the supposed Jack Dougherty was able to do.

However, such a scenario would require an accomplice operating the East elevator to return that elevator to the 5th floor by 70 secs post shots.

This would place Jack Dougherty as the primary suspect to be That accomplice or else have to discard Dougherty’s account of him using the West elevator as well as discarding Bakers use of the East elevator when Baker/Trully reach the 5th floor byy staircase.

If the proposal is being made that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter is false, then it’s not unreasonable to propose that Baker/Truly and Jack Dougherty accounts could be contrived as well. In which case , an escape by 6th floor shooter using the East elevator operated by an accomplice it a possibility not that improbable.

perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.

I believe that it is an established fact that Baker and Truly did encounter Lee Oswald who was drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom ( Lee may not have been actually in the act drinking the coke but he had the coke in his hand when Baker and Truly encountered him.)  This bit of information surfaced within a couple of hours after the shooting. Just a few hours after the murder,  Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that one of his officers had encountered Lee Harrrrrrrvey Osssssswald (Boooooo Hissss ) calmly drinking a coke in the book store lunchroom just a few minutes after he had shot the President.   Curry was using the "Calmly Drinking a coke" as a way of depicting Lee Oswald as a cold blooded inhuman killer.....  But the fact remains Curry acknowledged that the lunchroom encounter did in fact happen.  ..... And Lee acknowledged that he had been confronted by a police officer while he was in the second floor lunchroom getting a coke for his lunch.   

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2022, 05:36:53 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2022, 06:48:23 PM »
Liars R Us ---->

"Half a truth is often a great lie" -- Ben Franklin

While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Roy "nothing Truly about him" is having a verbal exchange with Bill Shelley seven floors below ---->

Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in.


As if the horse manure about a magic-bullet isn't already enough bogus magic in this case, now Roy Truly gets to magically be in two different places all at once, in this time sequence up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside and seven stories below speaking with Mr. Shelley (please excuse the eyeroll). Mr. Shelley's timeline amid his testimony, not mine.

While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Marrion Baker is otherwise riding in an elevator when he is encountering Inspector Sawyer ---->

Mr. BELIN - As the elevator was moving?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; downward.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.


The problem here is that Baker cannot be up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside for 10 minutes, yet encounters Inspector Sawyer who shares the following ---->

BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWPER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it
couldn’t have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time We left, got
up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard
the call at 12 :34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir


Liars lie...

Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington

Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.


I agree completely Mr Ford.   So my question is:.... WHY?   I believe that Truly may have been part of the conspiracy ( he certainly was a accessory after the fact ) .....  but I doubt that Baker had any foreknowledge of the plot...  He also was an accessory after the fact.....And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.   

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2022, 03:23:31 PM »
perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.

I believe that it is an established fact that Baker and Truly did encounter Lee Oswald who was drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom ( Lee may not have been actually in the act drinking the coke but he had the coke in his hand when Baker and Truly encountered him.)  This bit of information surfaced within a couple of hours after the shooting. Just a few hours after the murder,  Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that one of his officers had encountered Lee Harrrrrrrvey Osssssswald (Boooooo Hissss ) calmly drinking a coke in the book store lunchroom just a few minutes after he had shot the President.   Curry was using the "Calmly Drinking a coke" as a way of depicting Lee Oswald as a cold blooded inhuman killer.....  But the fact remains Curry acknowledged that the lunchroom encounter did in fact happen.  ..... And Lee acknowledged that he had been confronted by a police officer while he was in the second floor lunchroom getting a coke for his lunch.

Mr. Cakebread, though I have the highest respect for your diligent and exemplary research, we will just have to respectfully disagree on the phantom 2nd floor encounter. Moving on to your entry about Roy "nothing truly about him" is something we both can agree upon.

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2022, 03:31:07 PM »
Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.


I agree completely Mr Ford.   So my question is:.... WHY?   I believe that Truly may have been part of the conspiracy ( he certainly was a accessory after the fact ) .....  but I doubt that Baker had any foreknowledge of the plot...  He also was an accessory after the fact.....And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.   

just like you, Mr. Cakebread, to ask the right questions.

All the right questions in this case are looooong overdue. With good reason because no one dared to ask them save for more than a few heroic real-life genuine patriots who actually cared about our once free, open and democratic Republic. They quickly understood the difference between a well planned coup d'état by a bunch of lying chicken sh*t treasonous cowards and a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to frame an innocent party...brb
« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 03:33:47 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2022, 03:31:07 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2022, 03:52:20 PM »
And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.   

You know, Lil' Lee probably had a similar low opinion of police and other authority figures. You have many rifles and handguns, no?

Offline Alan J. Ford

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2022, 04:05:13 PM »
So my question is:.... WHY? ...

Well, in Roy Truly's case, look no further than his intense hatred of President Kennedy's fair-minded stance on Civil Rights. President Kennedy envisioned a world where all United States citizens would be afforded first-class citizenship. Some southern Jim Crow narrow-minded, self-absorbed bigots were truly alarmed by what they thought was a young whippersnapper encroaching on their way of life in those times. Wouldn't surprise if plenty of hushed whispers in the southern region soon turned into mega-phone like rallies blaring hate filled threats akin to Hell, No! Kennedy's got to go...

Amid this kind of hostile backdrop, the devious and shrewd planners knew they had a legion of "suspects" to parade in front of the world to blame for the demise of President Kennedy. However, a strange twist of fate happened. A young Marine returning home stateside could now introduce more leverage (the planners could portray him as commie loving, deranged killer if they could successfully maneuver him into position to take the fall) The planners would have a duped patsy and now even gain favorable reasons to attack communist Cuba as well. Things were coming together nicely, or so they thought, fuc*ing clowns.

The wrongly accused was much smarter and adept at spy-craft than they ever thought, and with one single move, he sealed his fate. That single move happened upon the entrance steps of the TSBD building. Not talking about the pre-assassination where he was standing there outside as the presidential limousine passes by. I'm making reference to a post-assassination move he made on those same stairs at the front-entrance. Had he not made that move, I believe Mr. Dougherty was steered into position to be charged with the assassination of President Kennedy. A sudden, unexpected move on those front entrance steps changed the course of history. Back next week with more specifics the Good Lord willing. A safe & wonderful weekend everyone.

Way past time for the truth about Roy 'nothing truly about him to be revealed....

Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn't.


So, begs the question, since Roy Truly didn't go over to the sniper's nest at this time interval, just when did he occupy the sp[ace of the sniper's nest? ---->

Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.


Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver...

"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington



« Last Edit: August 19, 2022, 04:14:36 PM by Alan J. Ford »

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Re: One Witness
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2022, 04:05:13 PM »


 

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