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Author Topic: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?  (Read 11044 times)

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »
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Was Nixon starting a smear campaign against JFK & LBJ by saying that JFK was going to drop LBJ from the ticket therefore throwing the state of Texas up for grabs. What happened in Dallas on 11-22-1963 put a Texan in the White House in the BIG Chair and that seems to be the only way that LBJ was going to be President. Coincidence , It doesn't seem like it .

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2018, 03:22:48 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 06:27:28 AM »


If JFK was planning on dropping Johnson, why was he riding in motorcades in Texas? He barely won Texas in 1960 with Johnson on the ticket. If he drops Johnson, he will lose Texas in 1964 (unless there is a landslide election).




Doubtful.  Texas was completely Democrat controlled at the time.



In 1960, in Texas, the Democrats got 50.52 % of the vote to the Republican?s 48.52 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to JFK.

In 1964, in a landslide election, Democrats got 63.32 % of the vote to the Republican?s 36.49 % of the vote, giving the election to Johnson. The large margin of victory was due to the public?s concern over Goldwater getting us into war.

In 1968, in Texas, the Democrats got 41.14 % of the vote to the Republican?s 39.97 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to Humphrey. Many voted for Wallace.

While up through the 1950?s, Texas was a solidly Democratic state, as was the rest of the South. By the 1960?s, the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights started to erode this support. By the 1960?s, Texas could easily go either way. Hence the need for a Texan Vice-Presidential candidate. Or, if a Texas needs to be removed from the ticket, there is no use in campaigning in Texas, because Texas will be lost in 1964.

Having Johnson on the ticket in 1960 caused many Texan?s to vote for Kennedy. They did not like the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights. But they can overcome this concern if it means they can vote for a Texan, even as only a Vice President.


The fact that JFK has started campaigning in 1963 means that he is not anticipating a landslide election, hence, Texas can go either way. The fact that he is campaigning in Texas means that he is not planning on removing Johnson from the ticket. Because if he was planning on doing that, he is wasting his time in Texas and needs to spend the time in some other important state that can go either way.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 04:28:05 PM »
In 1960, in Texas, the Democrats got 50.52 % of the vote to the Republican?s 48.52 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to JFK.

Nixon was a sitting vice-president.  JFK was a relative unknown.

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In 1964, in a landslide election, Democrats got 63.32 % of the vote to the Republican?s 36.49 % of the vote, giving the election to Johnson. The large margin of victory was due to the public?s concern over Goldwater getting us into war.

You don't think the same would have been the case if JFK had lived?

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In 1968, in Texas, the Democrats got 41.14 % of the vote to the Republican?s 39.97 % of the vote, narrowly giving the state to Humphrey. Many voted for Wallace.

Exactly.  Wallace got the Southern Democrat vote.

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Having Johnson on the ticket in 1960 caused many Texan?s to vote for Kennedy. They did not like the Democratic party?s support for Civil Rights. But they can overcome this concern if it means they can vote for a Texan, even as only a Vice President.

Civil rights wasn't much of a thing yet in 1960.

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 04:28:05 PM »


Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 06:18:44 PM »
Robert Caro makes a decent case that LBJ might have been dropped from the ticket.  He is the foremost historian on LBJ so that carries some weight.  But it makes absolutely no difference in regards to the assassination since LBJ had nothing to do with it. 

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »
Why didn't LBJ ride in the same limo as JFK instead of back in the pack ?

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 08:32:03 PM »


Robert Caro makes a decent case that LBJ might have been dropped from the ticket.  He is the foremost historian on LBJ so that carries some weight.  But it makes absolutely no difference in regards to the assassination since LBJ had nothing to do with it.


Questions:

Does Robert Caro explain why Kennedy is campaigning in Texas in November in 1963 while he is planning to undo this work by dropping Johnson from the ticket?

Does Robert Caro even address this issue?

Does Robert Caro explicitly state that as of November 1963, JFK was still planning on dropping LBJ?




Regardless of how eminent a historian Robert Caro is, I can?t buy his arguments if he does not address this issue.



If JFK was considering dropping LBJ from the ticket, he must have decided not to by the time of the November 1963 trip to Texas.


Presidential candidates campaign in states that are important, that can go either way. They like to campaign in larger states, but what is even more important, they chose states that can go either way. That is why candidates largely avoid campaigning in California or Texas today, because, in all but a landslide election, California will vote Democratic and Texas Republican.

Candidates who campaign in states don?t do stuff that will alienate that state. A candidate won?t campaign in Texas if he is planning on dropping a Texan as his running mate. A candidate won?t campaign in Texas if he is planning, let?s say, not installing the NASA headquarters in Texas but in some other state. If either of these actions are necessary, he needs to write off Texas and campaign in a different state that may go either way.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 09:33:53 PM »
I think you're making a mistake in assuming that Texas loved LBJ -- especially Dallas.

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 09:33:53 PM »


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Was JFK going to drop LBJ from the 64 Ticket ?
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2018, 11:18:34 PM »
How come when LBJ asked Judge Sarah T. Hughes to administer the oath of office on Air Force One, he happened to have a copy of it in his pocket? Imagine that.