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Author Topic: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?  (Read 48859 times)

Online Dan O'meara

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #120 on: February 16, 2021, 04:32:37 AM »
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:D

Your evident discomfort over answering a simple question is extremely entertaining, Mr Nessan. So............. I'm going to ask it again:

Do you believe that Mr Rowland claimed, while giving his affidavit statement, that he and his wife arrived in downtown Dallas at approximately 12:10 PM?

Alan,
will you stop with "death by a thousand tantalising questions" and just say what's on your mind.

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #120 on: February 16, 2021, 04:32:37 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #121 on: February 16, 2021, 05:00:19 AM »
:D

Your evident discomfort over answering a simple question is extremely entertaining, Mr Nessan. So............. I'm going to ask it again:

Do you believe that Mr Rowland claimed, while giving his affidavit statement, that he and his wife arrived in downtown Dallas at approximately 12:10 PM?

What discomfort? The affidavit states the exact same thing as their WC testimony. They are standing at position "V"at 12:10. What do you think they are stating? Do you not believe them and think they are lying about standing on the street at 12:10? They say the went to Dealey Plaza and positioned themselves at 12:10.

A Rowland: "At approximately 12:10 PM today, my wife Barbara and I arrived in downtown Dallas and took position to see the President's motorcade."

A Rowland WC: 
SPECTER - Where were you standing at the time the President's motorcade passed by you?
Mr. ROWLAND - At that position. (Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - The position you have marked with a "V," inverted "V."...........

....Mr. ROWLAND - About 10 after 12.
Mr. SPECTER - How long did you stay at position "A"?
Mr. ROWLAND - Momentarily, just long enough to look, maybe a minute....

...........Mr. ROWLAND - Stayed there momentarily, less than a minute. There was quite a crowd there and we went back to where we were, our original position.
Mr. SPECTER - To position "V"?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.

In the affidavit you think they should have gone into a great but useless detail about how they went to Dealey Plaza wandered around and ended up where they started? This is the bizarre point you think is worth discussing?



Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2021, 06:10:28 AM »
Just for reference, here's Jarman/Norman/Williams standing in from of the 5th floor corner window from which they watched the motorcade go by. Notice how low the lower half is. that's the only part of the window that opens. It appears to be little more than 4' from the floor.



I plugged this into some basic trigonometry using the following numbers:

Distance from Rowland to the SW column of windows in the TSBD: 280' (gained from Google Maps and the Rowland's descriptions of their location)
Height of open window: 66' (ref: Canning/HSCA, who put 6th floor sill height at 63' AGL)
Height of alleged rifleman (ranging from 5'-0" to 6'-2", which would include every sniper not in either the Lollipop Guild Special Forces or the dreaded NBA Suicide Squad.
Apparent gap between top of "rifleman" head to top of window opening (30" and 36" per A. Rowland WC testimony)

Given these, the closest the rifleman can be to the window is 13.4'....and that's for a 5'-0" tall guy with a 30" apparent gap between the top of his head and the bottom of the window sash. If the "rifleman" is 6'-2" with a 36" apparent gap between his head and the sash, then he would be standing 20'-6" inside the building.

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2021, 06:10:28 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #123 on: February 16, 2021, 07:04:45 AM »
Rowland is trying to estimate how far in the building the man is stood, which is quite a tricky thing to estimate as he states himself.
His early estimation is 12-15ft but on reflection he changes this to 3-5ft. It is this single detail that is leapt upon to try to undermine his testimony. Otherwise he is perfectly consistent with what he tells his wife at the time and the subsequent statements he makes concerning the description of the man with the rifle. He gives a detailed description of the man and to argue that he couldn't have seen the man if he was stood 15ft inside the building doesn't mean he was describing a man he couldn't see - it means his estimation of how far the man was stood away from the window is wrong.
His wife confirms the description he gave on the day and his incorrect estimate of how far the man was stood in the building.

You're still misunderstanding Rowland's response to that question. He wasn't saying there was three feet of space above the head of the man with the rifle, he is estimating that his head is three feet away from the window. Consistent with his revised estimation of the man being stood 3-5ft inside the building.
He is not saying he could see a 3ft space vertically above the head of the man!

If the arguments you are trying to make were taken at face value, Rowland would be describing a man whose head was below his waist.
Apart from a revised estimation of how far the man with the rifle was stood in the building, Rowland's description of him is consistent and confirmed by the testimony of his wife who confirms he made the same description before the motorcade had even arrived!

It does not matter what Arnold tells his wife. His whole testimony on many different subjects was shown to be false.  It was a BS story to her and then he tried to tell the same BS story to Specter and the WC  and his description of the person in the window is not possible with a window opening of 2.5 feet and the window installed 14" above the floor and Specter knew it.

He is not estimating anything but the distance above the persons head as seen through the open window. Nothing about his description is possible given the window opening being 14" from the floor.

Mr. SPECTER - What is your best estimate of the space between the top of his head and the open window at the perspective you were observing?
Mr. ROWLAND - Two and a half, three feet, something on that--that is something very hard to ascertain. That would just be an estimation on my part.

"If the arguments you are trying to make were taken at face value, Rowland would be describing a man whose head was below his waist."

That is exactly the point.

Specter knew from the beginning that Rowland had no idea about the install of the windows placing them 14" off the floor. He asked him early in the interview if he had been in the building.


Mr. SPECTER - Were you familiar with that building prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes; I have been in there on occasion.
Mr. SPECTER - You have been in the building?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes, to purchase books.
Mr. SPECTER - When were you in the building most recently prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. ROWLAND - Within the first week of November. This was to buy a physics notebook.
Mr. SPECTER - What part of the building were you in at that time?
Mr. ROWLAND - Just inside the door of the main lobby.
Mr. SPECTER - On the first floor?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - Had you ever had occasion at any time to be on any floor other than the first floor?
Mr. ROWLAND - No.


In the end it does not matter about Rowland's made up story. It ultimately has no impact on the understanding of the asassination. It turns out there really was a sniper on the 6th floor but Arnold never saw him.


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #124 on: February 16, 2021, 11:42:59 AM »
What discomfort? The affidavit states the exact same thing as their WC testimony.

 :D

Incorrect!

Quote
They are standing at position "V"at 12:10. What do you think they are stating? Do you not believe them and think they are lying about standing on the street at 12:10? They say the went to Dealey Plaza and positioned themselves at 12:10.

A Rowland: "At approximately 12:10 PM today, my wife Barbara and I arrived in downtown Dallas and took position to see the President's motorcade."

Do you believe that Mr Rowland, while giving his affidavit statement, timestamped his and his wife's arrival in downtown Dallas at 12.10 PM? Yes or no?

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #124 on: February 16, 2021, 11:42:59 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #125 on: February 16, 2021, 11:48:28 AM »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #126 on: February 16, 2021, 03:47:06 PM »
:D

Incorrect!

Do you believe that Mr Rowland, while giving his affidavit statement, timestamped his and his wife's arrival in downtown Dallas at 12.10 PM? Yes or no?

The affidavit states the exact same thing as their WC testimony.
A Rowland: "At approximately 12:10 PM today, my wife Barbara and I arrived in downtown Dallas and took position to see the President's motorcade."

"and took position " ---- Yes or No?     Same as WC testimony Position "V"--- Yes or No?


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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #126 on: February 16, 2021, 03:47:06 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Captain Fritz show Mr Oswald a Mauser?
« Reply #127 on: February 16, 2021, 05:01:02 PM »
Just for reference, here's Jarman/Norman/Williams standing in from of the 5th floor corner window from which they watched the motorcade go by. Notice how low the lower half is. that's the only part of the window that opens. It appears to be little more than 4' from the floor.



I plugged this into some basic trigonometry using the following numbers:

Distance from Rowland to the SW column of windows in the TSBD: 280' (gained from Google Maps and the Rowland's descriptions of their location)
Height of open window: 66' (ref: Canning/HSCA, who put 6th floor sill height at 63' AGL)
Height of alleged rifleman (ranging from 5'-0" to 6'-2", which would include every sniper not in either the Lollipop Guild Special Forces or the dreaded NBA Suicide Squad.
Apparent gap between top of "rifleman" head to top of window opening (30" and 36" per A. Rowland WC testimony)

Given these, the closest the rifleman can be to the window is 13.4'....and that's for a 5'-0" tall guy with a 30" apparent gap between the top of his head and the bottom of the window sash. If the "rifleman" is 6'-2" with a 36" apparent gap between his head and the sash, then he would be standing 20'-6" inside the building.

Psssst...... This photo was taken with the three stooges standing behind the WEST window on the 5th floor ...( notice the cars in the parking are behind the north pergola )