The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

The accusation that I don't acknowledge or deal with deal contrary evidence, coming from you, is laughable.
Other than the recently mentioned T E Moore, who Jerry dealt with, name a single piece of evidence I have not acknowledged or dealt with.
The evidence relating to the Connallys is present throughout the thread but is most specifically dealt with in a discussion we had between Reply#587 and Reply#642.

Do you mean post #605: "The possibility exists Nellie is mistaken" or post #616: "Nellie Connally is mistaken in believing JBC cries out before being hit." or your suggestion in post #625 in response to me pointing out that "we have only JBC's evidence to go by, which is that he felt the impact and saw that he had been shot but did not recall hearing the sound of the shot." saying "I'll need some kind of evidence for this baloney, otherwise we'll go with the common sense explanation - there was no second shot to hear."

This is not dealing with their evidence.  You need to show evidence that conflicts with their clear statements that he was was hit on the second shot.  Gayle Newman said he was directly in front of her when hit by the second shot - she was 15 feet away from him  - and said he "kind of grabbed his chest and lay back on the seat of the car" (24 H 218)

The only "evidence" that supports your view is that you think JFK and JBC are beginning their reactions to the first shot at about the same time.

This is from Reply#587

The close-up of the Z-film below focusses on JBC. It begins with him looking to his right, towards the people lining Elm St. He has a quick look to his left then resumes looking to his right. By z167 JBC has completed his turn to the left and is looking towards the crowds to his right. He stays in this position, looking towards the crowd to his right, as he passes behind the Stemmons sign:



The pic below shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. He seems composed and untroubled, certainly in no physical discomfort. It appears he is in the same position as when he passes behind the sign.



So after his turn to the left (@ z160's), JBC is looking to his right (from z167 onwards), towards the crowds on his right. He stays in this position as he passes behind the sign and is in the same position as he emerges from behind the sign, looking composed and untroubled.

From this seemingly relaxed position JBC undergoes a rapid and extreme reaction. He is holding his Stetson hat which is resting in his lap. Between frames z222 and z228 the Stetson suddenly leaps up to his face. This action takes approximately one third of a second. It is incredibly quick. Up to this point the hat has been resting in his lap then suddenly, at exactly the same moment JFK is making his incredibly rapid movements, JBC also "decides" to make an incredibly rapid movement of his own:



This movement is so rapid it's difficult to see exactly how high the Stetson gets. In the zframe below (z228), the whitish blob in front of JBC's face is the Stetson.

You are unintentionally making my point.  All you do is repeat how convinced you are that JBC is reacting to being shot in the back beginning about z228.  To deal with Nellie and JBC's clear evidence that he was not hit in the back by that first shot you need other evidence that he was hit in the back. 

There are, of course, the statements of JBC and Nellie to the WC stating that they think that JBC was hit in frames z230 to z234. 

Had you raised that evidence, which as far as I can see is the only evidence that JBC was hit that early, I would have shown how that evidence conflicts the rest of the evidence that shows that the second shot and third shots were in rapid succession. It also conflicts with Nellie's statements that JBC said "Oh, no, no" before the second shot (he is saying it around z245) and that she never looked back after the second shot.  She turns to look at JFK in the z250's until z270.  It also conflicts with evidence that JBC turned around to see JFK after the first and before the shot that hit him in the back.  There is no attempt to turn around to see JFK before z230.

Do you acknowledge the evidence that JBC makes this incredibly quick movement as soon as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?

No. It is quick, but quite credible. He said he heard the shot and recognized it as a rifle shot, turned around to see JFK, fearing an assassination taking place.  That is what it looks like he is doing from z228 to z270.

[Jack Nessan]

One doesn't need to figure anything out. Others who were there observed the last shot as the head shot:

• Phil Willis and Linda Willis observed it.
• Ike Altgens observed it.
• The Connallys observed it. 
• Clint Hill observed it.
• SA Wm. Greer observed it.
• SA George Hickey observed it.
• SA Glen Bennett observed it.
• Dave Powers observed it.
• Kenneth O'Donnell observed it.
• Gayle Newman observed it.
• Abraham Zapruder observed it.
• Mary Woodward observed it.
• etc.

I guess "one" is you and you are right you have never figured anything out or you would not have chosen this group of witnesses to make some bizarre point.

[Andrew Mason]

I guess "one" is you and you are right you have never figured anything out or you would not have chosen this group of witnesses to make some bizarre point.

The "bizarre point" is that they all said the head shot was the last shot.  If you think that is strange and unusual you need to read more.

[Jack Nessan]

The "bizarre point" is that they all said the head shot was the last shot.  If you think that is strange and unusual you need to read more.

“One” has managed to compare witnesses with statements indicating a missed first shot, with a missed second shot, with a missed third shot, with two shot witnesses and with witnesses who state the second shot is the head shot, with witnesses who state they discussed the event and came to agreed conclusion. How about clue in and dump this idiot nonsense.

[Andrew Mason]

“One” has managed to compare witnesses with statements indicating a missed first shot, with a missed second shot, with a missed third shot, with two shot witnesses and with witnesses who state the second shot is the head shot, with witnesses who state they discussed the event and came to agreed conclusion. How about clue in and dump this idiot nonsense.

Ok.  But there is a lot of evidence that the head shot was the last shot.  You don't happen to find that evidence persuasive but many do.  The only thing "bizarre" about a conclusion based on acceptance of that evidence is you calling it bizarre and idiot nonsense.

[Dan O'meara]

Do you mean post #605: "The possibility exists Nellie is mistaken" or post #616: "Nellie Connally is mistaken in believing JBC cries out before being hit." or your suggestion in post #625 in response to me pointing out that "we have only JBC's evidence to go by, which is that he felt the impact and saw that he had been shot but did not recall hearing the sound of the shot." saying "I'll need some kind of evidence for this baloney, otherwise we'll go with the common sense explanation - there was no second shot to hear."

This is not dealing with their evidence.  You need to show evidence that conflicts with their clear statements that he was was hit on the second shot.  Gayle Newman said he was directly in front of her when hit by the second shot - she was 15 feet away from him  - and said he "kind of grabbed his chest and lay back on the seat of the car" (24 H 218)
You are unintentionally making my point.  All you do is repeat how convinced you are that JBC is reacting to being shot in the back beginning about z228.  To deal with Nellie and JBC's clear evidence that he was not hit in the back by that first shot you need other evidence that he was hit in the back. 

There are, of course, the statements of JBC and Nellie to the WC stating that they think that JBC was hit in frames z230 to z234. 

Had you raised that evidence, which as far as I can see is the only evidence that JBC was hit that early, I would have shown how that evidence conflicts the rest of the evidence that shows that the second shot and third shots were in rapid succession. It also conflicts with Nellie's statements that JBC said "Oh, no, no" before the second shot (he is saying it around z245) and that she never looked back after the second shot.  She turns to look at JFK in the z250's until z270.  It also conflicts with evidence that JBC turned around to see JFK after the first and before the shot that hit him in the back.  There is no attempt to turn around to see JFK before z230.No. It is quick, but quite credible. He said he heard the shot and recognized it as a rifle shot, turned around to see JFK, fearing an assassination taking place.  That is what it looks like he is doing from z228 to z270.

On the one hand, it is genuinely staggering that you openly refuse to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of this key piece of evidence regarding the shooting of JBC. It is there for all to see.
On the other, it's not surprising, in fact I knew you were going to do it, which is exactly why I asked the question. Having dealt with your feeble attempts to bolster your dead theory for some time, I've noticed something about your approach to handling the numerous pieces of evidence that end your dead theory. Your replies can often contain falsehood and misrepresentation, but at all times there is denial.
You have revealed the depths of your denial to anyone reading this thread.

Just to reiterate the key piece of evidence you are refusing to acknowledge:

The z-frame below [z223] shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. He seems calm and composed. There is not the slightest hint he is in discomfort as he looks towards the thinning crowds to his right. This is how he looked as he passed behind the Stemmons sign.
And let us not forget - according to your dead theory, by this frame Connally has already been shot in the leg, having been shot in the leg before he passed behind the Stemmons sign [ ] Just one of the many pieces of evidence you have to retreat into denial from.



After having emerged from behind the sign JBC's calm demeanor quickly vanishes as he begins to thrash around. From a seemingly relaxed position his arm rockets upwards so that his Stetson is suddenly in front of his face. This action takes 0.33 seconds to complete. One third of a second!
As has been demonstrated elsewhere in this thread, at the exact moment JBC begins his incredibly rapid arm movement, behind him JFK also begins his own incredibly rapid arm movement - at the same split second.

What could cause both men to suddenly move with incredible rapidity at exactly the same moment?

[Andrew Mason]

On the one hand, it is genuinely staggering that you openly refuse to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. Refusing to acknowledge the reality of this key piece of evidence regarding the shooting of JBC. It is there for all to see.

When have I ever refused to acknowledge JBC's movement as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign?  It is plain as day. Have you not read anything I have written? 

On the other, it's not surprising, in fact I knew you were going to do it, which is exactly why I asked the question. Having dealt with your feeble attempts to bolster your dead theory for some time, I've noticed something about your approach to handling the numerous pieces of evidence that end your dead theory. Your replies can often contain falsehood and misrepresentation, but at all times there is denial.
You have revealed the depths of your denial to anyone reading this thread.

Just to reiterate the key piece of evidence you are refusing to acknowledge:

The z-frame below [z223] shows JBC as he emerges from behind the Stemmons sign. He seems calm and composed. There is not the slightest hint he is in discomfort as he looks towards the thinning crowds to his right. This is how he looked as he passed behind the Stemmons sign.

Of course.  He was not hit in the back by it and he never felt the bullet striking his thigh.  He was momentarily processing the sound that he had just heard and begins reacting at z228 - not to being hit by it but by recognizing it as a rifle shot and fearing and assassination was underway.

And let us not forget - according to your dead theory, by this frame Connally has already been shot in the leg, having been shot in the leg before he passed behind the Stemmons sign [ ] Just one of the many pieces of evidence you have to retreat into denial from.

You assume that he necessarily would have immediately felt a bullet striking his thigh.  He said he never felt the thigh wound.

It may surprise you but bullets are not often felt unless it hits a nerve or hits bone with a lot of force.  Don't take it from me, listen to someone who knows what it feels like to be shot (she talks about her chest wound at about 5:05):

See also her TikTok video (download first and then play if it stops midway)
This woman was shot during a bank robbery in the chest and wrist.  She felt neither impact but did immediately feel the effect of the wrist wound because the bullet hit a nerve.  She did not feel the chest wound at all and didn't even notice it until minutes later when someone noticed she was bleeding in the chest.

After having emerged from behind the sign JBC's calm demeanor quickly vanishes as he begins to thrash around. From a seemingly relaxed position his arm rockets upwards so that his Stetson is suddenly in front of his face. This action takes 0.33 seconds to complete. One third of a second!
As has been demonstrated elsewhere in this thread, at the exact moment JBC begins his incredibly rapid arm movement, behind him JFK also begins his own incredibly rapid arm movement - at the same split second.

What could cause both men to suddenly move with incredible rapidity at exactly the same moment?

A rifle shot, obviously.