JFK Assassination Forum
JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => JFK Assassination Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Alan J. Ford on January 04, 2022, 06:04:40 PM
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Happy New Year!
Trust all are free of any COVID-19 variants still lurking about. Be safe. The greatest myth surrounding the untimely demise of President John F. Kennedy in this case is the wrongly-accused is responsible. That's an outright lie, nothing could be further from the truth. The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
One thing that continues to resurface over and over again since my initial foray (May, 2014) into JFK Assassination Research is the tandem of Baker and Roy Truly (nothing truly about him), and their scripted exploits after the cowardly ambush upon a duly elected representative of the people. In those seven years, May, 2014-present day's time, not a single LN (not one) has been able to offer credible evidence that the lying tandem were even together on the backstairs aside from regurgitating the scripted lies told by Baker and Roy Truly about their phantom exploits.
Only one actual witness places Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath[/b] of the cowardly ambush...only one. However, he makes it crystal clear that Roy Truly wasn't accompanied by a white helmeted motorcycle officer in long black boots akin to Baker's attire that afternoon ---->
Mr. PIPER. I don’t know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,
but another fellow was with him.
Mr. BALL. And where were you?
Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.
Mr. BALL. What did they do?
Mr. PIPER. He ran in and yelled, “Where is the elevator?” And I said, “I
don’t know, sir, Mr. Truly.”
They taken off and went on up the stairway and that’s all I know about
that. Truly and some fellow-I really don’t know who it was; like
I say, it was some fellow.
Mr. BALL. And what did Truly and this-some fellow do?
1Ir. PIPER. Well, Mr. Truly and this fellow run up the steps.
At some point, Baker and Roy Truly do come together that afternoon. Tom Alyea photographs them clean & void of any sweat, grime and/or loss of helmet nor fedora in spite of their scripted lies about a phantom sojourn atop the TSBD roof. Read reply #233 here ---->
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2888.230.html
The problem with a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure touted by a lying rooftop tandem is it--unlike the plain simple Truth--cannot stand all alone on its own.
We already know from what has been shared previously in the above link how Baker's lie about his rooftop exploits has been exposed (he claims to have seen Inspector Sawyer in the same time frame he is supposed to be on that otherwise locked roof). Oops!
Excuse me brb...
picking up again @ 11:48AM EST ---->
Then there's this gem essentially placing Roy Truly (nothing truly about him) nowhere near the 2nd floor lunchroom or that otherwise locked roof ---->
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in.
So, here again we see the contrasting conflict between the plain simple Truth and a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. Simple question for LN's ---->
How did Roy Truly tell Mr. Shelley anything down on the first floor, while he was supposedly atop the roof? Before you answer, please spare those of us reading along it was "the power of the magic-bullet" that reversed its path out of Governor Connally's leg and whispered in Roy Truly's ear to give it a message to relay to Mr. Shelley on its way back to Governor Connally's leg (please excuse the eyeroll) More in a sec, brb
Cat got your tongues LNs? What say ye? Tell those of us reading along here How Roy Truly could convey a message to Mr. Shelley while atop an otherwise locked roof?
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While the LNs try to figure out a way to convince the rest of us that Mr. Shelley was "mistaken" about the physical description and voice of his immediate-supervisor he had known for decades, or try to reconfigure a *Timeline to enhance a verbal exchange between Mr. Shelley & Roy Truly while he is suppose to have already tore up the backstairs, experienced a phantom encounter on the second floor and "magically" transported himself and Baker atop that otherwise locked roof, wish all a healthy & Happy New Year! and pray all remain well, safe and free of any lurking COVID-19 variants. Back next week the Good Lord willing.
*self-reminder: make a good faith effort to construct a genuine timeline of Roy Truly's whereabouts and activities on the afternoon of November 22, 1963...Could this man be an accessory before?, during? and after the fact? of a cowardly ambush on a duly elected representative of the people...
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Bonnie Williams saw them on the fifth floor. He saw bakers white helmet. It's in his wc testimony. Dorothy Garner saw the two together come up the stairs. Plus baker saw Oswald with a coke and Mrs Reid confirmed that Oswald had a coke. So baker and truly did go up the stairs just like they said.
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Williams didn't say anything about Truly.
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Williams didn't say anything about Truly.
Truly was a good bit shorter than Baker. Especially so without a big white helmet.
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Happy New Year Mr. Ford. Always enjoy reading your eloquent posts.
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All the same to you as well, Mr. Plant, Happy New Year!
Appreciate your exemplary research concerning the cowardly ambush of a duly elected representative of the people, and the light you have shed upon the subsequent sinister cover-up by the treasonous cowards involved before, during and after the fact.
The wrongly accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Williams didn't say anything about Truly.
That's a fact, Mr. Iacoletti, no great surprise you caught that given your keen powers of discernment you constantly exhibit whenever sharing your exemplary research on this matter. Thank goodness for folks like you who care to shed light, truth and justice in this case. Much respect & admiration.
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Truly was a good bit shorter than Baker. Especially so without a big white helmet.
About that, quote, "big white helmet" here's a question ---->
How come Mr. Piper didn't see it? ...
Mr. PIPER. I don’t know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,
but another fellow was with him.
Mr. BALL. And where were you?
Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.
There's a reason for that ----> the lying rooftop tandem didn't go up the backstairs together. That fiction would come to life later amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
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When one reads the actual details within Marrion Baker's same day affidavit, it's crystal clear there is no mention of a lunchroom encounter with anyone, let alone the wrongly-accused ---->
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337201/m1/1/zoom/?resolution=2&lat=2874&lon=750
The only time the phantom lunchroom encounter rears its dubious head comes later amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
What say ye LNs? cat got your collective tongues?
The lying rooftop tandem lied to Frame an innocent man. Not one LN will be able to produce a single witness, not one, who actually witnessed Roy "nothing truly about him" Truly and Marrion Baker together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination. There's a reason for that.
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The LNs are stumped. For good reason, they have nothing.
The reason why they cannot produce even one witness to substantiate Roy Truly & Marrion Baker's concocted story about being together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination is rather telling.
It simply didn't happen, in spite of the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to the contrary. Once again, Any LN have any concrete evidence to produce that substantiates beyond a shadow of a doubt that the lying rooftop tandem were indeed together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination?
Just one witness will suffice...just one.
Totally understandable that you cannot do it. There's a reason for that. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Lest anyone tries to corroborate the lying rooftop tandem's concoction about being together at the base of the back-stairs w/the testimony of Mr. Piper (Eddie), don't waste your time. Mr. Piper's testimony makes two things crystal clear: (A) Roy Truly was with "someone" (not an obviously clad motorcycle policeman, wearing an unmistakable combination of a white helmet & long black boots); and, (B) Roy Truly wasn't at the base of the back-stairs until well after the stopwatch time concocted amid a hastily contrived script about Marrion Baker and Roy Truly being together at the base of the back-stairs.
Mr. BALL. Tell me what you heard?
Mr. PIPER. A few minutes someone came in the building, and I looked up and it was the bossman and a policeman or someone.
That "a few minutes" comes even further into play due to this exchange ---->
Mr. BALL. Did you see Truly, Mr. Truly and an officer go into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yeah, we saw them right at the front of the building while
we were on the island.
Add time for Mr. Shelley to get out to the island, and then look back, the point here is that in spite of their concocted hastily contrived script to the contrary Roy Truly and Marrion Baker are still outside of the building, nowhere near the back-stairs, let alone together when Roy truly gets there eventually w/"someone"
Now, those few minutes become even longer when we take this exchange into consideration ----->
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway
So, here's a simple question: How could Roy Truly be together with Marrion Baker on their concocted exploits on the upper-floors while speaking with Mr. Shelley downstairs? looooong after Mr. Shelley has gone to over the island, then over towards the railroad tracks and eventually reenters the building?
A hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure Framed an innocent man. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. He was framed.
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LNs are stumped. For good reason, they have nothing...
not even one witness to substantiate a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure...together at the base of the backstairs; then a phantom 2nd floor encounter, followed up w/magically appearing on an otherwise locked rooftop; while at the same time sharing space downstairs ??? on the first floor w/Mr. Shelley...
Back next week the Good Lord willing. Best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy & free of any lingering COVID-19 variants lurking about.
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After several challenges now, this thread is still pitching a complete shutout amid a no-hitter against the LNs. With good reason, they have nothing. While they continue to cower away, essentially having nothing to corroborate the horse manure about Marrion Baker and Roy Truly being together at the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination, let's now turn our attention to some rather interesting encounters made by news reporters Pierce Allman and Robert MacNeil.
The wrongly-accused directed Mr. Allman to a telephone as their paths crossed at the front entrance of the building. From that brief encounter at the front entrance we get a sense from Mr. Allman the wrongly-accused was in no hurry akin to the egregious lie told by officialdom amid their hastily contrived script ---->
"He didn't appear stressed in any way".
For good reason, the wrongly-accused hadn't done anything wrong. He simply came to the aid of a fellow citizen in a calm and collected manner like anyone else would have, before venturing outside into the crisp Autumn air to take in the scene during the immediate aftermath of the assassination, nowhere near Mrs. Reid's office or experiencing a phantom encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom.
Now, with Mr. McNeil in mind, here's an individual with more than a few observations worthy of further exploration, most importantly, Who were the three calm white men he saw on the first floor when he entered the building? ---->
I went immediately into the clear space on the ground floor and asked where there was a phone. There were, as I recall, three men there, all I think in shirt sleeves. What, on recollection, strikes me as possibly significant is that all three seemed to be exceedingly calm and relaxed, compared to the pandemonium which existed right outside their front door. I did not pay attention to this at the time. I asked the first man I saw a man who was telephoning from a phone by a pillar in the middle of the room where I could call from. He directed me to another man nearer the door, who pointed to an office. When I got to the phone, two of the lines were lit up. I made my call and left. I do not believe any police officers entered the building before me or until I left. I was in too much of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like. But their manner was very relaxed My New York news desk has since placed the time of my call at 12:36 Dallas time. -- *Credit the exemplary research of Mr. Weston (William)
Who were these three men? Given the overwhelming consensus of the statements made by the TSBD employees found in CE 1381, researchers know these three men weren't strangers. Back next week the Good Lord willing to make the case for exactly who they were, and given Mr. MacNeil's timeline what happens next...best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
Lest a flimsy lie amid a hastily contrived script has you believing otherwise, remember one thing ----> The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. All lies mired in the stench of horse manure, void of irrefutable proof. They cannot even produce one witness placing the lying rooftop tandem at the base of the backstairs together.
There's a reason for that. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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The LNs are still failing miserably to produce any actual witnesses, who can substantiate the fairytale about Marrion Baker and Roy Truly being together at the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination of a duly elected representative of the people. In fairness to them, I'm only asking that they produce just one witness. Very telling that they cannot even produce one.
Officialdom's hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure fails to even include a single eye-witness, not one witness placing the lying roof-top tandem together at the base of the backstairs, yet want us to believe the nonsense about a 2nd floor phantom encounter w/the wrongly-accused. No one saw them together at the base of the backstairs. Feel free to produce a single witness LNs. Haven't done it to date. Simply cannot do it, can you? There's a reason for that. Why bother trying is the prevailing consensus, right LNs? Totally understandable...Because it didn't happen. A contrived lie among many more lies to follow to Frame an innocent party.
Now, wanted to follow up with the three calm men introduced above in the previous post...brb fetching some notes.
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A rather interesting exchange between Mr. Piper and Mr. Dougherty introduces an interesting chain of events. Seems they both shared a similar experience with the same "fellow" ----->
Mr. BALL. Did you hear Mr. Truly yell anything up the elevator shaft?
Mr. DOCGHERTY. I didn’t hear anybody yell.
Mr. BALL. Or, did you see Mr. Truly?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, when the FBI men-1 imagine it was who it was-he
showed me his credentials, but he asked me who the manager was, and I told
him, “Mr. Truly.” He told me to go find him.
now some minutes after the exchange between Mr. Piper and Mr. Dougherty, this "fellow" reemerges ---->
Mr. PIPER. I don’t know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,
but another fellow was with him. Truly and some fellow-I really don’t know who it was; likeI say, it was some fellow.
Mr. BALL. And what did Truly and this-some fellow do?
1Ir. PIPER. Well, Mr. Truly and this fellow run up the steps.
In either case, he is the actual person accompanying Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs, not an obviously clad motorcycle officer wearing an unmistakable white helmet & long black boots. Of course, that nonsense would rear its deceptive head much later amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
Now, turning to the three calm men mentioned in the previous post...
start here w/Miss Victoria Adams...brb
Miss Adams: It sounded like a firecracker or a cannon at a football game, it seemed as if it came from the right below rather than from the left above. And after the third shot, following that, the third shot, I went to the back
of the building down the back stairs, and encountered Bill Shelley and Bill
Lovelady on the first floor on the way out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN. When you say on the way out to the Houston Street dock, you
mean now you were on the way out?
Miss ADAMS. While I was on the way out.
The above represents 2/3rds of the three calm men observed by news reporter Mr. MacNeil ---->
I was in too much of a hurry to remember what the three men looked like. But their manner was very relaxed. My New York news desk has since placed the time of my call at 12:36 Dallas time.
Both Shelly & Lovelady were back in the building at this time. Despite their outright lies to the contrary, both Shelley & Lovelady also saw Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles just minutes before as all parties mentioned crossed paths at the rear of the building on the first-floor. While the ladies continued on out of the building following that brief encounter, the 2/3rds of the three calm men walked across the floor towards the front-entrance clearing space, where at least one of them would be on the phone making a call when Mr. MacNeil enters the front-entrance ---->
I asked the first man I saw a man who was telephoning from a phone by a pillar in the middle of the room where I could call from. He directed me to another man nearer the door.
Mr. Shelley's same day affidavit reveals his phone call to his wife...
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/
Back next week the Good Lord willing to share the identity of the 3rd calm man that Mr. MacNeil observed that afternoon. Mr. MacNeil's timing sequence is very telling about the identity of the 3rd calm man ---->
My New York news desk has since placed the time of my call at 12:36 Dallas time.
Very interesting. stop back next week to see why. Best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 threats.
*Begin next week with the exchange between Shelley and Roy Truly, that obviously couldn't have happened IF the lying rooftop wannabe was actually on that otherwise locked room from the inside. Bunch of lying treasonous cowards.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Dougherty continued...
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, when the FBI men---I imagine it was who it was---he showed me his credentials, but he asked me who the manager was, and I told him, "Mr. Truly." He told me to go find him. Well, I didn't know where he was so I started from the first floor and Just started looking for him, and .by the time I got to the sixth floor, they had found a gun and shells.
Mr. BALL - When you went up to the sixth floor, it was after they found the shotgun and shells?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir; and I found out later he was on the fourth floor, which I didn't find.
I find it mildly interesting that he imagine FBI when he was shown credentials, however, despite being mildly retarded, he indicates having searched the building systematically from the first floor up and then reaching the 6th floor after the gun was found -- that's a long time searching!
Interesting tidbit about finding out later that Truly was on the fourth floor. Almost sounds like Truly was there all along the way it's worded, so how did Dougherty miss him?
An excellent summation, Mr. Beck, no great surprise considering the source.
Mr. Dougherty is and remains a mysterious figure as we approach the sixth decade of President Kennedy's assassination next year in November. Your keen discernment warrants the questions you are posing. We are left to wonder & ponder a few more questions with Mr. Dougherty in mind...
*Did he plant the shell-casings and rifle, Or, Did Roy "nothing truly about him" Truly ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
**When (what time sequence?) and Why did Mr. Dougherty abandon his post upon the orders of Bill Shelley ---->
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/
and, lastly...
*** IF the lying rooftop tandem called up for the elevators, Why didn't Mr. Dougherty acknowledge that "truth" instead of sharing the actual truth ---->
Mr. DOUGHERTY. Well, I came on back downstairs.
Mr. BALL. How did you come downstairs?
Mr. DOUGHERTY. I used that push button elevator on the west side.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear Mr. Truly yell anything up the elevator shaft?
Mr. DOCGHERTY. I didn’t hear anybody yell.
Because the horse manure about the lying rooftop tandem being together at the base of the backstairs is mere fiction. Last thought before getting into the balance of the three men observed by news reporter Mr. MacNeil, it wouldn't come as a surprise to me that Roy Truly spent more time on the 4th floor that afternoon than on the backstairs or up on that otherwise locked roof from the inside. Liars lie.
“Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder.
” ― George Washington
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Brief Recap:
The LNs still cannot produce one credible witness to substantiate the fiction about Baker and Truly being together at the same time at the base of the backstairs. There's a reason for that. They cannot do it.
Amid all their parroting back and forth of a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure, they have nothing. Not one witness, not even one.
Now, turning to the third man that Mr. MacNeil saw upon entering the TSBD during the immediate aftermath of a cowardly ambush upon a duly elected representative of the People by more than a few chicken-sh*t, lying treasonous cowards....Those of us who are already familiar with Commission Exhibit 1381 are aware that all 69 TSBD employees gave statements that none of them saw any strangers that afternoon. In their respective statements Shelley and Lovelady added to this overall consensus found within CE 1381.
With that in mind, the third man seen by the news reporter entering the TSBD that afternoon wasn't a stranger. Thus he was someone familiar to both Shelley and Lovelady. Very familiar, despite their lying eyes to the contrary. Back next week the Good Lord willing to share evidence that supports only one person can be identified as the third man Mr. MacNeil encounters and observes upon his entrance inside the TSBD in search of a telephone. Best to all to remain well, safe and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
The wrongly-accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Baker's lying lips are moving again ---->
Mr. Baker. As I entered this building, there was, it seems to me like there was outside doors and then there is a little lobby.
Mr. Belin. All right.
Mr. Baker. As I entered this lobby there were people going in as I entered.
Yet, the tallest figure on the front entrance landing that afternoon, Mr. Frazier (Buell Wesley) shares this truth ---->
Mr. Ball: Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?
Mr. Frazier: You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. Ball: A police officer.
Mr. Frazier: No, sir; I stood there a few minutes
So much for the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure about a fictitious 90 second mad dash up to the 2nd floor lunchroom amid a phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused.
To buttress Mr. Frazier's observations, there's this ----> brb
Mr. Molina: I was right in the entrance.
Mr. Ball: Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. Molina: I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer.
There again folks, another same day up close and personal eyewitness to history derailing the hastily contrived script about the lying rooftop tandem (Baker & Roy Truly) sprinting off to a mad 90 sec dash up the backstairs to a phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused. All lies folks mired in the stench of horse manure amid a hastily contrived script to Frame an innocent party.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. He was Framed by a bunch of lying chicken-sh8t treasonous cowards.
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The wrongly-accused is the 3rd man news reporter Mr. MacNeil (Robert) observed upon entering the TSBD in search of a phone to relay the lastest developments on that fateful afternoon. Interestingly enough though, he wasn't the only news reporter in search of a telephone that afternoon that the wrongly-accused came to the aid of. Back next week the Good Lord willing to share news reporter Pierce Allman's encounter with the wrongly-accused, after chronicling the wrongly-accused's pre & post assassination path, sharing his detailed movements, from standing outside on the front-entrance steps, Yes, you read that right, to retracing his steps back inside over to the small storage area on the first floor (where he was seen by more than a few of the TSBD employees as they re-entered the building), etc. Best to all to remain well safe and free of any lurking COVID-19 variants.
The LNs are still continuing to fail miserably to produce One Witness, just one will suffice, who can substantiate Baker & Roy Truly's lies about being together at the base of the backstairs. They cannot do it. There's a reason for that. Because only The plain simple truth can stand alone all on its own, whereas a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure merely masquerades as evidence. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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100 days ago, I challenged the LNs to offer up just one witness to substantiate the lie repeated by Baker and Roy Truly about them being together at the base of the backstairs together, 100 days later they still cannot do it. With good reason, they weren't there together despite a hastily contrived script mired in horse manure to the contrary. The problem with officialdom's hastily contrived script is it is just that, a flimsy script, masquerading as evidence.
Before picking up where I left off in the previous post, I want to share yet another piece of contrived evidence beyond the lying rooftop tandem's exploits on that otherwise locked roof; their phantom encounter with the wrongly accused on the 2nd floor; and the bs about Baker seeing Inspector Sawyer while at the same time sequence he and Roy Truly are supposed to be atop that otherwise locked roof from the inside. Liars R' Us.
Remember that often repeated storyline about Texas School Book Employee Gloria Calvery running up from her position down on lower Elm Street, where she took in the presidential parade that fateful afternoon? In late 2017, I discovered that only one woman was actually running during the immediate aftermath of the assassination (sourced in her own words and captured in the same time sequence by the late Jimmy Darnell's film footage that afternoon), her name wasn't Gloria Calvery (but the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure did anything to embellish their framing of the wrongly-accused) Here's the actual truth ---->
''I, Miss Georgia Ruth Hendrix, freely furnish the following
voluntary statement to Eugene F . Petrakio and A . Raymond Switzer
who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation . "I recall that just seconds after the car in Thich President John
F . Kennedy was riding passed the position where I was standing, I
heard a shot . At first I thought it was a salute to the President,
but when the second shot was fired and I saw the President fall down
in the car I knew someone was shooting at him . When I heard the third
shot I turned and fled back into the Depository Building and immediately
want to my office on the third floor,
With the above in mind, the lone challenge offered up by the Lns was to cite Ms. Hendrick's age, yet when I'd counter with she's much younger than the ancient Roy Truly, and you guys have no problem with him and Baker making a mad dash up the backstairs bs in spite of his age...they suddenly go into cricket-mode. The problem with officialdumbs often parroted back hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse-manure about any of the so-called "truth' masquerading as evidence to frame the wrongly-accused is it's "evidence" cannot ever stand alone all on its own like the plain simple Truth. their "truth" never fails to need a modification here, a modification there, etc. In fact, until this thread challenged the LNs to produce one witness to substantiate Baker and Roy Truly's lie about being together at the base of the backstairs this has become an Oops moment in dire need of modifications they never even anticipated, let alone seen coming, thus their silence. There's a reason for that. They have nothing. They have been rendered speechless amid continuing to cowering away from this challenge with each passing day. The beauty of this particular challenge is they simply cannot offer up one witness to substantiate the lying hastily contrived script's opening scene (Baker and Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs together)
*Will have to return next week the Good Lord willing to share the wrongly-accused's actual movements pre-assassination, during the assassination and post-assassination. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. Best wishes to all to remain healthy, safe and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Good morning, Gentlemen
Now that it's been firmly established (in light of the LN's inability over four months time to produce any sustaining evidence to the contrary, not even one witness) the lie about Baker and Roy Truly being together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination exposes the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure for what it is: An outright lie to Frame an innocent party.
Over the next few weeks the good Lord willing, I'll cover three blocks of time sharing where the wrongly-accused was before, during and immediately after the cowardly ambush upon a duly elected representative of the people. He was never in the staged 6th floor sniper's nest. He wasn't encountered in the 2nd floor lunchroom by two people who cannot even produce one witness who actually can substantiate they were even together on the backstairs. There's a reason for that, with good reason because they weren't together as much as the hastily contrived script manufactured that they were. No great surprise, because throughout this case all of the "evidence" is manufactured.
Today, let's focus our attention on where the wrongly-accused was before the chicken sh*t cowards ambushed an unarmed duly elected representative of the people...brb
The following two exchanges negates the bs about Baker and Truly encountering the wrongly-accused upstairs in the 2nd floor lunch room ---->
Mr. BALL. Did you see them go into the building7
Mr. SHELLEY. So; we didn’t watch that long but they were at the first step
like they were fixin’ to go in.
Let anyone forgets or tries to purposely muddy the waters here, the above statement notes a time interval of 4 minutes later (Mr. Shelley's words not mine) during the immediate aftermath of the assassination. So, that alone calls out the phantom 2nd floor encounter in 90 seconds time for the bs it is. Another lie of many...
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.
So, IF the lying Roy Truly has already left the first-floor scene some five minutes ago tearing up the backstairs as the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure would have us believe, then How is he speaking directly with Mr. Shelley down on the first-floor?, when he has supposedly encountered the wrongly-accused (please excuse the eye-roll) and then made a hasty dash to that otherwise locked roof from the inside?
Final thought before getting to the heart of today's post ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
More evidence of manufactured planted 'evidence" to Frame an innocent party. brb gents
Moving along now with today's focus on where was the wrongly-accused before the unthinkable unfolded in Dealey Plaza that fateful afternoon:
Let's begin with this exchange ---->
Mr. BALL - How long did you stand there?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25.
The above statement's importance is considered noteworthy, because of the time stated and the gentleman speaking, sharing when he made a decision to reenter the TBD. The wrongly-accused described Mr. Jarman's and his TSBD fellow employee Mr. Norman reentering the building at the back of the building in the same time sequence.
So, IF you or I are already upstairs lurking in the snipe's nest that Roy Truly admits he was standing in before the rifle and shell casings were found, Ask yourself a simple question: IF you are way up on the 6th floor in the front of the building, How could you describe anyone, let alone two different people reentering the building in the back of the building 6 floors below? Easy if you are the wrongly-accused sitting in the domino room downstairs as late as 12:23-12;25PM, nowhere near the 6th floor let alone in a sniper's nest at the southeast corner.
More to follow...my apologies am juggling some work related paperwork.
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Now that it has been firmly established that the wrongly-accused was indeed downstairs in the domino room with his lunch between 12:23-12:25PM, let's address why he didn't then proceed upstairs in that limited time space interval between then and the unthinkable...
*The elevators at that time weren't accessible to the wrongly-accused (his coworkers--Mr. Jarman, Mr. Norman, Mr. Wiliams and Mr. Dougherty had all taken them upstairs. Neither of these men claimed to have seen or heard the wrongly-accused come up the backstairs, let alone exposing himself and his actions by carrying an open rifle. Mr. Dougherty was in prime position to see and/or hear him because his testimony reflects that he was alert and moving to & fro. his surroundings up on the upper floors in this time sequence. Given that none of these men saw and/or heard the wrongly-accused, it's reasonable to believe what his next action sequence was after leaving the domino room. Back nest week the Good Lord wiling to share his whereabouts During the cowardly ambush upon an unarmed representative of the people. Bunch of lying chicken-sh*t treasonous cowards knee-deep in a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
Prior to the time sequence of Mr. Jarman's 12:23-12:25PM movements more than a few eyewitnesses standing in the plaza that afternoon saw two figures standing in the sniper's nest while Mr. Jarman crossed paths with the wrongly-accused downstairs in the domino room. So, who was really over in the sniper's nest that afternoon? Genuine evidence puts the wrongly-accused nowhere near it.
The wrongly-accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Now that it has been firmly established that the wrongly-accused was indeed downstairs in the domino room with his lunch between 12:23-12:25PM, let's address why he didn't then proceed upstairs in that limited time space interval between then and the unthinkable...
*The elevators at that time weren't accessible to the wrongly-accused (his coworkers--Mr. Jarman, Mr. Norman, Mr. Wiliams and Mr. Dougherty had all taken them upstairs. Neither of these men claimed to have seen or heard the wrongly-accused come up the backstairs, let alone exposing himself and his actions by carrying an open rifle. Mr. Dougherty was in prime position to see and/or hear him because his testimony reflects that he was alert and moving to & fro. his surroundings up on the upper floors in this time sequence. Given that none of these men saw and/or heard the wrongly-accused, it's reasonable to believe what his next action sequence was after leaving the domino room. Back nest week the Good Lord wiling to share his whereabouts During the cowardly ambush upon an unarmed representative of the people. Bunch of lying chicken-sh*t treasonous cowards knee-deep in a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
Prior to the time sequence of Mr. Jarman's 12:23-12:25PM movements more than a few eyewitnesses standing in the plaza that afternoon saw two figures standing in the sniper's nest while Mr. Jarman crossed paths with the wrongly-accused downstairs in the domino room. So, who was really over in the sniper's nest that afternoon? Genuine evidence puts the wrongly-accused nowhere near it.
The wrongly-accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
The wrongly-accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
"WRONGLY ACCUSED" IS SIMPLY TOO MILD..... Although that is an accurate and true statement, Lee Oswald was not simply "wrongly accused", he was deliberately and maliciously framed by the authorities, and hastily lynched when it became clear that the authorities had no evidence or case against Lee Oswald. ( J. Edgar Hoover admitted that when he was on the phone with Lyndon Johnson.) The authorities knew that a dead man could not be tried, so they lynched him..... Case closed.
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Self-reminder: *next time in take some time to read some of Mr. Beck's contributions. He has a history of shedding light, truth and justice in this case, and is very adept at separating fact from fiction.
**remember to include Mr. Dougherty's testimony next time and also determine the name of the TSBD employee working out of the packaging & taping room there down on the first-floor, and determine if he had a clear unobstructed view of the backstairs and elevators.
***explore some possibilities why Baker and Roy Truly lied about their exploits on that otherwise locked roof from the inside. Could this have been invented to cover the time sequence to explain the truth about this rather telling Freudian slip ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
What is behind this unintentional error? Was Roy Truly's subconscious trying to come clean in spite of his initial greed for thirty pieces of silver?
"Few men have the virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
Best wishes to all to remain healthy, safe and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
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The wrongly-accused did Not shoot anybody. Anybody.
"WRONGLY ACCUSED" IS SIMPLY TOO MILD..... Although that is an accurate and true statement, Lee Oswald was not simply "wrongly accused", he was deliberately and maliciously framed by the authorities, and hastily lynched when it became clear that the authorities had no evidence or case against Lee Oswald. ( J. Edgar Hoover admitted that when he was on the phone with Lyndon Johnson.) The authorities knew that a dead man could not be tried, so they lynched him..... Case closed.
Hear!, hear!
Enjoy your week, Mr. Cakebread, no truer words have been spoken sir.
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Good morning gentlemen,
Last week this thread centered upon the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused just before the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush of an unarmed duly elected representative of the people unfolded in Dealey Plaza.
Brief Recap:
It was established that the wrongly-accused was downstairs in the domino lunchroom as late as 12:25PM, nowhere near the 6th floor, let alone lurking in the southeast corner holding a rifle (please excuse the eyeroll).
It was also established that multiple witnesses actually saw individuals standing in the southeast corner window 12-15 minutes prior to the firing sequence, while the wrongly-accused was nowhere near the 6th floor, let alone that window.
By the time Mr. Jarman (James/Junior) had reentered the TSBD via the rear entrance between 12:25PM and 12:28PM with his fellow coworker Mr. Norman (Harold), they had left the wrongly-accused (preparing his lunch in the domino lunchroom) in their wake as they boarded an elevator up to the 5th floor where they would view the presidential procession from.
Neither of these men, nor Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray) who would join them down on the 5th floor after spending considerable time up on the 6th floor, nor Mr. Dougherty (Jack) witnessed the wrongly-accused up on the 6th floor during this time sequence. With good reason, the wrongly-accused was nowhere near the 6th floor because as late as 12:25PM he was downstairs on the first floor in the domino room.
brb to transition into the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused during the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush upon an unarmed representative of the people by a bunch of lying treasonous cowards...
10:41AM EST...
128 days later, the LNs still cannot produce One Witness to substantiate the make believe fiction about Baker and Roy Truly being together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination. The only witness in the public record who did come forward, Mr. Piper (Eddie) only sees Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs (4 minutes later than the scripted fairytale about a 90 second phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and even more damaging to the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure, Mr. Piper describes the individual with Roy Truly as someone else other than an obviously dressed motorcycle officer donning an obvious white motorcycle helmet and large black boots).
brb...juggling paperwork on this end while working remotely
11:01AM EST...
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. After observing his fellow TSBD coworkers (Jarman & Norman) at 12:28PM move out of his view further away from the domino room towards the elevators downstairs on the first floor rear of the building, he did what any reasonable human being would do, now realizing that all the commotion out front meant the presidential procession was imminent, he secured his lunch and Coke/Dr. Pepper and made a beeline out of the domino room at the rear of the building, across the open space of the first floor and out into the crisp Autumn air, finding a position (albeit not an ideal spot to view all of the proceedings in its entirety), but at least some consolation given his late arrival an opportunity to at least view the parade from the back steps of the front entrance as it moved towards and passed the TSBD.
11:21AM...
For all the fairytale make believe about the wrongly-accused lurking upstairs with a rifle, this exchange with Mr. Jarman reveals the wrongly-accused was clueless about President Kennedy's itinerary that day, let alone specifically where he would be and precisely what time (Mr. Jarman knew MUCH more than the wrongly-accused) ---->
Mr. BALL - And what was said by him and by you?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, he was standing up in the window and I went to the window also, and he asked me what were the people gathering around on the corner for, and I told him that the President was supposed to pass that morning, and he asked me did I know which way he was coming, and I told him, yes; he probably come down Main and turn on Houston and then back again on Elm. Then he said, "Oh, I see," and that was all.
So now begs the question for all of those who parrot back the myth amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure about the wrongly-accused's guilt, How did he get up to the 6th floor between 12:28PM--12:30PM after his coworkers had taken both elevators upstairs? IF he took the stairs, Why didn't Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray) encounter him on his sojourn down from the 6th floor to the 5th floor to join Mr. Jarman and Mr. Norman? How did he get past Jack Dougherty who was working earnestly between both the 5th and 6th floors? Totally understandable if the LNs scurry away and cower from these simple questions, because to date they cannot even produce One Witness who can substantiate the outright lie about Baker & Roy truly being together at the base of the backstairs.
Back next week the Good Lord willing to share the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused immediately after the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush of an unarmed representative of the people by a bunch of lying treasonous cowards...
"Few men have the virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
Best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
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Good morning gentlemen,
Last week this thread centered upon the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused just before the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush of an unarmed duly elected representative of the people unfolded in Dealey Plaza.
Brief Recap:
It was established that the wrongly-accused was downstairs in the domino lunchroom as late as 12:25PM, nowhere near the 6th floor, let alone lurking in the southeast corner holding a rifle (please excuse the eyeroll).
It was also established that multiple witnesses actually saw individuals standing in the southeast corner window 12-15 minutes prior to the firing sequence, while the wrongly-accused was nowhere near the 6th floor, let alone that window.
By the time Mr. Jarman (James/Junior) had reentered the TSBD via the rear entrance between 12:25PM and 12:28PM with his fellow coworker Mr. Norman (Harold), they had left the wrongly-accused (preparing his lunch in the domino lunchroom) in their wake as they boarded an elevator up to the 5th floor where they would view the presidential procession from.
Neither of these men, nor Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray) who would join them down on the 5th floor after spending considerable time up on the 6th floor, nor Mr. Dougherty (Jack) witnessed the wrongly-accused up on the 6th floor during this time sequence. With good reason, the wrongly-accused was nowhere near the 6th floor because as late as 12:25PM he was downstairs on the first floor in the domino room.
brb to transition into the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused during the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush upon an unarmed representative of the people by a bunch of lying treasonous cowards...
10:41AM EST...
128 days later, the LNs still cannot produce One Witness to substantiate the make believe fiction about Baker and Roy Truly being together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination. The only witness in the public record who did come forward, Mr. Piper (Eddie) only sees Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs (4 minutes later than the scripted fairytale about a 90 second phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and even more damaging to the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure, Mr. Piper describes the individual with Roy Truly as someone else other than an obviously dressed motorcycle officer donning an obvious white motorcycle helmet and large black boots).
brb...juggling paperwork on this end while working remotely
11:01AM EST...
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. After observing his fellow TSBD coworkers (Jarman & Norman) at 12:28PM move out of his view further away from the domino room towards the elevators downstairs on the first floor rear of the building, he did what any reasonable human being would do, now realizing that all the commotion out front meant the presidential procession was imminent, he secured his lunch and Coke/Dr. Pepper and made a beeline out of the domino room at the rear of the building, across the open space of the first floor and out into the crisp Autumn air, finding a position (albeit not an ideal spot to view all of the proceedings in its entirety), but at least some consolation given his late arrival an opportunity to at least view the parade from the back steps of the front entrance as it moved towards and passed the TSBD.
11:21AM...
For all the fairytale make believe about the wrongly-accused lurking upstairs with a rifle, this exchange with Mr. Jarman reveals the wrongly-accused was clueless about President Kennedy's itinerary that day, let alone specifically where he would be and precisely what time (Mr. Jarman knew MUCH more than the wrongly-accused) ---->
Mr. BALL - And what was said by him and by you?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, he was standing up in the window and I went to the window also, and he asked me what were the people gathering around on the corner for, and I told him that the President was supposed to pass that morning, and he asked me did I know which way he was coming, and I told him, yes; he probably come down Main and turn on Houston and then back again on Elm. Then he said, "Oh, I see," and that was all.
So now begs the question for all of those who parrot back the myth amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure about the wrongly-accused's guilt, How did he get up to the 6th floor between 12:28PM--12:30PM after his coworkers had taken both elevators upstairs? IF he took the stairs, Why didn't Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray) encounter him on his sojourn down from the 6th floor to the 5th floor to join Mr. Jarman and Mr. Norman? How did he get past Jack Dougherty who was working earnestly between both the 5th and 6th floors? Totally understandable if the LNs scurry away and cower from these simple questions, because to date they cannot even produce One Witness who can substantiate the outright lie about Baker & Roy truly being together at the base of the backstairs.
Back next week the Good Lord willing to share the whereabouts of the wrongly-accused immediately after the chicken sh*t cowardly ambush of an unarmed representative of the people by a bunch of lying treasonous cowards...
"Few men have the virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
Best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
So now begs the question for all of those who parrot back the myth amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure about the wrongly-accused's guilt, How did he get up to the 6th floor between 12:28PM--12:30PM after his coworkers had taken both elevators upstairs?
The answer is obvious..... Lee Oswald could not have traveled from the first floor to the sixth floor window ( carrying a rifle) in two or three minutes. Both elevators were unavailable ( too slow anyway) and he could not have climbed the stairs to the sixth floor and been prepared to shoot the Pres in two or three minutes....
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The ? Is: How fast could a 24 year old 135 lb 5’ -9” height ex Maine run up 6 flights of L-shape staircases with 18 steps and mid landing and 15ft of floor landing/foot?
It was calculated the fastest probable average time a person could go DOWN the staircase is approx 10 sec/floor.
A. However going UP is fighting against gravity so it would probably take at least 15 sec per floor going up. So for 6 floors , the time required would = 90 secs
B.Then there is the 80 ft from
Domino room to the 1st staircase (ground floor) and the 180 ft from
6th floor staircase to the SE window. If Oswald can double time at 8 ft / sec then (80+180)/8 = 260/8 = 32sec
C.The time required to stack 2 boxes and place a 3rd box on the window ledge = 10 sec
D. The time required to get rifle out of some hiding place= 10 sec
Total time from Domino room to SE window 6th floor = A+B+C+D.= 145 secs= 2 min 25 secs.
the radio transmission that Norman and Jarman heard began at is 12;22
The earliest probable time therefore would be approx 12:23 when Norman/Jarman reach the ground floor elevator by the rear staircase after entering the TSBD via rear loading dock and passing by the Domino room.
Therefore Oswald would have had to increase his avg speed to 10ft across the horizontal floor distances and increase his vertical staircase ascent average time to 12 sec/floor to be able to place a box on the 6th floor SE window ledge 12:25.
Seems improbable, except for the fact that Marines are trained to do extraordinary things and a really motivated Marine only 24 years old and only 135 lbs , might be able to do it.
For this reason I prefer to not rely just on the logistical improbability but also take into account the Carolyn Arnold FBI report of sighting Oswald at 12:25 in the FRONT ENTRANCE LOBBY!
That would make it IMPOSSIBLE for Oswald to have placed the box on the window ledge at 12:24- 12:25.
Carolyn may have denied 12:25 report in later years, but there’s no reason for the FBI to make a fake report that gives the their prime suspect Oswald an alibi, nor was there any report stating that report was in error ( as far as I know)
My suspicion is that Ms Arnold realized the significance of the 12:25 time stamp report and decided ( or was “persuaded”) that it was in her best interest to stay with the 12:15 time stamp sighting of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom.
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Imo it’s IMPOSBLE for Oswald to run from the front entrance lobby of the TSBD and place a box on the window ledge of the 6th floor SE window by 12:25 if Oswald was sighted in the front lobby by Carolyn Arnold at 12:25.
It’s ALMOST impossible for Oswald to have run from the Domino room to the 6th floor SE window and placed a box in the window ledge by 12:25 if Oswald starts at 12:23 just after seeing Jarman and Norman
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Imo it’s IMPOSBLE for Oswald to run from the front entrance lobby of the TSBD and place a box on the window ledge of the 6th floor SE window by 12:25 if Oswald was sighted in the front lobby by Carolyn Arnold at 12:25.
It’s ALMOST impossible for Oswald to have run from the Domino room to the 6th floor SE window and placed a box in the window ledge by 12:25 if Oswald starts at 12:23 just after seeing Jarman and Norman
Lee Oswald saw Jarman and Norman at approximately 12:27....NOT 12:23.... At 12:23 J & N were still outside at the front of the TSBD trying to find a place were they could view the motorcade. They decided to go up to the fifth floor at about 12:25, so they would have passed by the 1st floor lunchroom at about 12:26 / 12:27.
I've long been puzzled why they decided to go to the 5th floor rather that the 6th floor..... Had they been told that the sixth floor was off limits during the motorcade?
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Walt, your timeline is the more probable one because mine is based on the 12:22 radio transmission which Norman and Jarman heard and it’s unlikely they left instantly upon hearing that report of the JFK limo en route to Dealey Plaza.
My point was that it’s virtually impossible for Oswald to place that box at 12:25 even if it were probable N&J left exactly at 12:22 thus passing by Oswald at 12:23 in the Domino room.
It’s highly doubtful that Oswald could run UP each staircase with 18 steps and a 15ft floor landing at a sustained rate of 12 secs per floor.
And he would have to run at a sustained 10 ft/sec over 80ft of ground floor and 180ft of the 6th floor.
And this doesn’t even consider how Jack Dougherty on the 5th floor and Bonnie Ray Williams on the 6th floor who didn’t take the elevator down from 6th floor until 12.24, missed seeing Oswald.
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IDK if Mr.Ford is still around or will ever visit this thread again to address a question that was raised as to why If Oswald was out front standing at PM location that Oswald never took the opportunity to shout out during any time during camera opportunities, nor did Oswald tell his brother, mother, or his wife about his location “out front” at time of shooting.
As I recall, Mr Fords explanation was something to the effect that Will Fritz had reassured Oswald he was not being charged with the assassination of JFK., so Oswald didn’t think it was necessary to offer up any alibi.
It’s seems unlikely imo, that Oswald would be reassured by anything Fritz may have said to Oswald during his interrogation.
After all, in the 1st hallway scene on camera , Oswald states he is being taken in because he had lived in the Soviet Union, and he shouts out “I’m just a patsy.”
So an CT alternative reason for Oswald not revealing an iron clad alibi location was, that Oswald WANTED a trial that would give him worldwide publicity and in then drop the bombshell alibi, becoming a sensational character exonerated and with a potential to sue the government for damages.
No doubt a book would be written and several TV show appearances would follow fulfilling Oswald’s desire to become a man of wealth and fame like his millionaire friend George DeM.
0f course the LN perspective is that PM is simply NOT Oswald . Oswald was the assassin shooter , therefore no reason for Oswald to shout anything other than “I’m a patsy” and “I categorically deny these charges”.
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IDK if Mr.Ford is still around or will ever visit this thread again to address a question that was raised as to why If Oswald was out front standing at PM location that Oswald never took the opportunity to shout out during any time during camera opportunities, nor did Oswald tell his brother, mother, or his wife about his location “out front” at time of shooting.
As I recall, Mr Fords explanation was something to the effect that Will Fritz had reassured Oswald he was not being charged with the assassination of JFK., so Oswald didn’t think it was necessary to offer up any alibi.
It’s seems unlikely imo, that Oswald would be reassured by anything Fritz may have said to Oswald during his interrogation.
After all, in the 1st hallway scene on camera , Oswald states he is being taken in because he had lived in the Soviet Union, and he shouts out “I’m just a patsy.”
So an CT alternative reason for Oswald not revealing an iron clad alibi location was, that Oswald WANTED a trial that would give him worldwide publicity and in then drop the bombshell alibi, becoming a sensational character exonerated and with a potential to sue the government for damages.
No doubt a book would be written and several TV show appearances would follow fulfilling Oswald’s desire to become a man of wealth and fame like his millionaire friend George DeM.
0f course the LN perspective is that PM is simply NOT Oswald . Oswald was the assassin shooter , therefore no reason for Oswald to shout anything other than “I’m a patsy” and “I categorically deny these charges”.
Zeon, just a point of interest, did Oswald know he had been accused of killing the President when he said "I'm just a patsy"? If not, why would he say he was outside the TBSD if he hadn't?
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Ray, the question is why didn’t Oswald say anything to the cameras ie “rhe public” when he had the chance?
And he didn’t say anything to his brother other than “there’s nothing there.
Neither was anything said to his wife or his mother.
The only time apparently that Oswald said something about being out front was when Hosty was present and made some notes about it.
Then apparently other officials were instructed to interrogate Oswald and wrote notes that Oswald denied ever saying anything pertaining to being out front.
I don’t see why Hosty would fabricate make any kind of notes that give Oswald a potential strong alibi.
However it’s even more a question why Oswald divulged to Hosty the out front declaration, yet then Oswald apparently decides to deny this and then remains silent about it afterwards
Other than the WC theory , the 2 alternatives left it seems to me are either Fritz or other FBI told Oswald something that made Oswald go silent about his “out front “ statement
Or Oswald changed his mind after talking to Hosty and began contemplating how he could advantage of the situation once he could get some prominent attorney of his choice, to whom Oswald would reveal during his trial.
IDK if some kind of coercion or psychological manipulation was used on Oswald to get him to refute something he said to Hosty, and remain silent about it afterwards.
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Ray, the question is why didn’t Oswald say anything to the cameras ie “rhe public” when he had the chance?
And he didn’t say anything to his brother other than “there’s nothing there.
Neither was anything said to his wife or his mother.
The only time apparently that Oswald said something about being out front was when Hosty was present and made some notes about it.
Then apparently other officials were instructed to interrogate Oswald and wrote notes that Oswald denied ever saying anything pertaining to being out front.
I don’t see why Hosty would fabricate make any kind of notes that give Oswald a potential strong alibi.
However it’s even more a question why Oswald divulged to Hosty the out front declaration, yet then Oswald apparently decides to deny this and then remains silent about it afterwards
Other than the WC theory , the 2 alternatives left it seems to me are either Fritz or other FBI told Oswald something that made Oswald go silent about his “out front “ statement
Or Oswald changed his mind after talking to Hosty and began contemplating how he could advantage of the situation once he could get some prominent attorney of his choice, to whom Oswald would reveal during his trial.
IDK if some kind of coercion or psychological manipulation was used on Oswald to get him to refute something he said to Hosty, and remain silent about it afterwards.
the question is why didn’t Oswald say anything to the cameras ie “rhe public” when he had the chance?
Lee said as much as he thought he could without blowing his cover..... He was still under the belief that it was all just a hoax which he thought would appear as though he had shot at JFK which would have made him a fugitive. He thought that Castro would welcome him as a friend of Cuba. If he had blurted out that he had not shot at JFK, he would have had no chance to infiltrate Cuba.....
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Sorry Walt. I forgot about your hoax theory.. So that makes it 3 CT alternatives to explain Oswald’s silence about “out front” (before cameras ) vs the LNs “no reason cause Oswald was the shooter” .
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Sorry Walt. I forgot about your hoax theory.. So that makes it 3 CT alternatives to explain Oswald’s silence about “out front” (before cameras ) vs the LNs “no reason cause Oswald was the shooter” .
There may be another reason that Lee didn't simply blurt out the truth by saying...." I'm just a Patsy, I was duped into thinking we were pretending that were were attempting to shoot the President...I didn't know that they were going to shoot him"
But the idea that he thought that he was participating in a staged hoax,, is based on the Walker hoax that occurred in April, And There's very little doubt that Lee was involved in that hoax....
You may recall that on Saturday 11/23/63 Lee told his brother Robert " Don't believe all of the stories you hear, there are things going on that you don't know about .... Things are not as they appear"
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So now begs the question for all of those who parrot back the myth amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure about the wrongly-accused's guilt, How did he get up to the 6th floor between 12:28PM--12:30PM after his coworkers had taken both elevators upstairs?
The answer is obvious..... Lee Oswald could not have traveled from the first floor to the sixth floor window ( carrying a rifle) in two or three minutes. Both elevators were unavailable ( too slow anyway) and he could not have climbed the stairs to the sixth floor and been prepared to shoot the Pres in two or three minutes....
An astute analysis there, Mr. Cakebread, well said sir.
If this case had gone to trial this summation alone shared by you would have convinced twelve (12) jurors of his peers the wrongly-accused was innocent, and a victim of being Framed for something he couldn't have done even if he was an Olympic Gold Medalist sprinter.
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The ? Is: How fast could a 24 year old 135 lb 5’ -9” height ex Maine run up 6 flights of L-shape staircases with 18 steps and mid landing and 15ft of floor landing/foot?
It was calculated the fastest probable average time a person could go DOWN the staircase is approx 10 sec/floor.
A. However going UP is fighting against gravity so it would probably take at least 15 sec per floor going up. So for 6 floors , the time required would = 90 secs
B.Then there is the 80 ft from
Domino room to the 1st staircase (ground floor) and the 180 ft from
6th floor staircase to the SE window. If Oswald can double time at 8 ft / sec then (80+180)/8 = 260/8 = 32sec
C.The time required to stack 2 boxes and place a 3rd box on the window ledge = 10 sec
D. The time required to get rifle out of some hiding place= 10 sec
Total time from Domino room to SE window 6th floor = A+B+C+D.= 145 secs= 2 min 25 secs.
the radio transmission that Norman and Jarman heard began at is 12;22
The earliest probable time therefore would be approx 12:23 when Norman/Jarman reach the ground floor elevator by the rear staircase after entering the TSBD via rear loading dock and passing by the Domino room.
Therefore Oswald would have had to increase his avg speed to 10ft across the horizontal floor distances and increase his vertical staircase ascent average time to 12 sec/floor to be able to place a box on the 6th floor SE window ledge 12:25.
Seems improbable, except for the fact that Marines are trained to do extraordinary things and a really motivated Marine only 24 years old and only 135 lbs , might be able to do it.
For this reason I prefer to not rely just on the logistical improbability but also take into account the Carolyn Arnold FBI report of sighting Oswald at 12:25 in the FRONT ENTRANCE LOBBY!
That would make it IMPOSSIBLE for Oswald to have placed the box on the window ledge at 12:24- 12:25.
Carolyn may have denied 12:25 report in later years, but there’s no reason for the FBI to make a fake report that gives the their prime suspect Oswald an alibi, nor was there any report stating that report was in error ( as far as I know)
My suspicion is that Ms Arnold realized the significance of the 12:25 time stamp report and decided ( or was “persuaded”) that it was in her best interest to stay with the 12:15 time stamp sighting of Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom.
Sheer brilliance, Mr. Mason, appreciate your keen analysis shared here, thanks for imparting your key details fully demonstrating the impossibility of the wrongly-accused navigating those back-stairs as if he was an Olympic Gold Medalist sprinter.
All of this bogus case's "evidence" against the wrongly-accused has ever had was manufactured and make-believe "evidence" contrived amid a hasty script mired in the stench of horse manure to Frame him.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Lee Oswald saw Jarman and Norman at approximately 12:27....NOT 12:23.... At 12:23 J & N were still outside at the front of the TSBD trying to find a place were they could view the motorcade. They decided to go up to the fifth floor at about 12:25, so they would have passed by the 1st floor lunchroom at about 12:26 / 12:27.
I've long been puzzled why they decided to go to the 5th floor rather that the 6th floor..... Had they been told that the sixth floor was off limits during the motorcade?
Critical-thinkers can certainly appreciate your inquisitiveness here, Mr. Cakebread, @ quote, I've long been puzzled why they decided to go to the 5th floor rather that the 6th floor..... Had they been told that the sixth floor was off limits during the motorcade?
It wouldn't be surprising if they were simply following Roy Truly's orders to stay clear of the area as he had already ordered Mr. Doughtery (Jack) to perform a few non-related work task up there...and critical-thinkers shouldn't give Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray) a free pass either...but more importantly Why was Roy Truly over in the sniper nest? ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver. Bunch of lying chicken sh*t treasonous cowards. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Walt, your timeline is the more probable one because mine is based on the 12:22 radio transmission which Norman and Jarman heard and it’s unlikely they left instantly upon hearing that report of the JFK limo en route to Dealey Plaza.
My point was that it’s virtually impossible for Oswald to place that box at 12:25 even if it were probable N&J left exactly at 12:22 thus passing by Oswald at 12:23 in the Domino room.
It’s highly doubtful that Oswald could run UP each staircase with 18 steps and a 15ft floor landing at a sustained rate of 12 secs per floor.
And he would have to run at a sustained 10 ft/sec over 80ft of ground floor and 180ft of the 6th floor.
And this doesn’t even consider how Jack Dougherty on the 5th floor and Bonnie Ray Williams on the 6th floor who didn’t take the elevator down from 6th floor until 12.24, missed seeing Oswald.
A fair assessment there, Mr. Mason, certainly appreciate your sense of integrity and honesty @ moving the timeline further away from 12:22PM, citing that Mr. Jarman (Junior) and Mr. Norman (Harold) hadn't even departed the front area of the building, let alone accounted for the time it would take them to walk towards the rear of the building along Houston Street...
Good call! @ both you & Mr. Cakebread for establishing an honest timeline.
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Zeon, just a point of interest, did Oswald know he had been accused of killing the President when he said "I'm just a patsy"? If not, why would he say he was outside the TBSD if he hadn't?
A valid point, Mr. Mitcham, because even as the wrongly-accused entered his midnight presser he still didn't know what for and/or why he was being showcased ---->
Bunch of lying treasonous cowards Framing an innocent party amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
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IDK if Mr.Ford is still around or will ever visit this thread again to address a question that was raised as to why If Oswald was out front standing at PM location that Oswald never took the opportunity to shout out during any time during camera opportunities, nor did Oswald tell his brother, mother, or his wife about his location “out front” at time of shooting.[/i]
My response: A fair question there, Mr. Mason, please see the post directly above this one (at that time, the wrongly-accused didn't even know he was being charged with anything, let alone have any idea why he was being showcased).
Of course, in fairness to your question, there did come a time when he was made aware of the charges (which he emphatically denies). That was the last time officialdom would ever allow any more audio and/or video footage of the wrongly-accused sharing His Truth, which is the whole truth, He was not upstairs on the 6th floor, let alone where Roy Truly visited over in the sniper's nest before the rifle & shell casings were planted, err, found.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Gentlemen,
Just a brief recap: this thread has shared where the wrongly-accused was before the motorcade passed by the TSBD (Mr. Jarman shared that gem with us, and confirming it even more so the wrongly-accused cited "Junior's" movements as he and his fellow coworker Mr. Norman (Harold) reentered the TSBD at the rear between 12:27 - 12:28PM. We all are wise enough to know anyone lurking in a sniper's nest six stories up in the front of the building could not have shared this key encounter with Jarman & Norman in the rear of building six stories below.
This thread also shared where the wrongly-accused was when the motorcade passed the TSBD (right out front like he said he was), before a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure desperately attempts to say otherwise. Today, the focus is upon the wrongly-accused's movements following the cowardly chicken sh*t ambush upon a duly elected representative of the people.
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver. Brb
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Hearing the rousing anticipatory cheers outside, the wrongly-accused gathered his Dr. Pepper and remaining remnants of his lunch and left the domino lunch room, where just moments before he had observed two of his fellow coworkers reenter the building from the rear.
Quickening his steps he made a beeline across the expanse of the first-floor, through the double-doors and outside into the crisp Autumn air. Late to the party, his path was blocked by other coworkers on the front-entrance stairs to proceed any further down the steps, so he took up the only remaining position left, standing in the rear atop the entrance steps of his workplace, essentially out front like he has said all along. Carolyn Arnold observed his late arrival, well, until she was made an offer she couldn't refuse...
Shots fired! The Earth stood still for what seemed like an eternity...then slowly the shocking realization of what had just transpired registered through out Dealey Plaza. The wrongly-accused and Mr. Frazier looked in wonder at one another amid sheer shock atop the entrance steps...
Gentlemen, will have to pick up here next week the Good Lord willing to share precisely the wrongly-accused's movements as he reenters the front entrance...factual evidence will be shared (a dozen specific movements he makes downstairs, nowhere near a fictitious phantom encounter in the 2nd floor lunchroom). Best wishes to all to remain safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
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Gentlemen,
Just a brief recap: this thread has shared where the wrongly-accused was before the motorcade passed by the TSBD (Mr. Jarman shared that gem with us, and confirming it even more so the wrongly-accused cited "Junior's" movements as he and his fellow coworker Mr. Norman (Harold) reentered the TSBD at the rear between 12:27 - 12:28PM. We all are wise enough to know anyone lurking in a sniper's nest six stories up in the front of the building could not have shared this key encounter with Jarman & Norman in the rear of building six stories below.
This thread also shared where the wrongly-accused was when the motorcade passed the TSBD (right out front like he said he was), before a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure desperately attempts to say otherwise. Today, the focus is upon the wrongly-accused's movements following the cowardly chicken sh*t ambush upon a duly elected representative of the people.
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver. Brb
This thread also shared where the wrongly-accused was when the motorcade passed the TSBD (right out front like he said he was),
Fritz asked Lee where he was at the time the President passed by the TSBD, and Lee told him that he was in the first floor lunchroom.
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This thread also shared where the wrongly-accused was when the motorcade passed the TSBD (right out front like he said he was),
Fritz asked Lee where he was at the time the President passed by the TSBD, and Lee told him that he was in the first floor lunchroom.
Gentlemen,
Good morning! In fairness to Mr. Cakebread, I will respectfully respect his take on this exchange. However, void of any audio and/or video recording of the wrongly-accused's multiple interrogations over several days time anyone less than forthcoming could say he said this, or he said that, etc.
We already know that two of officialdom's "witnesses" (the lying rooftop tandem of Baker and Roy Truly) are outright liars, shamelessly parroting back a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure as if it was the Truth, whole Truth and nothing but the Truth.
That said, I don't personally believe, and would caution others as well to be wary of anything the wrongly-accused is to said to have said after he was conveniently silenced. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Speaking of the lying rooftop tandem, it's been six months now since an otherwise easy enough challenge was issued by moi to the LN's to produce One Witness to substantiate the fairytale that Baker and Roy Truly were together on the backstairs immediately following the cowardly ambush on a duly elected representative of the people.
To date, they have nothing. There's a reason for that.
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The only person who saw Roy Truly at the base of the backstairs immediately following the assassination did Not see him with a white helmeted motorcycle officer donning long black boots. Moreover, unlike the horse manure spread that the lying rooftop tandem would have us believe about a 90 second dash to a phantom encounter, even Roy Truly didn't arrive at the base of the backstairs--Mr. Piper (Eddie's) words not mine--until 4-5 minutes afterwards.
Moreover, Mr. Piper's time-frame is further buttressed by the following exchanges ---->
Mr. Ball: Do you have any idea how long it was after the three sounds or three noises until you saw Truly and Baker going into
the building?
Mr. SHELLEY. It would have to be 3 or 4 minutes.
and now this one, which places Roy Truly still downstairs on the first floor loooong after he and his lying rooftop mate should have been experiencing their phantom encounter amid their parroted back horse manure read from a hastily contrived script.
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.
So now they want us to believe Roy Truly can be upstairs experiencing a phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused, yet somehow still be downstairs giving Mr. Shelley an order to guard the elevators.
Liars lie..
Brb to get into the whereabouts and movements of the wrongly-accused post assassination time...
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Movements of the Wrongly-Accused post assassination time...
*Given Mr. Darnell's video film capture, the wrongly-accused remained outside with his TSBD fellow employees for at the very least 4 minutes. Mr. Shelley's testimony placing both Baker and Roy Truly outside rings true, as Mr. Darnell's film also attests (there's Baker running past Roy Truly, while the wrongly-accused is still present on the upper front-entrance steps observing female employees climbing the stairs to reenter the building.
*Upon reentering the building himself, at some point after that 4 minute interval outside upon the entrance steps he took up a position over by the small storage room on the first floor (multiple witnesses saw him there upon reentering the building with Mr. Campbell (Ochus).
Over the next 3-4 minutes he engages two different news reporters, assisting them at different time intervals to where they may find a phone to call in the latest developments amid a chaotic scene unfolding in Dealey Plaza.
More to follow next week, but just wanted to share one more major gaffe one of the lying rooftop tandem members reveals while simultaneously negating their fairytale rooftop experience up on that otherwise locked roof from the inside...
Inspector Sawyer (Truth) versus Baker (desperately trying to keep his lies straight)
BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it
couldn’t have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time We left, got
up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard
the call at 12 :34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir
Bring your attention to the difference between 12:34PM and 12:37PM (three minutes) According to the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure, the lying rooftop tandem should have exited their phantom encounter w/the wrongly-accused 90 seconds ago while continuing their dash up the backstairs, but upon taking Inspector Sawyer's mere three minute differential in mind, here's Baker negating his and Roy truly's dash up to that otherwise locked rooftop ---->
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.
Mr. DULLES - City of Dallas Police?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. And he was on, I really didn't notice which floor he was on, but that is the first thing I saw.
Poor Baker simply telling the truth about an actual event but forgetting the outright lie about being elsewhere when it actually happened (up on the roof at this time interval with Roy Truly) Liars lie...but Baker cannot be up on the roof for 10 minutes (his words not mine, yet encounter Inspector Sawyer, who was only in the building long after the lying rooftop tandem were clinging to their hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure, and gone before they begin their fairytale descent from the roof amid another scripted lie.
Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder. -- George Washington
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Back next week the Good Lord willing. Best wishes to all to remain well, safe, healthy and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Reconstructing a more accurate timeline of the wrongly-accused's actual departure from Dealey Plaza places the time after 1:02PM CST ---->
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2888.0.html
The fire truck seen in Reply No. 2 within the above link provided by Mr. Reeves (thank you sir) provides an image to go along with the following dispatch time ---->
given the statement of Dallas fire-fighter, Leslie Warnock, Jr. (working out of the Number 3 Fire Station), their red fire-truck engine wasn't dispatched to Dealey Plaza until 1:02PM CST (Mr. Warnock's words, not mine). In that same image we also have the wrongly-accused standing there with his supervisor Mr. Shelley in his dark suit attire worn that afternoon. The wrongly-accused was nowhere near 10th & Patton as he is clearly standing there donning the same clothing he would be later apprehended in at the Texas Theatre.
Lest anyone thinks otherwise, two key witnesses for the WC confirm the colour of the wrongly-accused's shirt and gray pants worn that afternoon. Moreover, further collaborating the observations of those two key witnesses the whole world is privy to the same clothing amid his midnight presser.
Contrary to the hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure...
"Half the Truth is often a great Lie" -- Benjamin Franklin
the wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. Amazing what some lying treasonous cowards will do and say for thirty pieces of silver.
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
Back next week, the Good Lord willing to introduce yet another key interval demonstrating the wrongly-accused remained in Dealey Plaza looooong after officialdom's hastily contrived script to frame him. Best wishes to all to remain well, safe, healthy, and free of any lingering COVID-19 variants.
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Planting "evidence"... ?
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A simple Challenge to the LNs remains unmet six months later. As exemplary JFK researcher Sean Murphy would say, "They have nothing".
They have failed to produce even One Witness who can substantiate the horse manure about Roy Truly & Marrion Baker being together at the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the assassination. As this simple challenge demonstrates there's a world of difference between substantiated facts and a flimsy, hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to frame an innocent party.
Rather than making that fictitious 90 second dash up the backstairs to a phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused in the 2nd floor lunchroom, Roy Truly remained downstairs for over 4 minutes to make this exchange ---->
Mr. SHELLEY. Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.
The only way Roy Truly could give this verbal order was to be still downstairs long after Mr Shelley & Mr. Lovelady made their way back into the building after their time consuming tour of the Dealey Plaza grounds and subsequently returning inside the building via the rear entrance. In the real world Roy Truly cannot be up on the upper floors with Baker amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure and communicating with Mr. Shelley downstairs at the same time on the 1st floor. Oops!
A phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused on the 2nd floor, a magic bullet and now Roy Truly being in two places all at the same time. The Warren Omission's "evidence" makes even a Disney fairytale blush.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Since the WC timeline for Baker/Truly reaching the 2nd floor landing as early as 75 secs precludes a reasonable probability for Oswald having used the staircases to descend from 6th floor, then perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.
The timeline can remain intact, especially with regard to Mrs Dorothy Garner’ 4th floor sighting of Baker and Truly “coming up” the staircase just after Garner “heard them” ( Adams/Styles) going down. This establishes Garner having had to exit 4th floor office door approx not later than 40 sec post shots which precludes Oswald or any other 6th floor gunman from having used the staircase to escape.
The question then remains how did a 6th floor shooter at the SE window escape to the ground floor without being seen?
One possibility is the use of one of the 2 rear freight elevators.
It’s quite probable that a 6th floor window SE corner window gunman could run to and enter the East elevator as soon as 25 sec post last shot. He could have reached the 2nd floor as early as 50 sec post shots and exited into the immediate adjacent storage room. He could have have bypassed Baker/Truly unseen just the same way that the supposed Jack Dougherty was able to do.
However, such a scenario would require an accomplice operating the East elevator to return that elevator to the 5th floor by 70 secs post shots.
This would place Jack Dougherty as the primary suspect to be That accomplice or else have to discard Dougherty’s account of him using the West elevator as well as discarding Bakers use of the East elevator when Baker/Trully reach the 5th floor byy staircase.
If the proposal is being made that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter is false, then it’s not unreasonable to propose that Baker/Truly and Jack Dougherty accounts could be contrived as well. In which case , an escape by 6th floor shooter using the East elevator operated by an accomplice it a possibility not that improbable.
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Since the WC timeline for Baker/Truly reaching the 2nd floor landing as early as 75 secs precludes a reasonable probability for Oswald having used the staircases to descend from 6th floor, then perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.
****A well-written summation there, Mr. Mason, on all of your key points shared. Always an encouraging read when astute researchers like you amid keen critical-thinking call out the hastily contrived script to frame an innocent party for what it is. The lying rooftop tandem simply parroted back that hastily contrived script. Amazing what some people will do for 30 pieces of silver.
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
The timeline can remain intact, especially with regard to Mrs Dorothy Garner’ 4th floor sighting of Baker and Truly “coming up” the staircase just after Garner “heard them” ( Adams/Styles) going down. This establishes Garner having had to exit 4th floor office door approx not later than 40 sec post shots which precludes Oswald or any other 6th floor gunman from having used the staircase to escape.
****Did Mrs. Garner specifically say precisely when she saw Roy Truly? If memory serves me correctly Mrs. Garner merely intimated she saw Roy Truly that afternoon more than a few times. I wouldn't doubt if she saw him on his way up to the sniper's nest ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The question then remains how did a 6th floor shooter at the SE window escape to the ground floor without being seen?
****A valid question, Mr. Mason, an excellent point to consider. However, how do we know for sure that Mr. Dougherty didn't fire those shots to embellish the hastily contrived script about the shots responsible for the wounds of POTUS and Governor Connally came from that staged sniper's next?; and, afterwards simply used the elevator down to the first-floor, where he simply blends into the chaotic surroundings as if he's just as shocked as anyone else about what just happened?
It’s quite probable that a 6th floor window SE corner window gunman could run to and enter the East elevator as soon as 25 sec post last shot. He could have reached the 2nd floor as early as 50 sec post shots and exited into the immediate adjacent storage room. He could have have bypassed Baker/Truly unseen just the same way that the supposed Jack Dougherty was able to do.
****Another interesting point to ponder, Mr. Mason, though I believe Marrion Baker--did in fact encounter Mr. Dougherty on either the 4th or 5th floor. Of course, with a hastily contrived script hanging over his head he had little choice but to play along with a phantom encounter with the wrongly-accused instead.
If the proposal is being made that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter is false, then it’s not unreasonable to propose that Baker/Truly and Jack Dougherty accounts could be contrived as well.
****Well-said, Mr. Mason @ officialdom's hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. They chose to take some truthful elements and mesh that with phantom activities amid wrong sequences of events as they unfolded...
"Half a truth is often a great lie" -- Ben Franklin
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. Those truly responsible for the demise of a duly elected representative of the people are a bunch of chicken-sm*t treasonous cowards.
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iF there is a longer interlude between Mrs Garner having heard Adams and Styles (A/S) on the stairs ( and Baker/Truly coming up the stairs then a 6th floor gunman could have taken the West elevator down starting as early as 35 sec post shots and arrive to the ground floor by 70secs about 10 secs behind A/S reaching ground floor via stairs approx 60 sec post shots.
This is enough time for A/S to have exited out of TSBD by the east door of annex bldg loading dock( and running into the 2plainscolthes men), before the gunman exits from the west elevator and enters annex bldg going WEST to exit a west side door of TSBD approx 90 sec post shots. This west side of TSBD was probably not yet guarded and was not in LOS of the 2 plaimsclothes officers who A/S saw.
If the gunman had a type rifle that quickly folds in half then he could hide the rifle fake under a jacket when exiting the west side of TSBD and has a reasonably probability going unnoticed after that , probably getting in a nearby car which drove away via other parking lot route by 2min post shots.
Of course this hypothetical scenario spends on Dougherty’s story being contrived by the WC purposely leading Dougherty to make a very confused testimony and also Baker/Truly time line to the rear elevators contrived along with a fabricated 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.
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iF there is a longer interlude between Mrs Garner having heard Adams and Styles (A/S) on the stairs ( and Baker/Truly coming up the stairs then a 6th floor gunman could have taken the West elevator down starting as early as 35 sec post shots and arrive to the ground floor by 70secs about 10 secs behind A/S reaching ground floor via stairs approx 60 sec post shots.
This is enough time for A/S to have exited out of TSBD by the east door of annex bldg loading dock( and running into the 2plainscolthes men), before the gunman exits from the west elevator and enters annex bldg going WEST to exit a west side door of TSBD approx 90 sec post shots. This west side of TSBD was probably not yet guarded and was not in LOS of the 2 plaimsclothes officers who A/S saw.
If the gunman had a type rifle that quickly folds in half then he could hide the rifle fake under a jacket when exiting the west side of TSBD and has a reasonably probability going unnoticed after that , probably getting in a nearby car which drove away via other parking lot route by 2min post shots.
Of course this hypothetical scenario spends on Dougherty’s story being contrived by the WC purposely leading Dougherty to make a very confused testimony and also Baker/Truly time line to the rear elevators contrived along with a fabricated 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.
An interesting scenario, Mr. Mason, however one has to take into consideration two things: (A) IF the gunman took an elevator down to the 1st floor, Wouldn't that have given the lying rooftop tandem (Roy Truly & Marrion Baker) access to an elevator? If so, Why did the hastily contrived script suggest that no elevator was present for their ascent upwards? and (B) Ms. Adams was very clear in her testimony that she and Ms. Styles (Sandra) did Not hear any footsteps on the stairway nor the rumbling descent of an elevator in their wake.
You have a keen sense of perception and discernment alike, Mr. Mason, and if given genuine facts in this case you would be able to construct a more realistic timeline of events for sure. The gunman in question is either Mr. Dougherty or the fleeing male described by eyewitness James Worrell (read his testimony when time permits). Coincidence or not, The man he saw fleeing from the back of the TSBD within 3 minutes of shots fired fits Baker's physical description of the man he actually encounters on the 5h floor. Either way I believe the sixth floor shooter was simply creating a staging area to lend credence to the notion that all shots were fired from the TSBD. Nothing could be further from the truth. President Kennedy sustained at least two front entrance wounds.
Eight months later, and the LNs still cannot provide a single credible eyewitness, just One Witness who can substantiate the lie about Roy Truly and Marrion Baker appearing together at the base of the backstairs. There's a reason for that. An outright lie amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure cannot be substantiated. Same goes for the phantom encounter w/the wrongly-accused in the 2nd floor lunchroom and their bogus exploits up on an otherwise locked rooftop from the inside. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody. He was standing outside upon the front-entrance stairs as the presidential limousine drove past the TSBD building. Moreover, he was still in Dealey Plaza beyond the dispatch time of 1:06PM of Fire Station 3's Big Red Engine, thus nowhere near the events unfolding across town at 10th & Patton.
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Liars R Us ---->
"Half a truth is often a great lie" -- Ben Franklin
While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Roy "nothing Truly about him" is having a verbal exchange with Bill Shelley seven floors below ---->
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in.
As if the horse manure about a magic-bullet isn't already enough bogus magic in this case, now Roy Truly gets to magically be in two different places all at once, in this time sequence up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside and seven stories below speaking with Mr. Shelley (please excuse the eyeroll). Mr. Shelley's timeline amid his testimony, not mine.
While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Marrion Baker is otherwise riding in an elevator when he is encountering Inspector Sawyer ---->
Mr. BELIN - As the elevator was moving?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; downward.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.
The problem here is that Baker cannot be up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside for 10 minutes, yet encounters Inspector Sawyer who shares the following ---->
BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWPER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it
couldn’t have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time We left, got
up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard
the call at 12 :34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir
Liars lie...
Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
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Since the WC timeline for Baker/Truly reaching the 2nd floor landing as early as 75 secs precludes a reasonable probability for Oswald having used the staircases to descend from 6th floor, then perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.
The timeline can remain intact, especially with regard to Mrs Dorothy Garner’ 4th floor sighting of Baker and Truly “coming up” the staircase just after Garner “heard them” ( Adams/Styles) going down. This establishes Garner having had to exit 4th floor office door approx not later than 40 sec post shots which precludes Oswald or any other 6th floor gunman from having used the staircase to escape.
The question then remains how did a 6th floor shooter at the SE window escape to the ground floor without being seen?
One possibility is the use of one of the 2 rear freight elevators.
It’s quite probable that a 6th floor window SE corner window gunman could run to and enter the East elevator as soon as 25 sec post last shot. He could have reached the 2nd floor as early as 50 sec post shots and exited into the immediate adjacent storage room. He could have have bypassed Baker/Truly unseen just the same way that the supposed Jack Dougherty was able to do.
However, such a scenario would require an accomplice operating the East elevator to return that elevator to the 5th floor by 70 secs post shots.
This would place Jack Dougherty as the primary suspect to be That accomplice or else have to discard Dougherty’s account of him using the West elevator as well as discarding Bakers use of the East elevator when Baker/Trully reach the 5th floor byy staircase.
If the proposal is being made that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter is false, then it’s not unreasonable to propose that Baker/Truly and Jack Dougherty accounts could be contrived as well. In which case , an escape by 6th floor shooter using the East elevator operated by an accomplice it a possibility not that improbable.
perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.
I believe that it is an established fact that Baker and Truly did encounter Lee Oswald who was drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom ( Lee may not have been actually in the act drinking the coke but he had the coke in his hand when Baker and Truly encountered him.) This bit of information surfaced within a couple of hours after the shooting. Just a few hours after the murder, Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that one of his officers had encountered Lee Harrrrrrrvey Osssssswald (Boooooo Hissss ) calmly drinking a coke in the book store lunchroom just a few minutes after he had shot the President. Curry was using the "Calmly Drinking a coke" as a way of depicting Lee Oswald as a cold blooded inhuman killer..... But the fact remains Curry acknowledged that the lunchroom encounter did in fact happen. ..... And Lee acknowledged that he had been confronted by a police officer while he was in the second floor lunchroom getting a coke for his lunch.
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Liars R Us ---->
"Half a truth is often a great lie" -- Ben Franklin
While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Roy "nothing Truly about him" is having a verbal exchange with Bill Shelley seven floors below ---->
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast.
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in.
As if the horse manure about a magic-bullet isn't already enough bogus magic in this case, now Roy Truly gets to magically be in two different places all at once, in this time sequence up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside and seven stories below speaking with Mr. Shelley (please excuse the eyeroll). Mr. Shelley's timeline amid his testimony, not mine.
While his sworn testimony suggests he is up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside, Marrion Baker is otherwise riding in an elevator when he is encountering Inspector Sawyer ---->
Mr. BELIN - As the elevator was moving?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; downward.
Mr. BELIN - All right.
Mr. BAKER - The next thing that I noticed was Inspector Sawyer, he was on one of those floors there, he is a police inspector.
The problem here is that Baker cannot be up on an otherwise locked roof from the inside for 10 minutes, yet encounters Inspector Sawyer who shares the following ---->
BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWPER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it
couldn’t have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time We left, got
up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard
the call at 12 :34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir
Liars lie...
Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
I agree completely Mr Ford. So my question is:.... WHY? I believe that Truly may have been part of the conspiracy ( he certainly was a accessory after the fact ) ..... but I doubt that Baker had any foreknowledge of the plot... He also was an accessory after the fact.....And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.
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perhaps just the “lunchroom “ encounter” part of the story should be discarded.
I believe that it is an established fact that Baker and Truly did encounter Lee Oswald who was drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom ( Lee may not have been actually in the act drinking the coke but he had the coke in his hand when Baker and Truly encountered him.) This bit of information surfaced within a couple of hours after the shooting. Just a few hours after the murder, Chief Jesse Curry told reporters that one of his officers had encountered Lee Harrrrrrrvey Osssssswald (Boooooo Hissss ) calmly drinking a coke in the book store lunchroom just a few minutes after he had shot the President. Curry was using the "Calmly Drinking a coke" as a way of depicting Lee Oswald as a cold blooded inhuman killer..... But the fact remains Curry acknowledged that the lunchroom encounter did in fact happen. ..... And Lee acknowledged that he had been confronted by a police officer while he was in the second floor lunchroom getting a coke for his lunch.
Mr. Cakebread, though I have the highest respect for your diligent and exemplary research, we will just have to respectfully disagree on the phantom 2nd floor encounter. Moving on to your entry about Roy "nothing truly about him" is something we both can agree upon.
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Roy "nothing truly about him" and Marrion Baker lied their eyes out to frame an innocent party. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
I agree completely Mr Ford. So my question is:.... WHY? I believe that Truly may have been part of the conspiracy ( he certainly was a accessory after the fact ) ..... but I doubt that Baker had any foreknowledge of the plot... He also was an accessory after the fact.....And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.
just like you, Mr. Cakebread, to ask the right questions.
All the right questions in this case are looooong overdue. With good reason because no one dared to ask them save for more than a few heroic real-life genuine patriots who actually cared about our once free, open and democratic Republic. They quickly understood the difference between a well planned coup d'état by a bunch of lying chicken sh*t treasonous cowards and a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to frame an innocent party...brb
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And I believe he was nothing but a lowly patrolman who simply followed the instructions and concurred with the accounts of his superiors.
You know, Lil' Lee probably had a similar low opinion of police and other authority figures. You have many rifles and handguns, no?
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So my question is:.... WHY? ...
Well, in Roy Truly's case, look no further than his intense hatred of President Kennedy's fair-minded stance on Civil Rights. President Kennedy envisioned a world where all United States citizens would be afforded first-class citizenship. Some southern Jim Crow narrow-minded, self-absorbed bigots were truly alarmed by what they thought was a young whippersnapper encroaching on their way of life in those times. Wouldn't surprise if plenty of hushed whispers in the southern region soon turned into mega-phone like rallies blaring hate filled threats akin to Hell, No! Kennedy's got to go...
Amid this kind of hostile backdrop, the devious and shrewd planners knew they had a legion of "suspects" to parade in front of the world to blame for the demise of President Kennedy. However, a strange twist of fate happened. A young Marine returning home stateside could now introduce more leverage (the planners could portray him as commie loving, deranged killer if they could successfully maneuver him into position to take the fall) The planners would have a duped patsy and now even gain favorable reasons to attack communist Cuba as well. Things were coming together nicely, or so they thought, fuc*ing clowns.
The wrongly accused was much smarter and adept at spy-craft than they ever thought, and with one single move, he sealed his fate. That single move happened upon the entrance steps of the TSBD building. Not talking about the pre-assassination where he was standing there outside as the presidential limousine passes by. I'm making reference to a post-assassination move he made on those same stairs at the front-entrance. Had he not made that move, I believe Mr. Dougherty was steered into position to be charged with the assassination of President Kennedy. A sudden, unexpected move on those front entrance steps changed the course of history. Back next week with more specifics the Good Lord willing. A safe & wonderful weekend everyone.
Way past time for the truth about Roy 'nothing truly about him to be revealed....
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn't.
So, begs the question, since Roy Truly didn't go over to the sniper's nest at this time interval, just when did he occupy the sp[ace of the sniper's nest? ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver...
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
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So my question is:.... WHY? ...
Well, in Roy Truly's case, look no further than his intense hatred of President Kennedy's fair-minded stance on Civil Rights. President Kennedy envisioned a world where all United States citizens would be afforded first-class citizenship. Some southern Jim Crow narrow-minded, self-absorbed bigots were truly alarmed by what they thought was a young whippersnapper encroaching on their way of life in those times. Wouldn't surprise if plenty of hushed whispers in the southern region soon turned into mega-phone like rallies blaring hate filled threats akin to Hell, No! Kennedy's got to go...
Amid this kind of hostile backdrop, the devious and shrewd planners knew they had a legion of "suspects" to parade in front of the world to blame for the demise of President Kennedy. However, a strange twist of fate happened. A young Marine returning home stateside could now introduce more leverage (the planners could portray him as commie loving, deranged killer if they could successfully maneuver him into position to take the fall) The planners would have a duped patsy and now even gain favorable reasons to attack communist Cuba as well. Things were coming together nicely, or so they thought, fuc*ing clowns.
The wrongly accused was much smarter and adept at spy-craft than they ever thought, and with one single move, he sealed his fate. That single move happened upon the entrance steps of the TSBD building. Not talking about the pre-assassination where he was standing there outside as the presidential limousine passes by. I'm making reference to a post-assassination move he made on those same stairs at the front-entrance. Had he not made that move, I believe Mr. Dougherty was steered into position to be charged with the assassination of President Kennedy. A sudden, unexpected move on those front entrance steps changed the course of history. Back next week with more specifics the Good Lord willing. A safe & wonderful weekend everyone.
Way past time for the truth about Roy 'nothing truly about him to be revealed....
Mr. BELIN. When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir; I sure didn't.
So, begs the question, since Roy Truly didn't go over to the sniper's nest at this time interval, just when did he occupy the sp[ace of the sniper's nest? ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Amazing what some people will do for thirty pieces of silver...
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" -- George Washington
"A young Marine returning home stateside could now introduce more leverage (the planners could portray him as commie loving, deranged killer if they could successfully maneuver him into position to take the fall) The planners would have a duped patsy and now even gain favorable reasons to attack communist Cuba as well. Things were coming together nicely, or so they thought, fuc*ing clowns."
(the planners could portray him as commie loving, deranged killer if they could successfully maneuver him into position to take the fall)
Lee fell right into their clutches ......In his efforts to dupe Castro's spies in the United States, into believing that he was a bonified Castro admirer, he had Marina take a photo (CE 133A) of him dressed like a rough and ready guerilla fighter ( in the image of Fidel Castro ) then he went off to general Walker's house and fired a bullet through Walker's window to make it appear as though he'd tried to kill Walker.
They ( Hoover's agents) recognized that they had a genuine patsy whom they could set up and frame for the murder of JFK.
The planners would have a duped patsy and now even gain favorable reasons to attack communist Cuba as well. Things were coming together nicely, or so they thought, fuc*ing clowns.
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I follow the Walt theory given the proposition that Oswald may have been a CIA operative in the defector program that got Oswald into USSR .
However I’m still having trouble with the -pre planting of an MC rifle which introduces so much doubt that it doesn’t really seem to make sense to have planted it.
Is it reasonably certain that Boone 1:22 time stamp is verified?
I calculated that the average time spent by Tom Aleya’s search team searchi floor by floor (plus roof) was only about 2.5 minutes /floor which seems be not much of a thorough search imo, until then Fritz shows up 18 minutes after the FIRST ground floor to roof search is over and the SECOND search begins on the 6th floor exclusively.
It’s uncertain to me how long after Fritz gets to the 6th floor that the MC rifle (or whatever rifle ) was photographed.
Then it’s ANOTHER 18 minutes AFTER this so called 1:22 Boone time stamp and subsequent photo taken of just a portion of a rifle That Lt.Day arrives to the 6th floor. (This is according to Tom Aleya.)
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just like you, Mr. Cakebread, to ask the right questions.
All the right questions in this case are looooong overdue. With good reason because no one dared to ask them save for more than a few heroic real-life genuine patriots who actually cared about our once free, open and democratic Republic. They quickly understood the difference between a well planned coup d'état by a bunch of lying chicken sh*t treasonous cowards and a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to frame an innocent party...brb
You can't get water hot enough to wash the stench off Oswald
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You can't get water hot enough to wash the stench off Oswald
How quaint!..... And I'm sure that you believe that Chappie, and you believe that because you've embraced the erroneous idea that black is white, and now your ego won't allow you to accept the fact that Lee was in the 1st floor lunchroom at 12:27 when he saw Jarman and Norman walk by.
But ..... It's YOU who is in "hot water". I doubt that you will ever be able to wash off the stigma of being a damned fool who accepted the utter nonsense presented LBJ's Warren Commission.
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Although I’m on the CT side of the spectrum, I suspect Oswald of being a nefarious character possibly having been involved in illegal activity thru association with Jack Ruby.
Then there’s the CIA/FBI informant possibility which makes Oswald a person willing to assume fake identity as a “Marxist” willing to endanger his fellow citizens to further investigation as “subversives” or as “ anti Castro extremists”.
Oswald’s USMC record is not particularly honorable imo, even if the excuse is that he was drafted by the CIA. The CIA has been the instrument of the worst sort of corrupt element that has caused much unnecessary death worldwide, so Oswald being a ( speculatively) willing participant in such organization is further indication of an unsavory character.
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Although I’m on the CT side of the spectrum, I suspect Oswald of being a nefarious character possibly having been involved in illegal activity thru association with Jack Ruby.
Then there’s the CIA/FBI informant possibility which makes Oswald a person willing to assume fake identity as a “Marxist” willing to endanger his fellow citizens to further investigation as “subversives” or as “ anti Castro extremists”.
Oswald’s USMC record is not particularly honorable imo, even if the excuse is that he was drafted by the CIA. The CIA has been the instrument of the worst sort of corrupt element that has caused much unnecessary death worldwide, so Oswald being a ( speculatively) willing participant in such organization is further indication of an unsavory character.
I don't believe that Lee Oswald was with the CIA.... Although the CIA certainly knew that Lee Oswald was working as a spy with one of the other US organizations. Since Lee was in the Marine Corps when he first started exhibiting signs that he was training to become an agent....( Learning to read, speak, and understand Russian ) he probably was with ONI.
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I don't believe that Lee Oswald was with the CIA.... Although the CIA certainly knew that Lee Oswald was working as a spy with one of the other US organizations. Since Lee was in the Marine Corps when he first started exhibiting signs that he was training to become an agent....( Learning to read, speak, and understand Russian ) he probably was with ONI.
A fair assessment, Mr. Cakebread, however sir you are aware that the Agency is adept at handling their own under the cover of otherwise military assignments?
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I follow the Walt theory given the proposition that Oswald may have been a CIA operative in the defector program that got Oswald into USSR .
However I’m still having trouble with the -pre planting of an MC rifle which introduces so much doubt that it doesn’t really seem to make sense to have planted it.
Is it reasonably certain that Boone 1:22 time stamp is verified?
I calculated that the average time spent by Tom Aleya’s search team searchi floor by floor (plus roof) was only about 2.5 minutes /floor which seems be not much of a thorough search imo, until then Fritz shows up 18 minutes after the FIRST ground floor to roof search is over and the SECOND search begins on the 6th floor exclusively.
It’s uncertain to me how long after Fritz gets to the 6th floor that the MC rifle (or whatever rifle ) was photographed.
Then it’s ANOTHER 18 minutes AFTER this so called 1:22 Boone time stamp and subsequent photo taken of just a portion of a rifle That Lt.Day arrives to the 6th floor. (This is according to Tom Aleya.)
An excellent round of questions there, Mr. Mason, I'm especially interested in any research construct that sheds light on Mr. Aleya's experience that fateful afternoon. If you have any specific timeline features to share on his initial entrance into the TSBD, his ascent upwards on the upper-floors and his eventual descent downwards, departure time, etc., please share your findings here. Also, to your knowledge sir, Do you have any idea when he captured the following footage? ---->
This recording is very telling (cannot reveal why) until you or another competent researcher shares when this capture was recorded. My reluctance to share why I'm interested in the timing of this recording is I do not wish to lead to an outcome amid speculation as much as get as accurate time-frame as possible in an honest manner. Again, the timing of this recording is very telling for more reasons than anyone would ever suspect initially.
Sidebar: non-related to the above, Does anyone else find it strange that the authorities would settle on combing the sixth-floor in search of a rifle as quickly as they did? it's not unreasonable to believe the assassin would have simply kept his weapon on himself to enhance his getaway amid his escape...but like everything else in this case there always seems to be a bit of predetermined staging around a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to Frame an innocent party. A staged sniper's nest, planted shell-casings, a planted rifle, etc...
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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A fair assessment, Mr. Cakebread, however sir you are aware that the Agency is adept at handling their own under the cover of otherwise military assignments?
There's little to be gained by trying to determine which organization Lee was working for. It's obvious that he was working for one of the US organizations. However, I don't believe that he became a paid confidential informer with the FBI until after the Walker incident.
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Why does Boones 1:22 time stamp preclude the possibility a post planted rifle?
The logic seems to be pointing to a post planted rifle (planted hastily) which would later have documentation added to implicate Oswald.
My theory is that an MC rifle was brought up to the 6th floor and placed inside of a pallet nearest the staircase because after all the searching NO rifle had been found. Fritz starts a 2nd search on the 6th floor and TELLS the searchers that there Is a rifle on this floor somewhere. How did Fritz know that?
According to Tom Aleya , 18 minutes after the rifle is supposedly found at 1:22 pm (where is the verification of Boones watch time?) , Lt Day arrives to the 6th floor.
General Walker had a collection of MC rifles acquired during his 1944 WW2 combat duty in Italy so any of those rifles could easily have had a fake paper trail created.
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An excellent round of questions there, Mr. Mason, I'm especially interested in any research construct that sheds light on Mr. Aleya's experience that fateful afternoon. If you have any specific timeline features to share on his initial entrance into the TSBD, his ascent upwards on the upper-floors and his eventual descent downwards, departure time, etc., please share your findings here. Also, to your knowledge sir, Do you have any idea when he captured the following footage? ---->
This recording is very telling (cannot reveal why) until you or another competent researcher shares when this capture was recorded. My reluctance to share why I'm interested in the timing of this recording is I do not wish to lead to an outcome amid speculation as much as get as accurate time-frame as possible in an honest manner. Again, the timing of this recording is very telling for more reasons than anyone would ever suspect initially.
Sidebar: non-related to the above, Does anyone else find it strange that the authorities would settle on combing the sixth-floor in search of a rifle as quickly as they did? it's not unreasonable to believe the assassin would have simply kept his weapon on himself to enhance his getaway amid his escape...but like everything else in this case there always seems to be a bit of predetermined staging around a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to Frame an innocent party. A staged sniper's nest, planted shell-casings, a planted rifle, etc...
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Sidebar: non-related to the above, Does anyone else find it strange that the authorities would settle on combing the sixth-floor in search of a rifle as quickly as they did? it's not unreasonable to believe the assassin would have simply kept his weapon on himself to enhance his getaway amid his escape...
Mr Ford, Are you aware that Captain Fritz refused to allow the searchers to look elsewhere for the rifle? It's been reported that when some of the search team wanted to leave the sixth fllor and look elswhere, Captain Fritz told them: quote;.... " No, Keep looking ....That rifle has to be here somewhere"
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Why does Boones 1:22 time stamp preclude the possibility a post planted rifle?
The logic seems to be pointing to a post planted rifle (planted hastily) which would later have documentation added to implicate Oswald.
My theory is that an MC rifle was brought up to the 6th floor and placed inside of a pallet nearest the staircase because after all the searching NO rifle had been found. Fritz starts a 2nd search on the 6th floor and TELLS the searchers that there Is a rifle on this floor somewhere. How did Fritz know that?
According to Tom Aleya , 18 minutes after the rifle is supposedly found at 1:22 pm (where is the verification of Boones watch time?) , Lt Day arrives to the 6th floor.
General Walker had a collection of MC rifles acquired during his 1944 WW2 combat duty in Italy so any of those rifles could easily have had a fake paper trail created.
General Walker had a collection of MC rifles acquired during his 1944 WW2 combat duty in Italy
WOW!... Can you verify this information?
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An excellent round of questions there, Mr. Mason, I'm especially interested in any research construct that sheds light on Mr. Aleya's experience that fateful afternoon. If you have any specific timeline features to share on his initial entrance into the TSBD, his ascent upwards on the upper-floors and his eventual descent downwards, departure time, etc., please share your findings here. Also, to your knowledge sir, Do you have any idea when he captured the following footage? ---->
This recording is very telling (cannot reveal why) until you or another competent researcher shares when this capture was recorded. My reluctance to share why I'm interested in the timing of this recording is I do not wish to lead to an outcome amid speculation as much as get as accurate time-frame as possible in an honest manner. Again, the timing of this recording is very telling for more reasons than anyone would ever suspect initially.
Sidebar: non-related to the above, Does anyone else find it strange that the authorities would settle on combing the sixth-floor in search of a rifle as quickly as they did? it's not unreasonable to believe the assassin would have simply kept his weapon on himself to enhance his getaway amid his escape...but like everything else in this case there always seems to be a bit of predetermined staging around a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to Frame an innocent party. A staged sniper's nest, planted shell-casings, a planted rifle, etc...
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
This recording is very telling (cannot reveal why) until you or another competent researcher shares when this capture was recorded. My reluctance to share why I'm interested in the timing of this recording is I do not wish to lead to an outcome amid speculation as much as get as accurate time-frame as possible in an honest manner. Again, the timing of this recording is very telling for more reasons than anyone would ever suspect initially.
Mr Ford, I would say that the film was made at the DPD headquarters late that afternoon ( At the time that Baker was told that he had encountered the assassin when he dashed through the TSBD with Roy Truly.)
But that's a guess which may be refuted by the presence of Roy Truly in the film. I don't know if Truly was at the DPD that afternoon....
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Why does Boones 1:22 time stamp preclude the possibility a post planted rifle?
The logic seems to be pointing to a post planted rifle (planted hastily) which would later have documentation added to implicate Oswald.
My theory is that an MC rifle was brought up to the 6th floor and placed inside of a pallet nearest the staircase because after all the searching NO rifle had been found. Fritz starts a 2nd search on the 6th floor and TELLS the searchers that there Is a rifle on this floor somewhere. How did Fritz know that?
According to Tom Aleya , 18 minutes after the rifle is supposedly found at 1:22 pm (where is the verification of Boones watch time?) , Lt Day arrives to the 6th floor.
General Walker had a collection of MC rifles acquired during his 1944 WW2 combat duty in Italy so any of those rifles could easily have had a fake paper trail created.
There's lil' doubt, Mr. Mason, that the rifle was planted. The mystery--at least for me--is just who planted it, Mr. Williams (Bonnie Ray); Mr. Dougherty (Jack) and/or Roy Truly ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
All three of these men--per their own admission--had access to and was up on the sixth floor at some point in time.
Appreciate your keen powers of discernment, Mr. Mason @ posing a legitimate question, quote,
Fritz starts a 2nd search on the 6th floor and TELLS the searchers that there Is a rifle on this floor somewhere. How did Fritz know that? A rather telling blunder by Fritz. No great surprise amid a predetermined hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to follow.
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Sidebar: non-related to the above, Does anyone else find it strange that the authorities would settle on combing the sixth-floor in search of a rifle as quickly as they did? it's not unreasonable to believe the assassin would have simply kept his weapon on himself to enhance his getaway amid his escape...
Mr Ford, Are you aware that Captain Fritz refused to allow the searchers to look elsewhere for the rifle? It's been reported that when some of the search team wanted to leave the sixth fllor and look elswhere, Captain Fritz told them: quote;.... " No, Keep looking ....That rifle has to be here somewhere"
No, I wasn't aware of this at all, Mr. Cakebread, nice catch! thanks for sharing this gem. Even further indication of a predetermined hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to deceive the public. Any idea if there's a way to research Fritz's quality of life and finances in the ensuing years?
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This recording is very telling (cannot reveal why) until you or another competent researcher shares when this capture was recorded. My reluctance to share why I'm interested in the timing of this recording is I do not wish to lead to an outcome amid speculation as much as get as accurate time-frame as possible in an honest manner. Again, the timing of this recording is very telling for more reasons than anyone would ever suspect initially.
Mr Ford, I would say that the film was made at the DPD headquarters late that afternoon ( At the time that Baker was told that he had encountered the assassin when he dashed through the TSBD with Roy Truly.)
But that's a guess which may be refuted by the presence of Roy Truly in the film. I don't know if Truly was at the DPD that afternoon....
Another fair & honest assessment there, Mr. Cakebread, especially noting the questionable likelihood that Roy Truly was at the DPD later that afternoon. Moreover, I believe one of the individuals in this recording is Mr. Campbell (Ochus Virgil as in then Vice-President of the Texas School Book Depository). A photo gallery I received from the late Sarah Stanton (RIP lady)'s granddaughter a few years back confirms it is Mr. Campbell, thus a much stronger likelihood Mr. Aleya's recording was in fact filmed inside the TSBD.
Again sir, the actual timing of this recording will shed significant light on what's true and fictitious in more than a few instances. The gravity of which will expose more than I care to share at the moment.
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No, I wasn't aware of this at all, Mr. Cakebread, nice catch! thanks for sharing this gem. Even further indication of a predetermined hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to deceive the public. Any idea if there's a way to research Fritz's quality of life and finances in the ensuing years?
I don't know much about Fritz. I believe his life revolved around the DPD. Somewhere I've read that he was a hermit who had an apartment just a few blocks from DPD headquarters, and even after retirement he spent a lot of his time at DPD headquarters.
Fritz was one of the "good ol boys" who rose to the rank of captain by being an ass kisser. In his testimony and writing he has revealed that his IQ was not very high ( But he didn't need to be smart because he was powerful and ruled his kingdom with an iron fist.)
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There's little to be gained by trying to determine which organization Lee was working for. It's obvious that he was working for one of the US organizations. However, I don't believe that he became a paid confidential informer with the FBI until after the Walker incident.
Though I have the highest regard for your exemplary research, Mr. Cakebread, we will simply have to respectfully disagree on pinning down the Agency's connection to the wrongly-accused, starting as early as his Agency's generated "defection". The Agency's fingerprints--if I can paraphrase the late senator from Connecticut serving on an Intelligence Committee--is all over him.
And then there's the Agency's outright deception by ordering one of their own--George Joannides--to serve as the Agency's liaison to Mr. Blakey's HSCA in the '70's. Rather than come clean in the interest of a genuine investigation into the demise of a duly elected representative of the People about his Agency role in !963, he hid this from Mr. Blakely's committee. Why?
IF the Agency had/have nothing to hide begs the question: Why? was Mr. Joannides less than forthcoming? Why do his Agency records remain classified even after all these years?
Back next week the Good Lord willing to share my original thoughts on the activities of the wrongly-accused on the TSBD entrance steps post-assassination. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Another fair & honest assessment there, Mr. Cakebread, especially noting the questionable likelihood that Roy Truly was at the DPD later that afternoon. Moreover, I believe one of the individuals in this recording is Mr. Campbell (Ochus Virgil as in then Vice-President of the Texas School Book Depository). A photo gallery I received from the late Sarah Stanton (RIP lady)'s granddaughter a few years back confirms it is Mr. Campbell, thus a much stronger likelihood Mr. Aleya's recording was in fact filmed inside the TSBD.
Again sir, the actual timing of this recording will shed significant light on what's true and fictitious in more than a few instances. The gravity of which will expose more than I care to share at the moment.
Thank you for providing info that may establish that the film was exposed at the TSBD .... The next question of course is: WHEN was it exposed? Do you believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of Lee Oswald's escape as imagined by the "investigators"?
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Thank you for providing info that may establish that the film was exposed at the TSBD .... The next question of course is: WHEN was it exposed? Do you believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of Lee Oswald's escape as imagined by the "investigators"?
Just like you to ask the right question(s), Mr. Cakebread @ WHEN was it exposed?
Rather than spin this video recording in a self-serving manner, I like to share content based upon facts, so I was hoping you, Mr. Mason (Zeon) and/or any other competent researcher could provide a definitive answer to your question.
In fairness to your 2nd question, No, I do not believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of the wrongly-accused's make believe escape amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. However, if one takes Mr. Campbell (Ochus') account into consideration it would mean either two scenarios in play (neither of which bodes well for the lying rooftop tandem and their exploits on that otherwise locked roof from the inside). Scripted liars lie...
“Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder.
” ― George Washington
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Heading into the Labor Day weekend, now nine months later, the LNs still are unable to provide a single credible eyewitness to substantiate the myth that Marrion Baker and Roy Truly were together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the cowardly ambush upon a duly elected representative of the People.
There's a reason for that. The LNs cannot produce One Witness to substantiate that scripted myth, because they weren't together at that time sharing the same space. We know two important details that derail that scripted lie (Mr. Piper's testimony and Mr. Shelley's as well) ---->
Mr. PIPER. Mr. Truly and some fellow---I really don't know who it was; like I say, it was some fellow that was with Mr. Truly.
Mr. BALL. Some fellow; how was he dressed?
Mr. PIPER. Oh, I don't know.
Mr. Piper, as would anyone else-- would easily recall a white motorcycle helmet and the looooong black boots of s motorcycle officer IF one was indeed w/Roy Truly. Now, there's this from Mr. Shelley's own testimony (some 4-5 minutes after Marrion Baker and Roy Truly should be on their phantom exploits up on the upper floors ---->
Mr. BILL. When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.
Perhaps a few LNs still clinging desperately to the exploits of the "magic" bullet may care to explain how Roy Truly can be in two places all at once? Upstairs on a phantom romp with Marrion Baker, yet still down on the first-floor to make a verbal exchange while engaging with Mr. Shelley...way too MUCH "magic" already in this sordid ordeal to Frame an innocent party.
LNs over 9 months time haven't and even now cannot provide One Witness to substantiate an otherwise scripted lie. There's a reason for that. As Mr. Murphy (Sean) would say, "They have nothing".
Nothing but a flimsy hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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Just like you to ask the right question(s), Mr. Cakebread @ WHEN was it exposed?
Rather than spin this video recording in a self-serving manner, I like to share content based upon facts, so I was hoping you, Mr. Mason (Zeon) and/or any other competent researcher could provide a definitive answer to your question.
In fairness to your 2nd question, No, I do not believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of the wrongly-accused's make believe escape amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. However, if one takes Mr. Campbell (Ochus') account into consideration it would mean either two scenarios in play (neither of which bodes well for the lying rooftop tandem and their exploits on that otherwise locked roof from the inside). Scripted liars lie...
“Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder.
” ― George Washington
No, I do not believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of the wrongly-accused's make believe escape amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. However, if one takes Mr. Campbell (Ochus') account into consideration it would mean either two scenarios in play (neither of which bodes well for the lying rooftop tandem and their exploits on that otherwise locked roof from the inside). Scripted liars lie...
I also don't believe that the film was taken at the time of the so called "re- enactment"...... But I wanted your opinion.
The wall in the background appears to be the wall outside of Truly's first floor office ..... So I believe the film was shot by Tom Alyea after Baker and Truly returned to the first floor after their mad dash up to the the door to the roof which should have told them that the shots had not been fired from the roof because the shooter could not have left the roof through that locked door....... Unless the shooter had fled and locked the door behind him as he fled.... in which case he could have been the 30 year old 165 pound man who was wearing a brown Jacket when Baker stopped him near the stairs.
Now after having presented that bit of crap.... I'll revert to my conviction that there were no shots fired from the TSBD that day....
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No, I do not believe it could have been taken during the so called "re-enactment" of the wrongly-accused's make believe escape amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. However, if one takes Mr. Campbell (Ochus') account into consideration it would mean either two scenarios in play (neither of which bodes well for the lying rooftop tandem and their exploits on that otherwise locked roof from the inside). Scripted liars lie...
I also don't believe that the film was taken at the time of the so called "re- enactment"...... But I wanted your opinion.
The wall in the background appears to be the wall outside of Truly's first floor office ..... So I believe the film was shot by Tom Alyea after Baker and Truly returned to the first floor after their mad dash up to the the door to the roof which should have told them that the shots had not been fired from the roof because the shooter could not have left the roof through that locked door....... Unless the shooter had fled and locked the door behind him as he fled.... in which case he could have been the 30 year old 165 pound man who was wearing a brown Jacket when Baker stopped him near the stairs.
Now after having presented that bit of crap.... I'll revert to my conviction that there were no shots fired from the TSBD that day....
A brilliant summation there, Mr. Cakebread, however with all due respect sir for your exemplary research, you are aware that there are witnesses on the record who saw the extension of a rifle barrel that afternoon before the shooting right ?
Are you suggesting someone was firing mere blanks from the TSBD?
Lastly, I'm pressed for time this morning so last comment today, to your knowledge IF a rifle was indeed fired from the southeast corner of the sixth floor, what is the likelihood that spent cartridges should have fallen much closer together than the images researchers have been privy to over the years, where one spent shell casing lands MUCH further away than the two "twins" for lack of a better word at the moment that landed much closer together?
Appreciate the insightful & informative exchange today.
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Heading into the Labor Day weekend, now nine months later, the LNs still are unable to provide a single credible eyewitness to substantiate the myth that Marrion Baker and Roy Truly were together at the base of the backstairs during the immediate aftermath of the cowardly ambush upon a duly elected representative of the People.
There's a reason for that. The LNs cannot produce One Witness to substantiate that scripted myth, because they weren't together at that time sharing the same space. We know two important details that derail that scripted lie (Mr. Piper's testimony and Mr. Shelley's as well) ---->
Mr. PIPER. Mr. Truly and some fellow---I really don't know who it was; like I say, it was some fellow that was with Mr. Truly.
Mr. BALL. Some fellow; how was he dressed?
Mr. PIPER. Oh, I don't know.
Mr. Piper, as would anyone else-- would easily recall a white motorcycle helmet and the looooong black boots of s motorcycle officer IF one was indeed w/Roy Truly. Now, there's this from Mr. Shelley's own testimony (some 4-5 minutes after Marrion Baker and Roy Truly should be on their phantom exploits up on the upper floors ---->
Mr. BILL. When you came into the shipping room did you see anybody?
Mr. SHELLEY. I saw Eddie Piper.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.
Perhaps a few LNs still clinging desperately to the exploits of the "magic" bullet may care to explain how Roy Truly can be in two places all at once? Upstairs on a phantom romp with Marrion Baker, yet still down on the first-floor to make a verbal exchange while engaging with Mr. Shelley...way too MUCH "magic" already in this sordid ordeal to Frame an innocent party.
LNs over 9 months time haven't and even now cannot provide One Witness to substantiate an otherwise scripted lie. There's a reason for that. As Mr. Murphy (Sean) would say, "They have nothing".
Nothing but a flimsy hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.[/i]
Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
THE POLICE started coming in pretty fast...... At about 12:40. Immediately after the shooting the police were searching the rail yard behind the picket fence. Then they were diverted to the TSBD and went there and that's when Shelley saw them coming in "pretty fast "
When did Baker leave the TSBD and go to Parkland?
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A brilliant summation there, Mr. Cakebread, however with all due respect sir for your exemplary research, you are aware that there are witnesses on the record who saw the extension of a rifle barrel that afternoon before the shooting right ?
Are you suggesting someone was firing mere blanks from the TSBD?
Lastly, I'm pressed for time this morning so last comment today, to your knowledge IF a rifle was indeed fired from the southeast corner of the sixth floor, what is the likelihood that spent cartridges should have fallen much closer together than the images researchers have been privy to over the years, where one spent shell casing lands MUCH further away than the two "twins" for lack of a better word at the moment that landed much closer together?
Appreciate the insightful & informative exchange today.
there are witnesses on the record who saw the extension of a rifle barrel that afternoon before the shooting right ?
Yes, Some witnesses said that they saw a rifle barrel ( or a "pipe like thing" ) sticking out of a window. Some of those folks said they saw the rifle in a man's hands before the shooting and some witnesses said they saw a rifle barrel protruding from a window during the shooting. NONE of the witnesses reported that they saw a rifle being fired at anytime.
Arnold Rowland and Howard Brennan are two of the most believable witnesses and I believe that both Rowland and Brennan saw the same man at approximately the same time .... I believe that Brennan's sighting preceded Rowland by a minute or two. When Brenan saw the man who was dressed like a deputy sheriff in khaki the man was scanning the crowd while using the rifle scope as a telescope.... And the man then stepped back away from the window and that's when Arnold Rowland saw him. Rowland thought that the man was a security guard because something about the man gave him that impression. ( Rowland may have seen the khaki clothing and the rifle with the high powered scope)
Brennan said that he saw the man aiming the rifle out of the window during the shooting but he didn't see the rifle actually being fired. A reporter in a convertible also said that he saw a rifle barrel sticking out of a sixth floor window of the TSBD. Amos Euins said that he saw a pipe like thing sticking out of a window... So the consensus has to be : There was a man aiming a rifle out of a TSBD window..... But that does not prove that the rifle was fired.
Now having said that there were four witnesses who said they saw a rifle at a window.... I'm compelled to question the sightings, because it doesn't seem possible that only four people would see the rifle barrel when there were hundreds of spectators on the scene.
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A brilliant summation there, Mr. Cakebread, however with all due respect sir for your exemplary research, you are aware that there are witnesses on the record who saw the extension of a rifle barrel that afternoon before the shooting right ?
Are you suggesting someone was firing mere blanks from the TSBD?
It was after the shooting. But even if the "projection" and the "pipe thing" were actually a rifle barrel, it doesn't just automatically follow that shots had been fired from it.
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It was after the shooting. But even if the "projection" and the "pipe thing" were actually a rifle barrel, it doesn't just automatically follow that shots had been fired from it.
How do you reconcile Amos Euins statement of seeing "a pipe like thing" with the description of a Mannlicher Carcano rifle?
How could anybody think that the wooden stocked carcano looked like a "pipe"?? If the carcano was hiden beneath the pallet as I believe .....then perhaps Euins was more observant than Brennan....and some one was using some other rifle that had a exposed metal barrel Like the one that Arnold Rowland described.
But now that I've written the above....I realize that Brennan must have been the witness who told the cops that the rifle looked like a 30-30 Winchester .... And the 30-30 Winchester does in fact have a exposed metal barrel that looks like a pipe.
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there are witnesses on the record who saw the extension of a rifle barrel that afternoon before the shooting right ?
Yes, Some witnesses said that they saw a rifle barrel ( or a "pipe like thing" ) sticking out of a window. Some of those folks said they saw the rifle in a man's hands before the shooting and some witnesses said they saw a rifle barrel protruding from a window during the shooting. NONE of the witnesses reported that they saw a rifle being fired at anytime.
Arnold Rowland and Howard Brennan are two of the most believable witnesses and I believe that both Rowland and Brennan saw the same man at approximately the same time .... I believe that Brennan's sighting preceded Rowland by a minute or two. When Brenan saw the man who was dressed like a deputy sheriff in khaki the man was scanning the crowd while using the rifle scope as a telescope.... And the man then stepped back away from the window and that's when Arnold Rowland saw him. Rowland thought that the man was a security guard because something about the man gave him that impression. ( Rowland may have seen the khaki clothing and the rifle with the high powered scope)
Brennan said that he saw the man aiming the rifle out of the window during the shooting but he didn't see the rifle actually being fired. A reporter in a convertible also said that he saw a rifle barrel sticking out of a sixth floor window of the TSBD. Amos Euins said that he saw a pipe like thing sticking out of a window... So the consensus has to be : There was a man aiming a rifle out of a TSBD window..... But that does not prove that the rifle was fired.
Now having said that there were four witnesses who said they saw a rifle at a window.... I'm compelled to question the sightings, because it doesn't seem possible that only four people would see the rifle barrel when there were hundreds of spectators on the scene.
Please read Mr. Worrell's WC testimony, Mr. Cakebread, as it confirms a rifle indeed was fired from the southeast corner of the sixth floor. Here's a brief snippet, courtesy of the New York Times ---->
The third eyewitness was James Richard Worrell Jr., 20, an unemployed laborer. He testified that he looked up at the sixth‐story window after hearing the first shot and saw the rifle aimed at Kennedy.
There was no doubt in Mr. Worrell's mind that the rifle was actually fired. He saw “a little flame and smoke” spit from the barrel on the second and third shots, but he couldn't see the rifleman.
Now, that said, I have never ruled out that the actions Mr. Worrell (James) witnessed meant actual live bullets were fired as much as to create a predetermined staging area to conform to the hastily contrived script the planners used to Frame the wrongly-accused. In my opinion--held since my initial foray into JFK assassination research way back in May, 2014--blanks were fired from that staging area to steer any legitimate investigation away from pursuing why Gunsmoke and the undeniable accompanying smell of gunpowder was emanating from in front of the presidential limousine, where the real chicken sh*t treasonous cowards fired from. Of course, back in those days when Mr. Mack (Gary) was present on this forum, he would flood my PM box with Hey Kid, you got it all wrong. You are wrong about This. You are wrong about That, etc. never quite knew what side he was on, the great myth or on the side of light, truth and justice in this matter.
Discouraged by his repeated bombardment I took a leave of absence from this forum, and to this day I am still encouraged by legitimate researchers like yourself, Mr. Iacoletti, a great many others, etc al, who are simply here to shed light, truth and justice in this case. Anything else is simply parroting back a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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How do you reconcile Amos Euins statement of seeing "a pipe like thing" with the description of a Mannlicher Carcano rifle?
How could anybody think that the wooden stocked carcano looked like a "pipe"?? If the carcano was hiden beneath the pallet as I believe .....then perhaps Euins was more observant than Brennan....and some one was using some other rifle that had a exposed metal barrel Like the one that Arnold Rowland described.
But now that I've written the above....I realize that Brennan must have been the witness who told the cops that the rifle looked like a 30-30 Winchester .... And the 30-30 Winchester does in fact have a exposed metal barrel that looks like a pipe.
Since writing this post... I've realized that Euins may have seen a silencer on the end of a gun barrel......
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Mr. BALL. Now, did the police come into the building?
Illr. SHELLEY. Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
Mr. BALL. Did you go with them any place?
Mr. SHELLEY. Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway.[/i]
Yes, sir ; they started coming in pretty fast
THE POLICE started coming in pretty fast...... At about 12:40. Immediately after the shooting the police were searching the rail yard behind the picket fence. Then they were diverted to the TSBD and went there and that's when Shelley saw them coming in "pretty fast "
When did Baker leave the TSBD and go to Parkland?
Before entertaining your last question posed in your response here, Mr. Cakebread, there's a couple of things to point out: (A) IF Baker and Roy nothing truly about him are indeed navigating the backstairs, fetching an elevator after reaching the 5th floor, and enjoying their make belief exploits up on an otherwise locked roof (from the inside) begs the question: Did the so-called magic-bullet bequeath Roy nothing truly about him enough magic to be in two places all at once? (his phantom experience 7 floors up on that otherwise locked roof, while simultaneously giving Mr. Shelley a verbal command 7 stories below? (B) lest we forget, when we combine both Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady's testimonies we generally arrive at a reentrance time back into the TSBD at 4-5 minutes after their initial railroad expedition. This timeline is important because Roy nothing truly about him is still downstairs on the first floor (review Mr. Piper's WC testimony, where he witnesses the building superintendent w/"someone" or "some fellow", rather than accompanied by an obviously clad white helmeted motorcycle officer in looooong black boots.
Of course, the lying rooftop tandem would come together later in this fictitious fairytale to Frame an innocent party by meshing both their individual experiences that fateful afternoon into one hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
"Half a truth is often a great lie." - Benjamin Franklin
Now, turning our attention to your question ---->
When did Baker leave the TSBD and go to Parkland?
I trust wholeheartedly that it wasn't when he said he did...but in fairness to him I will take the time to read over his WC testimony to evaluate his said timeline
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder." -- George Washington
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To reconcile the apparent contradiction between Rowland seeing a scope while Euins, Brennan, Couch and Jackson did not see a scope , the answer must be the Angle of observation difference between SE and SW windows and also the way the SW gunman was presenting the rifle “at the ready” position when observed by Rowland at 12:15.
Imo the reason Rowland could see a scope at all from a block away, was because the scope was CENTER mounted on top of the barrel as would be the case on the typical hunting 30.06 rifle OR a rifle like an FN-FAL military style rifle.
Other than that, Rowland, Euins, Brennan etc are describing a ratio of barrel length that’s quite noticeably farther beyond the stock than the 5” of an MC rifle.
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Saw the following post making the rounds over at the Education Forum ---->
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28136-prayerperson/
So, for clarification sake I believe Mr. Davidson made a simple mistake when accrediting me as the author of the information he is sharing...
Credit to Alan J. Ford (Duncan's Forum) for posting the "Original" in this collage some months ago.
rather than Alan Ford, who joined this forum sometime in my absence during my hiatus from Mr. Mack's shenanigans. No harm, no foul but for clarity sake just want to set the record straight.
For the record, I have believed since my initial foray into JFK Assassination research in May, 2014 and even now the following: (A) Prayer Man is a man; and, (B) he is none other than the wrongly-accused who was standing outside as the presidential limousine turned off Houston onto Elm. Nowhere near the sixth floor let alone firing a rifle. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
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To reconcile the apparent contradiction between Rowland seeing a scope while Euins, Brennan, Couch and Jackson did not see a scope , the answer must be the Angle of observation difference between SE and SW windows and also the way the SW gunman was presenting the rifle “at the ready” position when observed by Rowland at 12:15.
Imo the reason Rowland could see a scope at all from a block away, was because the scope was CENTER mounted on top of the barrel as would be the case on the typical hunting 30.06 rifle OR a rifle like an FN-FAL military style rifle.
Other than that, Rowland, Euins, Brennan etc are describing a ratio of barrel length that’s quite noticeably farther beyond the stock than the 5” of an MC rifle.
Yet another excellent summation there, Mr. Mason, especially noting Mr. Rowland's observations @ 12:15PM...keen discernment noting the obvious differences between what three actual eyewitnesses observed when compared to the planted rifle used amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure to frame an innocent party.
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When did Baker leave the TSBD and go to Parkland?
Another excellent question, Mr. Cakebread, let's take his WC testimony into account ---->
Mr. BELIN - From the time you went into the building how long did it take you to go up and make your searches and come on down until the time you left?
Mr. BAKER - I would say that I was in there approximately 15 minutes.
Mr. BELIN - And you left there right at the time that you left Mr. Truly on the first floor?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - In this time sequence you mentioned you were on the roof more than 5 minutes, that could be 25 or 30 or 10 or 15 or what?
Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway.
15 minutes doing what?
(A) He outright lied about his experience on an otherwise locked roof ---->
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy
Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 8 6071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in. I asks some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back to the building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs taking a quick look on each floor.
(B) Baker's same day affidavit has nothing to do with the invented hastily contrived phantom lunchroom encounter to frame the wrongly-accused.
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337201/m1/1/
His same day affidavit experience with the genuine individual he encounters is a whopping 34lbs heavier than the wrongly-accused on November 22, 1963. His same day affidavit reveals his encounter with someone other than the wrongly-accused was with an individual walking away from the stairs (nowhere near a lunchroom).
(C) Then he shoots himself in the foot yet again by testifying while he was supposedly on that otherwise locked rooftop (from the inside) he cross paths with Inspector Sawyer (who lest we forget in his testimony was only inside the TSBD from 12:34PM -- 12:37PM) Oops! here we have Baker pulling some fairytale magic akin to Roy nothing truly about him who shares in his testimony he accompanies Baker up on that otherwise locked roof (from the inside), but yet is still standing down on the 1st floor in a verbal exchange w/Mr/ Shelley, ordering him to keep an eye on the elevators. Magic bullets, key "eyewitnesses" magically being in two places all at once...amazing what a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure forces liars to do and say...
"Half a truth is often a great lie." - Benjamin Franklin
Amazing what some lying chicken sh*t treasonous cowards will do for thirty pieces of silver...
Back later this week the Good Lord willing to expose the lying rooftop tandem even further...
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2639.msg99535.html#msg99535
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder." -- George Washington
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Saw the following post making the rounds over at the Education Forum ---->
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28136-prayerperson/
So, for clarification sake I believe Mr. Davidson made a simple mistake when accrediting me as the author of the information he is sharing...
Credit to Alan J. Ford (Duncan's Forum) for posting the "Original" in this collage some months ago.
rather than Alan Ford, who joined this forum sometime in my absence during my hiatus from Mr. Mack's shenanigans. No harm, no foul but for clarity sake just want to set the record straight.
For the record, I have believed since my initial foray into JFK Assassination research in May, 2014 and even now the following: (A) Prayer Man is a man; and, (B) he is none other than the wrongly-accused who was standing outside as the presidential limousine turned off Houston onto Elm. Nowhere near the sixth floor let alone firing a rifle. The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
Alan,
My sincerest apology.
I never realized there were two of you with very similar names on this forum.
I will make the appropriate correction on the Education Forum.
Chris
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Alan,
My sincerest apology.
I never realized there were two of you with very similar names on this forum.
I will make the appropriate correction on the Education Forum.
Chris
Soooo indicative of the genuine class act you are, Mr. Davidson, no harm. no foul sir.
It's encouraging that brilliant minds like yours are on the right side of truth, light and justice in this case. Stay awesome!
True to your word and honour ---->
Edited 13 hours ago by Chris Davidson
Change Alan F. Ford to Alan Ford
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/28136-prayerperson/
Upon my return to this forum after a five year hiatus, I learned that I needed to insert my middle initial as there was already a username with a similar name. Turns out Mr. Ford is a sharp researcher of vast discernment, and anyone would be honoured to share his name. In fairness to everyone though, I believe I should do all I can to distinguish between his keen research methods and those of my own, rather than stand on his exemplary research as if it was my own. Fair is fair.
Onward!, Mr. Davidson, the JFK Research Community is fortunate to have skilled, top-shelf researchers like you.
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What reason for Oswald to go back into the TSBD entrance Lobby from his outside position at the PM spot?
Possible places WhereOswans may have left his jacket:
1.1st floor Domino room
2. 2nd floor lunchroom
3. 2nd floor storage room
4. 2nd floor conference room
5. 1st floor Front lobby storage room
6. Some place in the Annex building/loading dock.
7. 7th floor/office
1. Oswald probably would not have been comfortable leaving his jacket in the Domino room easily accessible to the other employees especially if Oswald also left his keys, wrist bracelet in ihe pockets of the jacket.
2. The 2nd floor lunchroom is doubtful even if Oswald had been wearing his jacket when he went to get his coke, This is due to Carolyn Arnold entering the lunchroom approx 12:15 and upon her leaving, Oswald probably left also also, not wishing some reprimand by Mrs Reid whom Carolyn might inform.
3. The 2nd floor storage room is immediately adjacent to and accessible by anyone using the east elevator stopping at the 2nd floor. So not much safer place than the Domino room.
4. The 2nd floor conference room is usually locked and it’s unknown if Oswald had a key or not. It would probably be an old limits place anyway to labor workers to be hanging a jacket there. This makes it a less problem place due Oswald to leave his jacket.
5. The Front Lonny storage room seems to be the probable place because it’s not off limits to Oswald, yet it’s a room which was probably Bit used very often by other labor employees and there’s a possibility Oswald had a key which he could lock that storage room. Even if the door was not locked, it was probably closed and a jacket could be easily hidden there.
6. This a place probably visited more often by employees so therefore a less proble place to leave a jacket. Things get moved around a lot more in this area.
7. A little bit too far removed from the ground floor to be a practical place due Oswahd to leave a Jacket since he might be generally working on the 1sr floor more often than being on the 6th floor.
Conclusion: The probable place Oswald may have left his jacket was the front lobby storage room. This the fire makes the front Lobby the most proble place for Oswald to have had an early encounter with Baker and Truly.
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A fair assessment there. Mr. Mason @ "...the front Lobby the most proble place for Oswald to have had an early encounter with Baker and Truly." Indeed.
Baker's same day affidavit exposes the outright lie about a phantom 2nd floor encounter inside the lunchroom ---->
https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337201/m1/1/
Major difference between his genuine encounter w/someone "walking away from the stairs" as oppose to the fictitious invention about a staged phantom encounter moved elsewhere well after the fact amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
Liars lie...
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder." -- George Washington
The wrongly-accused did not shoot anybody. Anybody.
*self-reminder: continue to read/review Mr. Alyea's experience that afternoon. Mr. Alyea was the first newsman on the scene with camera in tow. Moreover, gathering from the reading thus far places Mr. Alyea inside the building for a considerable amount of time, well after Captain Fritz's arrival time (1:12PM) up on the upper-floors, which now brings the following film recording into much better focus w/a more specific timeline in mind...
Liars lie...
"Half a truth is often a great lie." - Benjamin Franklin
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Mr. BALL - How long did you stay up on the sixth floor? After you found the location of the three cartridges?
Mr. MOONEY - Well, I stayed up there not over 15 or 20 minutes longer--after Captain Will Fritz and his officers came over there[/u]
"After approximately 18 minutes, they were joined by Captain Fritz, who had first gone to Parkland Hospital". -- Mr. Alyea (Tom) the very 1st newsman into the building and the only one to accompany the search team.
With the above respective statements in mind and combining the two, it's obvious that the only time Mr. Alyea could have captured the following footage of the lying rooftop tandem together...
was a few minutes after he rushed into the building. Otherwise Mr. Alyea remained upstairs until the planted rifle was found, especially documented well after Baker left the TSBD within a 15 minute interval (his words, not mine ----> Mr. BELIN - From the time you went into the building how long did it take you to go up and make your searches and come on down until the time you left?
Mr. BAKER - I would say that I was in there approximately 15 minutes),
There was a mad rush up the backstairs alright, but not by the lying rooftop tandem. That's just one more lie of many more fabrications to frame the wrongly-accused amid a hastily contrived script mired in the stench of horse manure.
9 months later, and little wonder why the LNs cannot provide even One Witness to substantiate Baker and Truly's fictitious fairytale. There's a reason for that. They cannot do it. No one saw the lying rooftop tandem at the base of the backstairs together at any time that afternoon.
Liars lie...
"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder." -- George Washington