The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

You think Linda Willis could see through people? She remembered a sign but it must have been the Thornton sign. Linda would have become familiar with her father's famous photo with just the Stemmons Frwy sign in it.

She said the first shot occurred when the President's car was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think the people in front of her blocked her view of the car or the Stemmons sign? Do you think she had no idea where the car was when she heard the first shot? She said it was between her and the Stemmons sign. Do you think she had no idea where JFK was in the car when the car was between her and the Stemmons sign? 

She then saw the President reacting to the first shot: "When the first one hit, well, the President turned from waving to the people, and he grabbed his throat, and he kind of slumped forward," (7 H 498).  She was clear in her interviews. such as this one, that there was no shot before this (she states this at 5:50 in the linked interview).

Rosemary's quarter-second visual check. Most people seeking the source of a strange noise look longer than that. Rosemary begins slowing and looking to her right (and away from the limousine) long before your cherry-pick. GIF animation is slowed down to quarter-speed.
Did somebody pay this witness?

Well, she is coming to the end of the sidewalk and someone may have called to her to stop.  She does not stop until z199. But she does turn her head noticeable backward at z204-207.  We don't have any sprocket view until z212 and she is still looking back.  She then turns back to watch the President's car from z214-217. It is hardly surprising that she would quickly look away and then return to looking at the main attraction?

[Dan O'meara]

I simply can't believe you two are still going on about Rosemary Willis.
It is genuinely unbelievable.
Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said that when she turned towards the book depository she could see Oswald "as clear as day".
Let's not forget that this is the same Rosemary Willis who said she saw a gunman firing from the sewer!
Let's not forget this is the same Rosemary Willis who saw gun smoke coming from the grassy knoll.
Whose first mention of stopping because she heard a shot was in 1979 - 16 years after the event.
Whose count of the the number of shots went from 3 to 4 to 6.

And let's not forget, the little girl who heard the first shot while she was running along, slowed down and turned to where she heard the shot coming from [the TSBD building], all of which is shown in the Z-film. While, but a few feet away, a carload of Secret Service agents show no sign of reacting to the same shot, also shown in the Z-film.
Hmmmm.... taxi for Common Sense!
 

[Andrew Mason]

I'm showing people who are sane and rational--and not wedded to your lamebrain pet theory--that Linda Willis's view of the limousine and most of the Stemmons Frwy Sign was blocked during the time frame you claim. Linda had a much better view when the limousine was between her and the Thornton Sign, a few seconds before her father snapped his No.5 picture.

Not up to your usual rigour, Jerry.  I expected a fancy overhead diagram showing how two people 15-20 feet ahead of her would block an entire 21 foot limousine 30 feet in front of them for the entire time it was passing in front of them.  Go for it. Here's mine:

Blue circle shows where Linda Willis was standing at z197.

Top of blue line is 5'4" above the surface. This gives 5 feet for her and 4" for the sidewalk. You can see that neither her father nor Croft block her view at z197. She had a completely clear view of the limo and the Stemmons sign and would have been able to see how JFK reacted to the first shot at that point.

I think she merely misremembered the particular sign she saw because she had become more familiar with her father's famous photo that has the Stemmons sign prominently featured. She certainly can't see anything of the President in the Z190s and beyond, let alone him grab at his throat. I don't believe she lived near Dealey Plaza or went there regularly as a teenager.

We are supposed to accept your speculation that she got mixed up on the sign?  Do you have any evidence? 

Z212 doesn't even show Rosemary's head as it was in Z212 because of the splice. Z213 is too blurred to determine anything. Personally I believe I see a good amount of flesh tone on Rosemary's hood in Z213.

Why don't you just admit that as the blur resolves, Rosemary's head is already turned towards the car?

I am not the only one who sees Rosemary turning her head from z214-217.  Roberdeau makes special mention of the turn:

[John Iacoletti]

Any witness statement that Jerry doesn't like must be due to "cajoling" from conspiracy theorists.

[Andrew Mason]

When they go from three shots from the Depository to four-or-five shots with the head shot coming from the knoll, how else to explain it?

You are referring to an interview given nearly 40 years after the events.  This is after she has read and, apparently, been persuaded by all sorts of conspiracy kooks and even acted a part in Stone's movie JFK. Besides, we are not using her evidence for the direction or number of shots.

[Dan O'meara]

I let a lot of Mason's posts go by. Mason and you engage much more than I do.

The father also went CT-Simple. He originally thought all three shots came from the Depository. Years of cajoling from Loons would make anyone doubt what they saw. Doctors at Parkland recall Lifton trying to get them to confirm something they never saw.

I watched a few interviews with Linda Willis and she's totally into conspiracy and shots from the front. She said her father in 1964 noticed a train was removed from the No.5 photo. I doubt if that allegation came out earlier than the 1990s. But Linda has evolved what-to-her is an authentic memory of that. Not unusual as the human mind is not a digital camera.

I thought the Willis's were a nice common-sense Texan family. But hasn't the whole state gotten more CT-simple over the decades?

Did anybody interview her before 1979? Probably her first interviews were not influenced by CTs.

In any event, too bad for Mason and you that Rosemary slows down and looks to her right seconds before your theories would like.

Adults--even SS agents--would be more inclined to dismiss the first shot as a backfire or firecracker. Rosemary was very young and the loud report would have been more novel to her.

In any event, too bad for Mason and you that Rosemary slows down and looks to her right seconds before your theories would like.

Why?
What does Rosemary Willis have to do with any theory I'm proposing?
It's you and Andrew who are cherry-picking from her various dubious statements in order to prop up your own defunct theories.
It's embarrassing to watch.

Adults--even SS agents--would be more inclined to dismiss the first shot as a backfire or firecracker. Rosemary was very young and the loud report would have been more novel to her.

This is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever posted.
If you'd bother to read some of the testimonies of the Secret Service agents in the Presidential back-up car you'd find some of them reacted immediately to the first shot. The reason they are not seen reacting in the Z-film is because the first shot isn't until z222/z223, at which time they are no longer in the film [see OP of this thread]
Your defense of little Rosemary's superior shot-recognition capabilities is beyond desperate.

[Andrew Mason]

In any event, too bad for Mason and you that Rosemary slows down and looks to her right seconds before your theories would like.

Why?
What does Rosemary Willis have to do with any theory I'm proposing?
It's you and Andrew who are cherry-picking from her various dubious statements in order to prop up your own defunct theories.
It's embarrassing to watch.

One does not have to rely on anything Rosemary said to use her sudden turn at z204-207 (which is the only time she is looking back at the TSBD) together with other evidence to see that the turn is in response to the first shot. That other evidence includes her father's statement that his z202 photo was taken an instant after the first shot, together with Jack Ready's statement that he turned immediately after hearing the first shot (he begins turning at z199). 

We both agree that the witnesses along Elm St. and those in the motorcade who relate their position at the time of the first shot, as well as Betzner and Croft, provide abundant evidence that the first shot was later than 186 and struck JFK.  We just disagree that there is evidence that he was hit as late as z222/223.

Adults--even SS agents--would be more inclined to dismiss the first shot as a backfire or firecracker. Rosemary was very young and the loud report would have been more novel to her.

This is one of the most ridiculous things you've ever posted.
If you'd bother to read some of the testimonies of the Secret Service agents in the Presidential back-up car you'd find some of them reacted immediately to the first shot. The reason they are not seen reacting in the Z-film is because the first shot isn't until z222/z223, at which time they are no longer in the film [see OP of this thread]
Your defense of little Rosemary's superior shot-recognition capabilities is beyond desperate.

Jerry likes to explain away the evidence he does not like.  As far as the Secret Service agents reacting, one can see Jack Ready remove his right hand from the front handhold at z199 and begin his turn around that is complete by z256 as seen in the Altgens photo. He said he turned immediately in response to the first shot.