Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 101346 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4610 on: January 24, 2022, 04:16:08 AM »
A Coup in Plain Sight (A Meidas Original Short)

This is a coup in plain sight. History will judge where we stand in this moment. Which side are you on?


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4611 on: January 24, 2022, 03:20:49 PM »
Trump's acts of 'outright illegality' on full display in Georgia investigation: conservative attorney

In a column for the Atlantic, former attorney and conservative political commentator David French claimed that, if people are looking for criminal charges to be filed against Donald Trump, they should be keeping their eyes on the state of Georgia.

According to the longtime political commentator, the written request by Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis for a special grand jury to hear testimony and information on the attempt to overturn Georgia's election results in 2020 can only bolster a very strong case based on information that has already been released.

As French wrote, "With this letter, Willis brought back to the fore the actions surrounding the 2020 election contest by former President Donald Trump that are most suspect under both state and federal criminal law. The district attorney seeks a special grand jury with good reason, as Trump appears to have crossed the line into outright illegality, and that behavior merits a serious and thorough criminal investigation."

French noted that the public's attention has mostly rested on the Jan 6th House committee investigating the former president's part in fomenting an insurrection and stopping the certification of Joe Biden as the new president, before pointing out there is a clearer case playing out in Georgia.

"Georgia’s relevant criminal-solicitation statute is also both straightforward and deeply problematic for Trump. Its first provision states: 'A person commits the offense of criminal solicitation to commit election fraud in the first degree when, with intent that another person engage in conduct constituting a felony under this article, he or she solicits, requests, commands, importunes, or otherwise attempts to cause the other person to engage in such conduct," French wrote before adding, "And what is the precise violation of Georgia election law that Trump was conspiring to commit and soliciting others to commit? His demands implicate a number of laws, but among the most applicable is Georgia Code Section 21-2-566, which prohibits willfully tampering 'with any electors list, voter’s certificate, numbered list of voters, ballot box, voting machine, direct recording electronic (DRE) equipment, electronic ballot marker, or tabulating machine.'"

Listing off a host of other laws that the former president appears to have run roughshod over, French concluded, "For a sitting American president to seek to engineer a coup is unprecedented, but our law contains ample precedents that punish other citizens for similar misconduct. The law is not just for the little people. Trump is not a king. He does not enjoy sovereign immunity. He is presently nothing more than a private citizen, and if President Trump broke the law, then Citizen Trump should face the consequences."

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4612 on: January 24, 2022, 03:27:07 PM »
'The walls are closing in’: Trump reels from week of political setbacks
It was a terrible seven days, with major developments in investigations of his election lies and the Capitol riot reaching into his inner circle

The last time Donald Trump heard such hammer blows, they were from renovations at Mar-a-Lago that displeased the former president. But not even that sound would have left his ears ringing like last week’s avalanche of bad news that some believe nudged a criminal indictment one step closer.

No single week in the year since Trump left the White House has been as dramatic, or for him as potentially catastrophic, as the one just passed.

It included a rebuke from the supreme court over documents related to the 6 January insurrection which Trump incited; news that the congressional committee investigating the riot was closing in on Trump’s inner circle; evidence from New York’s attorney general of alleged tax fraud; and, perhaps most damaging of all, a request from a Georgia prosecutor for a grand jury in her investigation of Trump’s attempt to overturn the 2020 election.

The week ended with the leaking of a document showing that Trump at least pondered harnessing the military in his attempts to overturn Joe Biden’s victory.

It all left the former president with plenty to ponder.

"He’s Teflon Don, he said he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and survive it, his supporters are going to support him no matter what, but I’m starting to think more and more that the walls are closing in on this guy,” said Kimberly Wehle, a respected legal analyst and professor of law at the University of Baltimore.

“The most immediate thing is the grand jury in Georgia because there’s audio of him trying to get [secretary of state] Brad Raffensperger to ‘find’ votes. Under Georgia election laws as I read them that is potentially a crime.

“The looming question is whether Trump will be indicted along with 11 others so far for seditious conspiracy [over the 6 January Capitol attack]. To me that’s the biggest turn of events … the justice department believes they have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt of an agreement, a meeting of minds to overturn a legitimate election.

“And that there are a lot of high-level people that are looped into it, including potentially Donald Trump himself, and of course he’s not president, so he’s not immune from prosecution any more.”

It is that Department of Justice investigation into the deadly Capitol assault, parallel but separate to the 6 January House committee, which harbors the most legal peril for Trump. Some believe sedition charges for members of the Oath Keepers militia indicate that the inquiry has moved into a higher gear.

Others, most recently Preet Bharara, former district attorney for the southern district of New York, have questioned why it appears members of Trump’s inner guard, including former chief of staff Mark Meadows, have not yet been questioned.

“It’s just not a possibility they’ve tried to interview, you know, a dozen of the top people at and around the White House like the [6 January] committee has [because] they squeal like stuck pigs when people approach them,” Bharara told The New Abnormal podcast, a Daily Beast podcast.

“It’s odd to have allowed all this testimony to be collected, all these documents to be subpoenaed and compiled, and they don’t look like they’ve done any of these interviews. There are some lower-level people who breached the doors to the Capitol, but I don’t think those people are giving it up in a straight line to Trump.”

At a rare press conference earlier this month, the attorney general, Merrick Garland, did not mention Trump by name but sought to reassure critics of his investigation.

"The justice department remains committed to holding all January 6th perpetrators, at any level, accountable under law – whether they were present that day or were otherwise criminally responsible for the assault on our democracy,” he said in a carefully worded address.

The objectives of the House committee are easier to divine and more likely in the immediate term to cause political harm to Trump as he mulls another White House run.

Thursday’s request for testimony from his daughter Ivanka, a former White House adviser, brings the investigation to the heart of Trump’s inner circle. Trump’s actions are also set to be explored in primetime TV hearings that Jamie Raskin, a Democratic member of the committee, has promised will “blow the roof off the House”.

The panel also scored a big victory on Wednesday when the supreme court ended Trump’s efforts to shield more than 700 pages of White House records. The treasure trove of documents included a draft executive order directing the Department of Defense to seize voting machines, and appointing a special counsel to look into the election, in support of Trump’s “big lie” that the election was stolen.

"Documents don’t die, they don’t lie,” Wehle said. “A witness can say, ‘Oh, I don’t recall,’ and dance around it. Documents cannot. Secondly, the documents will lead to more people to discuss what happened, including Ivanka Trump.”

Trump himself has been uncharacteristically quiet about his week of setbacks, other than two statements attacking Fani Willis, the Democratic district attorney for Fulton county, Georgia, for requesting a grand jury to assist her investigation into his election interference.

"The people looking for the crime are being hounded and the people who committed the crime are being protected,” he said. “This is not the American way.”

To Wehle, the week’s developments have significance not only for Trump but for November midterm elections in which Republicans are tipped to reclaim Congress.

“We have to think about the January 6th committee as getting information to voters before November about sitting members who might be up for reelection,” she said.

“The question is not so much whether Trump will be indicted, but who in a seat of power in the US Congress was potentially involved in this conspiracy.

“Frankly, if American democracy is to be saved from single-party minority rule, November is absolutely vital.”

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4613 on: January 24, 2022, 04:31:08 PM »
No mas!  For the love of a merciful God, let it go.  You are at almost 500 pages just on this thread alone. 

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4614 on: January 25, 2022, 12:07:09 AM »
Fulton County DA gets her 'special grand jury' — here's what it means for Trump: legal analysts

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis was granted her request to a special grand jury investigation for the pressure campaign against Georgia officials after the 2020 general election. The proceeding will commence on May 2, 2022, and won't exceed 12 months, the court documents say.

The Fulton County D.A.’s request for a special grand jury, to aide its investigation into Trump and election interference, has been granted.

University of Alabama law professor and former federal prosecutor Joyce White Vance explained that the grand jury will have the power to compel the production of documents that previous witnesses may have been unwilling to hand over. It takes a very long time to summon a grand jury, she explained

CNN legal analyst Elie Honig explained that the information that is in the public sphere should have been enough to summon the grand jury but he said that she's been spending the past year doing her own investigation to make the case that there was fraud in the attempt to overthrow the election.

He explained that unlike many grand juries, the "special grand jury" would issue a recommendation for prosecution, whereas a regular grand jury would file the indictment. Honig said that if they don't take that route, she still has the power to take it to a regular grand jury with the request to indict.

CNN host Alisyn Camerota noted that as Willis was doing her own investigation she was asking for cooperation from witnesses who refused to speak to her or turn over documents. With the special grand jury, these people can officially be subpoenaed in the probe.

The letter from Willis specifically cites Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, who has refused to cooperate with the probe, but she also noted that there were others. Trump was recorded speaking to Raffensperger after the election demanding that he "find 11,780 votes" so he could overturn the Georgia election results.

This news comes only weeks after it was revealed former President Donald Trump's lawyers met with the prosecutors in the case last year, which then prompted a rant about Democrats being after him.

See the video and comments in link below:

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4615 on: January 25, 2022, 12:10:29 AM »
'Another seditious conspiracy': Pro-Trump attorney slammed for his 'chilling' plot to submit fake electors

On CNN Monday, former Justice Department counterintelligence official and House Ethics Committee counsel David Laufman tore into pro-Trump attorney Boris Epshteyn after he admitted to his involvement in the plot to submit fake Trump electors in states President Joe Biden won.

"What he's admitting to is this scheme to submit these alternate electoral slates in at least seven states here, actually submitted them and said, hey, these are the actual electors," said anchor John Berman. "In other words, Donald Trump won these states even though he didn't win these states, and these electors will vote for him in the Electoral College. Is it clear exactly what law might have been broken there?"

"It's not clear exactly, but here is what we know," said Laufman. "Think about this in the broader context of what we recently learned about this draft presidential order. In one respect, that order is comical, like an executive order version of the infamous Rudy Giuliani press conference at Four Seasons Landscaping. In other respects, it's chilling. It reflects an intent by the president or the people around him to use United States military forces to seize voting machines, to federalize the national guard. It relies on legal authorities commonly applied against our foreign adversaries."

"Whether the Department of Justice investigation leads to criminal liability remains to be seen, but hypothetically there could be evidence adduced that would lead to another seditious conspiracy charge, to a conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, and there could be even violations with respect to the transmittal of classified information, the national security memoranda cited in the order," continued Laufman. "Did somebody disclose classified information to someone not authorized to receive it? It's a law school exam of potential issues that the Department of Justice needs to investigate."

Watch below:

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4616 on: January 25, 2022, 12:14:26 AM »
Cracks are emerging between Republicans as the fake 2020 electors scheme comes under more scrutiny

As Merrick Garland explained in his big speech earlier this month, the way to dismantle a criminal conspiracy is to start at the bottom and work up. It’s a slow process, but it can be devastatingly effective.

That’s why the fifty-nine Republicans who cast fake electoral votes are a gift to investigators seeking to understand Trump’s role in the plot to overturn the 2020 election. These pseudo-electors impersonated public officials in a bid to overturn a presidential election.

They signed forged paperwork and sent it to the government. It’s an open-and-shut case, but investigators could parlay this into something much bigger than prison terms for a few dozen local GOP operatives.

In a group of nearly 60 people facing serious prison time, at least some of them will be willing to implicate the higher ups to save themselves.

“Once those individuals see that they could possibly be facing prison time, I do think we’re going to see some people flip and we’ll get some further information as to who orchestrated this in the first place,” Michigan attorney general Dana Nessel told MSNBC viewers last week, adding that, “It may go all the way to the top.”

Nessel noted that under Michigan law, those who signed the fake certificates could face up to 14 years in prison for forging a public record and five years for election law forgery.

The AG said she’s prepared to prosecute if she has to, but said the federal government is better suited to handle what is clearly a sprawling conspiracy orchestrated across state lines. Wisconsin's Attorney General Josh Kaul agrees this is a case for the feds.

They’re not wrong.

The fake certificates come from seven states, but they have nearly identical verbiage and formatting. Real certificates of ascertainment all look slightly different because there’s no standardized form. Yet the fake ones all look alike. The question: Who supplied the template?

Trump’s inner circle was obsessed with the fake electors scheme. Memos by Trump lawyer John Eastman show that he assigned these fake electoral votes a starring role in his procedural coup. It was these fake votes he hoped Mike Pence would count instead of the real ones.

Weeks before the electoral vote, Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows was texting about how much he loved a plan to seat fake electors. Trump advisor Steven Miller even went on television to describe the plan to present congress with “alternative” electoral votes. US Rep. Mo Brooks led an effort to throw out the electoral votes of the Biden swing states, reportedly with Trump’s blessing.

US Rep. Louie Gohmert teamed up with some of the pseudo-electors to sue Mike Pence in a doomed bid to force the VP to count the phony votes. The connection between the fake electors and that lawsuit was reported well ahead of J6.

"The fake electors are counting on Pence and congressional Republicans to treat those informal votes as equal to the slates certified in those states where Trump was defeated,” Kyle Cheney of Politico wrote on Dec 28.

The pressure is on, and the cracks in the facade are spreading.

Arizona state Rep. Jake Hoffman refused to answer a reporter’s question about how he came to cast a fake vote for Trump, nervously referring all questions to “the party chair.”

The chair of the Arizona GOP is Dr. Kelli Ward, who was not only a fake elector but also Gohmert’s co-plaintiff. A number of the fake electors are high-ranking officials in their state parties. Wisconsin’s fake votes were even submitted by the state party’s chair on Wisconsin GOP letterhead.

Pennsylvania’s fake electors are already distancing themselves from their co-conspirators, stressing they refused to sign the electoral vote paperwork unless they could include a proviso that they weren’t the lawful electors unless a court recognized them as such.

“We were not going to sign unless the language was changed to say ‘if,’ fake elector Sam DeMarco told a local paper. “This was in no way, shape or form us trying to go around the election.”

The fact that Pennsylvania and Nevada felt it necessary to include a disclaimer makes the states that didn’t look even worse, like they were trying to, well, go against the election.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4617 on: January 25, 2022, 12:33:11 AM »
Things are moving fast in Georgia against Criminal Donald. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis requested a special grand jury on January 20th to aid her investigation into Criminal Donald's coup attempt to steal the state of Georgia from President Joe Biden. And just four days later, she was granted her request for this special grand jury to probe into Criminal Donald's scheme to overturn the will of the American people. Lindsey Graham must be not be sleeping well since he was on the phone pressuring Georgia officials to overturn an election that Criminal Donald lost. When it's all said and done, these treasonous anti American traitors will all be indicted and locked away behind bars where they belong.       

Georgia prosecutor requests special grand jury in Trump election probe
Fulton County DA Fani Willis said some witnesses have refused to cooperate without subpoenas. A special grand jury would have the power to subpoena witnesses.

January 20, 2022

Georgia prosecutor granted special grand jury in Trump election probe
A special grand jury will have the power to subpoena witnesses in an investigation that’s focusing on any “coordinated attempts to unlawfully alter the outcome of the 2020 elections" in Georgia.

January 24, 2022

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4618 on: January 25, 2022, 01:58:33 AM »
'Clearly forgery': Watergate lawyer says Trump adviser Boris Epshteyn badly incriminated himself on live TV

Former Watergate attorney Jill Wine-Banks explained to MSNBC's Ari Melber that Republicans who signed onto a false document claiming to be an elector when they weren't and then submitted to the government is a crime.

While discussing the fake electors scheme on Monday, Melber played a clip of former President Donald Trump's campaign adviser, Boris Epshteyn, who effectively admitted to being part of the 2020 elector conspiracy on live television.

"Yes, I was part of the process to make sure there were alternate electors for when, as we hoped, the challenges to the seated electors would be heard and be successful," he confessed.

Reacting to this, Wine-Banks said she certainly would love to be the lawyer on the other side of his case, implying that it would be an easy win. Responding to Epshteyn, she said that he didn't do it legally because you can't create a fake slate of electors. It's fraud, she explained, and a conspiracy to interfere with the election, conspiracy to interfere with an official congressional proceeding, and conspiracy to commit forgery within the federal laws and state laws.

"You noted that two of the states caveated their forgeries by saying 'this is only good in the event that the legitimate slate of Democratic electors fails,'" she reclled. "Then we become the electors. But the other states all said we are the dually elected electors. That is clearly forgery. And there is a forgery statute not for forging money, which is normally how you think of forgery, but for other government-related documents."

Melber then played a clip of Epshteyn on Steve Bannon's show, trying to clean up the MSNBC interview.

"All I did was very calmly, methodically walk through the law," he claimed. "As the legal team, it was our job to make sure every constituency was covered. So, hence the process that was undertaken. It was loud and clear on MSNBC that, one, President Trump won the election. Two, that it was stolen. Three, a legal case was laid out."

Wine-Banks shot down every point he tried to make.

"There was no contingency in existence," she said to Epshteyn's claims. "It was clear who won the votes in that state. We have a rule where we count the votes of the people. Not the people who wanted it to be somebody else. But if you vote, your vote gets counted. You vote for an elector and only that elector can represent you and cast the ballot at the Electoral College. We should amend the Electoral College Act. We should eliminate the Electoral College. We have ways of communicating that do not require the Electoral College as it was set up in a time there weren't the official communication methods that we now have. But even under the laws now, there was nothing legal about what they did. And the elector slates were certified or ascertained, is the official word, were ascertained by each state, signed off by the governor, and sent officially to the Congress to be counted."

Wine-Banks closed by explaining specifics of how this case is somewhat similar to the plots in the Watergate scandal.

See the discussion below:

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #4619 on: January 25, 2022, 02:23:32 PM »
'As corrupt as it comes': Damning evidence puts Trump at risk in quickly moving criminal investigation

MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski said the audio from Donald Trump's call to Georgia election officials never loses its power to shock.

In fact, the "Morning Joe" co-host said, the recording -- which is now a key piece of evidence that will be heard by a grand jury -- has only gotten worse with time.

"The investigation into whether or not President Trump tried to overturn his defeat in that state -- spoiler alert, he did, so I think we got that," said panelist Jonathan Lemire. "That phone call obviously is going to be the center of this. He hits the specific vote total that he needed to overturn the result, he's leaning on a fellow Republican, secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, there. A lot of legal experts have suggested that this case poses more legal peril to him than some of the others circulating, those in New York, there's an indication Washington, D.C. might investigate his words leading up to the insurrection."

"This is something to watch carefully," he added. "The next step will be subpoenas, whether or not Trump himself or those around him, some of the aides in the White House that day, including Mark Meadows, maybe they will get them, will they be forced to testify? That we will find out in the spring."

The evidence shows Trump tried to get losing results overturned in a number of states, but Brzezinski said nothing has emerged that's quite as egregious as the Georgia call.

"You know, that phone call gets worse with time, if it's possible," she said. "I mean, it was bad when we first heard it, but hearing him say, you know, you can simply say that you recalculated -- I mean, my God, as corrupt as it comes."


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