Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2

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Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6176 on: June 04, 2023, 04:27:08 AM »
Trump insiders 'unnerved' and angry as the DOJ pores over lawyer's notes about Mar-a-Lago documents: NYT

Donald Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran's habit of dictating his notes into his phone has aides to the former president furious and "unnerved" now that the Department of Justice has the phone and has transcribed his musings, reports the New York Times.

On Saturday the Times reported that while Corcoran was working with the former president while searching for sensitive documents held at Mar-a-Lago, he used his phone to detail the conversations and the advice he was giving the president -- and what he said could be central to an indictment of the former president.

As the report notes, in March Federal Judge Beryl A. Howell "pierced the privilege that would have normally protected Mr. Corcoranís musings about his interactions with Mr. Trump. Those protections were set aside under what is known as the crime-fraud exception, a provision that allows prosecutors to work around attorney-client privilege if they have reason to believe that legal advice or legal services were used in furthering a crime."

As part of the judge's order, Corcoran turned over his phone which contained a "voice memo Mr. Corcoran made last year ó during a long car drive for a family event the morning after" he met with Trump over the disputed documents that are at the center of one of special counsel Jack Smith's investigations.

What Corcoran said has Trump insiders fearing the worst.

According to the Times, "Mr. Corcoranís notes, which have not been previously described in such detail, will likely play a central role as Mr. Smith and his team move toward concluding their investigation and turn to the question of whether to bring charges against Mr. Trump. They could also show up as evidence in a courtroom if a criminal case is ultimately filed and goes to trial," with the report adding, "The level of detail in the recording is said to have angered and unnerved close aides to Mr. Trump who are worried they contain not only direct quotes from sensitive conversations."

The report adds, "...according to a description of the recorded notes, Mr. Trump asked Mr. Corcoran if he had to comply with the subpoena. Mr. Corcoran told him that he did. That exchange could be useful to prosecutors as they collect evidence on whether Mr. Trump sought to obstruct the subpoena process and interfere with the governmentís broader efforts to retrieve all of the sensitive records that he took with him from the White House."

You can read more here:

Trump's lawyers will 'cut their losses' when indictments come: Guardian reporter

Appearing on MSNBC on Saturday morning, Guardian reporter Hugo Lowell predicted a massive reshuffling within Donald Trump's legal team if and when special counsel Jack Smith secures an indictment of the former president.

Speaking with host Katie Phang and co-panelist Joyce Vance, Lowell claimed the chaos among Trump's team of lawyers ó who have reportedly been bickering and fighting with each other over strategy ó has settled down for now but that can be expected to change if Smith files charges.

With Vance speculating when indictments may come down, host Phang asked Lowell about his reporting on the Trump lawyer turmoil.

Noting that Lowell has called theformer president's battling lawyers a "trainwreck," Phang asked, "The fact there's a level of disorganization and infighting in Trump's legal team, [is that] going to create more problems for Donald Trump?"

"I think, you know, it's certainly possible, right?" he replied. "We reported this week that there's been a level of distrust and interpersonal conflict, that we did not previously appreciate. And it has been going on since September and it has lasted all the way through and along the way, there's been a murder-suicide pact."

"Along the way there have been some lawyers withholding legal deliberations and kind of legal strategy, thinking from other co-counsel. because they were worried they might brief their sort of perceived rivals," he added. "This, I think, reached a head a few weeks ago when Tim Parlatore one of the lawyers on the legal team resigned."

Adding that it appears the lawyers are "on their best behavior" now, he continued, "I think if it does get an indictment, you should probably expect a reorganization of the legal team."

"We should be looking at whether the reorganization is to kind of cut their losses about their last team, and see if they can start a new one," he added.


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6176 on: June 04, 2023, 04:27:08 AM »

Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6177 on: June 04, 2023, 11:09:32 AM »
All of the news surfacing from Jack Smithís Donald Trump classified documents probe thatís surfaced lately has been weeks or months old. Thereís been a reason for that: the grand jury in the case hasnít met in weeks. Itís led to the logical conclusion that the case is all bit over, with nothing left but the indictment.

Now the grand jury is being called back into session this week, according to The Guardianís Hugo Lowell. No details are being provided about what the grand jury is specifically being called back for, but itís not difficult to parse. The case appears to have wrapped a couple weeks ago, Smith has spent the past two weeks finishing up all the necessary behind the scenes pre-indictment maneuvering, and now Smith is bringing back the grand jury in order to bring the indictment.

This means weíre on indictment watch this week. Because no one knows for certain what Jack Smithís timetable is, thereís no guarantee an indictment will come in any given timeframe. But it sure feels like this is indictment week. All signs now point to it, including the return of the grand jury. Get your popcorn ready!

Hugo Lowell's tweet is below:   

Hugo Lowell @hugolowell

New via NBC: The federal grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the Justice Departmentís investigation of Trumpís handling of classified documents is expected to meet again this coming week in Washington, per people familiar.

Kurt Eichenwald @kurteichenwald

As a flood of details of the Trump MaraLago case come out, Trump, commentators etc say Smith's team is leaking. As someone who has covered these kinds of cases many times, that is almost certainly not true. And the fact that this much is coming out is a bad sign for Trump as investigations near their close, there are scores of people who know what is going on. Every witness has a lawyer, and all the lawyers speak to each other to make sure that their clients have not made an error in their testimony to the grand jury.

Former Watergate prosecutor Jill Wine-Banks, famous for her lapel pins, wore a pin depicting a piece of toast. She then explicitly stated on the air that sheís wearing it because ďTrump is toast.Ē She was basing this on new reports that all along, Jack Smith has had a smoking gun recording of Trump discussing stolen classified documents.

Wine-Banks is right of course. Espionage indictments arenít something that you can just magically shake off Ė even temporarily. Theyíre a far cry from the financial felonies Trump was recently indicted on in New York. When it comes to these espionage charges, Trump will be lucky if he even gets out on bail while awaiting trial. And yes, heís going to prison.

Earlier this week it was reported that DOJ Special Counsel Jack Smith has partially built his criminal case against Donald Trump based on a recording of Trump discussing a classified document heíd stolen. Now it turns out Smith also has recordings of a different kind.

Jack Smith has long been in possession of ďnotesĒ taken by Trump attorney Evan Corcoran. These are the notes that the courts handed to Smith while ordering that Corcoran testify against Trump to the grand jury. These notes are crucial because they provide corroboration for Corcoranís testimony. The notes prove that the version of events that Corcoran is now giving in his testimony is the same version of events that Corcoran witnessed in real time, and not merely something that heís made up or altered after the fact.

Hereís the kicker. These ďnotesĒ are actually recorded notes that Corcoran made while he was representing Trump in the classified documents probe, per new reporting from the New York Times. This means that Jack Smith isnít merely in possession of a few Corcoran scribbles; he has Corcoran on tape documenting everything that he witnessed Trump saying and doing at the time.

Again, these notes are all about allowing the jury (for now the grand jury bringing the indictment, and eventually the trial jury bringing the conviction) to feel confident in believing the accuracy of the testimony that Evan Corcoran is giving against Donald Trump. Under the law, testimony is considered more reliable if the witness took real-time notes. And in this instance Jack Smith has been able to play entire recordings of Corcoran to the grand jury that prove he hasnít changed his story. Smith will get to play those recordings again when Corcoran inevitably testifies in Trumpís criminal trial.

There are smoking guns and then there are SMOKING GUNS. Where does this recording of Donald Trump discussing stolen classified documents rank? Former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner says itís the ballgame because of incriminating it is:

Former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner about the Trump tape in the classified documents case:

ďThis is evidentiary manna from heaven for federal prosecutors because what he has done is heís put himself right smack in the middle of a potential espionage charge, a crime under Chapter 37 of Title 18. That is the Espionage Act.

It becomes pretty clear that he mishandled national defense information, which is a criminal charge under the Espionage Act. And looks like the feds have an audio recording of him doing so.Ē

So, you have top notch former federal prosecutors saying that Trump is finished and that means a lot. This upcoming DOJ indictment is pretty much going the same way as it happened in Manhattan with the grand jury meeting for second time before the indictment is handed down.

Here is the NBC exclusive article that was referenced by Hugo Lowell:

Grand jury in Trump classified documents case expected to meet this coming week after hiatus

A grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the case against former President Donald Trump is expected to meet this coming week in Washington after a lull.

The federal grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the Justice Departmentís investigation of former President Donald Trumpís handling of classified documents is expected to meet again this coming week in Washington, according to multiple people familiar with the investigation.

Prosecutors working for Special Counsel Jack Smith have been presenting the grand jury with evidence and witness testimony for months, but activity appeared to have slowed in recent weeks based on observations at the courthouse and sources.

Itís unclear whether prosecutors are prepared to seek an indictment at this point. The Justice Department would not comment on the status of the investigation.

Based on reporting from NBC News and other outlets, prosecutors face two central legal questions: 1) Did Trump wrongfully retain classified documents after he left the White House? 2) Did he later obstruct the governmentís efforts to retrieve them?

If Smith decides to indict Trump, it would be the first time a former president has been charged with a federal crime. Though Trump has already been charged in New York with state crimes related to hush money payments, the cases differ dramatically.

Trump maintains that he has broken no laws and continues to lambast Smith and the Justice Department, dismissing the investigation as a politically motivated smear campaign. Hereís what we know and what we donít know, and what to watch for as this unprecedented legal case unfolds.

What are the facts?

In June 2022, federal agents traveled to the former presidentís home in Florida to retrieve documents from his time in the White House, at least some of which they believed to be classified. Trumpís attorneys turned over 38 classified materials to authorities, and certified in writing that theyíd done a diligent search.

After visiting Mar-a-Lago and obtained evidence that additional classified documents had not been returned, Justice Department officials obtained a search warrant from a judge and FBI agents searched Mar-a-Lago in August 2022. In total, the DOJ recovered more than 300 documents with classified markings.

Trumpís attorneys previewed their defense case in a letter to Congress this year, writing that the documents ended up in Florida because White House staff had "simply swept all documents from the Presidentís desk and other areas into boxes." But itís unclear whether Smithís probe has unearthed evidence to the contrary.

What crimes could Trump be charged with?

Clues about what precise crime or crimes Smith has been investigating can be found in court filings, including the search warrant and an accompanying affidavit submitted by the DOJ. There are two basic categories: 1) crimes about the handling of classified documents, and 2) crimes about obstructing investigators from retrieving those materials.

Prosecutors cited the Espionage Act, which conjures up an image of someone acting as a spy for a foreign country. But the statute, enacted after World War I, is broader. It criminalizes anyone with "unauthorized possession" of "national defense" material who "willfully" retains it. A string of court decisions has concluded that even if a document isnít technically "classified," someone can be charged under the law, so long as the information is "closely held" and the information would be useful to US adversaries.

Justice Department attorneys also raised the prospect of an obstruction-related crime in court filings. But that law only applies if prosecutors can show that Trumpís intent was to "impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation." If Trump is charged with obstruction, it will be important to see what specific evidence Smithís team has gathered about the former President's intent.

Prosecutors also donít have to limit their case to the crimes explicitly outlined in the search warrant. Recent reporting from the Washington Post about Trump "sometimes" showing classified documents to others raises the question of whether he could be charged under an entirely different statute, "disclosure of classified information," which prohibits revealing certain classified material to anyone not authorized to receive it.

What is Trumpís most likely defense?

Since the raid, Trump has claimed that he had the power to declassify anything he wants, that he had a "standing order" to declassify documents, and that he could declassify materials simply by "thinking about it."

While thereís never been a case like this before ó no former President has made such claims or been accused of such conduct ó most national security lawyers say Trumpís argument is legally unpersuasive.

His broad power to declassify materials ended at noon on Jan. 20, 2021, once he was no longer president. But assume, for the sake of argument, that Trump declassified information in his mind as he flew on the plane from Washington to Florida. Attorney Bradley Moss says he would have still needed to effectuate that decision in some meaningful way.

"A verbal command doesnít do it. A tweet doesnít do it. There has to be follow-up documentation through the agencies making clear what is being declassified," Moss told NBC News. "If not, anyone who saw it would still have to treat it as classified.Ē But, Moss cautioned, thereís no precedent for anything precisely like this case.

Many have pointed to the fact that Smith could avoid a battle about whether the documents were declassified by charging under the law regarding "national defense" material, but Trump would still likely argue he held onto materials he believed he had the right to possess. "His best defense is he didnít realize they were classified documents because he didnít pack them up," Moss added.

On an obstruction charge, Trump could argue that he relied on the advice of others, believed his team was complying with demands to return the documents, or others like his valet Walt Nauta, who moved the boxes, went rogue.

Where are Trumpís legal vulnerabilities?

Claims of Trumpís ignorance about how the documents got to Mar-a-Lago are undercut by the fact that he held onto them, even after the government repeatedly asked for them back, says Mary McCord, the former Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the DOJ and an NBC News/MSNBC contributor.

"He had received a request and then a subpoena," McCord said. "If the Archives said we need the documents back and he gave everything back right away, we wouldnít be talking about criminal culpability."

But thatís not all. Recent news, first reported by CNN, of Trump talking on tape about a classified document he kept after leaving office and wishing that he had declassified it also hurts his case in significant ways. "It kind of locks him in," McCord added. "It shows he actually knows he canít show documents to people who arenít authorized."

The recording could also be key to rebutting any defense that Trump might raise about having previously declassified everything he took after he left office.

Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6178 on: June 04, 2023, 09:40:08 PM »
Remember, Merrick Garland already declined Trump teamís request for a meeting.

If a meeting is happening, it would be Smith informing them that Trump is being indicted.

BUT Smith wouldnít leak such a thing, so this is probably coming from Trumpís lawyers, making it unreliable.

Not questioning the reporterís credibility. Just pointing out that if this came from Trumpís team, itís as unreliable as anything else that comes from Trumpís team.

If this is coming from Smith, then indictment is imminent.

But what are the odds this is coming from Smith?

One guess would be that with the grand jury reportedly back in session this week, Trumpís lawyers know theyíre out of time. So theyíre leaking that a meeting is taking place, hoping to convince Trump that theyíre ďdoing somethingĒ to try to save him.

Could be an imaginary meeting. Could be the ďyour client is being indictedĒ meeting.

Itís certainly not going to be some meeting where Trumpís lawyers get a chance to magically save him with a brilliant last minute made for television argument. Thatís not a real thing.

But either way, Trumpís lawyers know they canít stop him from being indicted or convicted. All they can do is try to convince Trump that theyíre ďdoing somethingĒ so he wonít get frustrated and fire them. This feels like yet another instance of that.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6178 on: June 04, 2023, 09:40:08 PM »

Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6179 on: June 04, 2023, 09:54:00 PM »
Glenn Kirschner @glennkirschner2

Given what we know about the status of Special Counsel Jack Smithís criminal investigation of Donald Trumpís classified documents crimes, hereís why weíd be well-advised to now be on indictment watch:

"We should be on indictment watch.Ē @glennkirschner2 speaks to @jrpsaki about why the grand jury reconvening this week in the Trump classified docs case could signal that charges are imminent.


'Fasten your seat belts': Indictment rumors swirl amid report that Jack Smithís grand jury is reconvening

Late Saturday night, NBC News dropped a potential bombshell when it reported that the federal grand jury that has been examining evidence in the United States Department of Justice special counsel Jack Smith's investigation into former President Donald Trump's mishandling of classified documents will reconvene this upcoming week.

"Prosecutors face two central legal questions: 1) Did Trump wrongfully retain classified documents after he left the White House? 2) Did he later obstruct the governmentís efforts to retrieve them?" NBC noted. "If Smith decides to indict Trump, it would be the first time a former president has been charged with a federal crime. Though Trump has already been charged in New York with state crimes related to hush money payments, the cases differ dramatically."

Although NBC stressed that "it's unclear whether prosecutors are prepared to seek an indictment at this point," rumors nonetheless swirled amongst legal experts following the publication of NBC's story.

Ex-Deputy Attorney General Harry Litman tweeted that "the obvious inference-not the only one but the most obviousó is they're reconvening to vote out an indictment. Fasten your seat belts."

Conservative Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin responded that "the special counsel's recommendation has been made" and that Attorney General Merrick Garland "has decided to follow it."

Watchdog Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) wrote that "Trump's first federal indictment could be just days away."

Law professor and author Jennifer Taub quipped, "I love it, especially later in summer," referring to possible charges filed against Trump by Smith.

Veteran Allison Gill stated that "this could be a number of things including: 1. He's ready to ask for indictments 2. He's got a new cooperating witness."

Former White House Ethics Czar Norm Eisen said that "reports that the Trump classified document grand jury is meeting again shortly, what can we expect? Charges! (If not this week, soon)."

Ex-federal prosecutor and legal analyst Renato Mariotti, however, cautioned that the update "doesnít tell us much about the timing of a potential indictment. The grand jury could be considering a proposed indictment, but prosecutors could just be presenting evidence to the grand jury."

Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6180 on: Today at 03:10:24 AM »
'Very unstable' Trump 'did not have the grasp to understand' national security threats: former admin official

Reacting to a report that Donald Trump was sharing highly sensitive government documents with visitors at his Bedminster resort, a former national security adviser to ex-vice president Mike Pence said she was very concerned but not overly surprised.

Appearing on MSNBNC with host Alex Witt, Olivia Troye pointed out that in her dealings with the former president who is now facing possible Espionage Act charges, he was very cavalier with sensitive information.

Reflecting on the new revelations that could bolster special counsel Jack Smith's federal investigation of Trump, Troye stated there were always concerns about the former president.

"I think Trump is seriously a very unstable and unfit leader," she told the MSNBC host. "He was very trivial when it came to matters of national security, and he did not have the grasp to understand the gravity of certain situations; the strategic understanding of what it meant internationally and regionally when some of these decisions were being discussed, and potentially being made."

"I'll say this, my own direct boss, Pence's national security advisor, General [Keith] Kellogg, played a significant role at times when talking Trump out of things when it comes to Iran," she added. "So when this reporting surfaced, I just said to myself, you know, colleagues of mine and I have been talking to each other about this when this classified doc situation surfaced. We said, 'What do you think it is?' And this was actually one of our bets, was it was related to possibly Iran because of his fixation with this whole scenario."



Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6181 on: Today at 09:24:33 AM »
Donnie is now calling his cult "Magadonians". He doesn't refer to them as Americans but instead uses a fake name like "Magadonians". Donnie has clearly gone senile if he thinks this fake stunt will bring back the cult members who defected to DeSantis and other right wing candidates. Next we will see "Magadonian" merchandise for the suckers that are still left in his cult. Donnie is a just a pathetic grifter who uses his cult for suckers. A real billionaire would never have to scam money from his own base.       

Donnie is still in love with murderous dictator Kim Jung Un as he sends his "congratulations". Both those on the left and the right ripped Donnie for his love for Kim Jung Un and dictators.

GOP candidates criticize Trump for praising Kim Jong Un

Candidates challenging Trump for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination swiped at him for congratulating North Korean leader Kim Jong Un on Truth Social

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6181 on: Today at 09:24:33 AM »

Online Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #6182 on: Today at 09:39:29 AM »
Trump's own voice on the documents tape will be 'devastating' in a courtroom: legal analyst

Legal analyst Danny Cevallos walked through the possible charges that Donald Trump could face after a recording of him surfaced last week.

The discussion began with Julia Ainsley of the NBC News Investigative Unit saying, "An indictment, at this point, would set them up well to be able to end a trial before the 2024 election, at least give that 60 to 90-day buffer. You also hear about that the Justice Department takes into account, what they don't want to be interfering in an election. They could see this timeline as being very conducive to trying to wrap up this business before the election."

The questions before the grand jury are whether Trump wrongfully retained classified documents and did he later obstruct the government in trying to get them back.

"Question number one, and to some degree, question or two, really depends on what federal criminal statute you're looking at," explained Cevallos. And there are some that don't even really require classification or non-classification. It isn't a fundamental issue as to whether there is a crime. One of these is the Espionage Act."

He explained that Ainsley's article discussed the specifics of whether or not a document is classified and the level of potential harm it could cause. Those things determine whether it would fall under the Espionage Act.

"So, those two questions that you ask are the key ones," said Cevallos. "Were they wrongfully detained, and afterward, when there is notice that, hey, these are not yours. You must return them, was there obstruction? So, really, you have a couple of different statutes involved. But [there are] two really different fundamental questions: the first one could be explained away by mistake. It could be excusable. The problem with the second one ó"

Host Yasmin Vossoughian cut him off to say that Donald Trump has said over and over that he took them because "they are mine."

"How much of that is gonna come back to bite him? Secondly, when you look at the Washington Post reporting, 'dress rehearsals,' documents removed, the day before the FBI agent showed up at Mar-a-Lago," she said, later noting it says, "obstruction" to her.

"Right, you have a number of good arguments there," Cevallos said. "The defense is, if you look at Trump's defenses, they have holes in them as well. First, he signaled at least this whole, I can classify anything defense. It isn't very powerful. When he says, he can do it by thinking about it."

Vossoughian said it doesn't pass the smell test.

Cevallos cited James Comey, who called the tapes a horrible development for Trump, "I once said, Lordy I hope there are tapes."

"I can tell you, he is right, they're devastating," Cevallos continued. "The problem is exactly that. You may have tapes that are made by someone who is a lying liar. It doesn't matter. If they recorded it, it doesn't matter if they're criminal, doesn't matter if they have credibility issues. If they authenticated it, they get on the stand and say, 'I recorded this,' that is so-and-so's voice, and the jury can hear the voice. In this case, we really need to authenticate Donald Trump's voice. Who doesn't know that voice? He's not an unknown quantity. You press play, and it doesn't matter who your witness is, and how unreliable they are. It is the tape, it is the person's own voice that will bury them. It happens all the time. Increasingly so now that prosecutors and FBI have sworn smaller recording devices. White color cases are routinely made with tapes, and I can't tell you how powerful they are and how devastating they are as a defense attorney."

He also said he doesn't like to predict a timeline for indictments but said: "It could be right around the corner."



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