Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 14116 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #850 on: January 11, 2021, 03:29:19 AM »
As I've already made clear, I do not believe for one second the story told by Ms Reid after 11/23. It's as phony as the lunchroom story her boss Mr Truly was telling.

Now, in the light of the above information from Ms Martha Reed------------in which she informs both Ms Reid and Ms Hine in the second floor office area that JFK has just been shot-------------I offer again Ms Scranton's recollection of what Ms Reid was telling colleagues in the second floor office while they were on lock-down after the shooting:

"Mrs Reid said that she--when everybody was walking and milling and so forth--that Lee came to the door with a coke in his hand and said, 'What's all the excitement about?' And Mrs Reid said she told him, 'Oh my God, someone has shot the President'"

The temptation is to read this as "Mrs Reid, when everybody was walking and milling and so forth, said that..." But that's not what Ms Scranton has said, which is instead: "Mrs Reid said that she--when everybody was walking and milling and so forth--that Lee came to the door..."

What if we put these two elements together, i.e.
--------------a) Ms Jeraldean Reid not knowing about the shooting until Ms Martha Reed comes into the second floor office and tells her and Ms Hine about what has just happened out in the street
--------------b) Ms Jeraldean Reid having an interaction with Mr Oswald at a time when "everybody was walking and milling and so forth" and when she (Ms Reid) has knowledge that somebody has shot the President?

When and where might such a LHO-Reid encounter have really happened?

One way into this might be to note a certain detail in this photograph of the second-floor lunchroom---------------


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #851 on: January 11, 2021, 05:15:47 AM »
If PM is Oswald then he was still outside even as Baker is seen in Couch film running across the pavement towards the TSBD entrance steps.

Since PM has been outside for the duration of the 3 shots fired   Idoes not make any sense he would have asked a question like “what’s all the excitement about?” in some post shots meeting with Mrs Reid.

On the other hand , if Oswald has been eating his lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom 12:15 to 12:30 ( Carolyn Arnold sighting him SEATED at 12:15)

Then a siren crescendo by 20 sec shots might of been the reason Oswald left the lunchroom, approx 20 sec post shots , wearing only his Tshirt and with an unopened coke in hand, to enter the 2nd floor office to enquire why airens were going off

Hence, the Question “What’s all the excitement about”  when Oswald meets Reid entering the front office door at approx 50-60 sec post shots





Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #852 on: January 11, 2021, 05:47:09 AM »
The other alternatives:
1: Mrs Reid fabricating a false story
2. Mrs Reid confusing a pre parade meeting with Oswald just before she being the last of the office women to leave the office approx 12:14 a minute
prior to Carolyn Arnold returning to the lunchroom at 12:15
3. Mrs Reid is one of those women seen ascending the TSBD front steps in Couch film and runs into PM (Oswald) and for some reason Oswald hasn’t realized the President was shot even though Oswald must have heard shots fired, this asking Reid what’s all the excitement about
4. Mrs Reid is one of the women seen turning around in the Couch film as Baker runs past and thru them, and thus meets Oswald about 15 seconds behind Baker and Truly entering the front lobby (approx 35 sec post shots)
The meeting occurs with Oswald as Reid try’s to use the passenger elevator and finds its inoperative

5. Oswald meets Baker/Truly in the entrance lobby. Oswald has returned into the front lobby about 10 sec before Baker enters the front door. Oswald goes to storage room by the front staircase where he had left his jacket, puts it on and exits just as Baker and Truly have traversed the entrance foyer  and about open the 2nd set of glass doors.

6. Oswald is missed being seen by Baker/Truly in the foyer because Oswald was going up the front staircase , in his way to A. Get his jacket, which he had left in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and B. Returning his empty coke or Dr.Pepper bottle, to the box Mr. Ford has pointed out in the lunchroom photo

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #853 on: January 11, 2021, 02:25:07 PM »
If PM is Oswald then he was still outside even as Baker is seen in Couch film running across the pavement towards the TSBD entrance steps.

Since PM has been outside for the duration of the 3 shots fired   Idoes not make any sense he would have asked a question like “what’s all the excitement about?” in some post shots meeting with Mrs Reid.

On the other hand , if Oswald has been eating his lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom 12:15 to 12:30 ( Carolyn Arnold sighting him SEATED at 12:15)

Then a siren crescendo by 20 sec shots might of been the reason Oswald left the lunchroom, approx 20 sec post shots , wearing only his Tshirt and with an unopened coke in hand, to enter the 2nd floor office to enquire why airens were going off

Hence, the Question “What’s all the excitement about”  when Oswald meets Reid entering the front office door at approx 50-60 sec post shots

If PM is Oswald then he was still outside even as Baker is seen in Couch film running across the pavement towards the TSBD entrance steps.

PM man isn't Lee Oswald.....

Since PM has been outside for the duration of the 3 shots fired   Idoes not make any sense he would have asked a question like “what’s all the excitement about?” in some post shots meeting with Mrs Reid.

That's logical.... 

On the other hand , if Oswald has been eating his lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom 12:15 to 12:30 ( Carolyn Arnold sighting him SEATED at 12:15)

Lee said that he ate his lunch in the FIRST FLOOR lunchroom.  He also said that he saw Jarman and Norman as they walked by the Domino room while he was eating his lunch.  Jarman and Norman walked by the Domino room at about 12:23....


Then a siren crescendo by 20 sec shots might of been the reason Oswald left the lunchroom, approx 20 sec post shots , wearing only his Tshirt and with an unopened coke in hand, to enter the 2nd floor office to enquire why airens were going off


Hmmmmm....  So you believe the shooting occurred at about 12:15 ....and Lee was in the second floor lunchroom?? WHY on earth would you believe such nonsense?


Hence, the Question “What’s all the excitement about”  when Oswald meets Reid entering the front office door at approx 50-60 sec post shots

There's NO solid evidence that Lee walked through the second floor office are about 2 or 3 mintues AFTER the first shot was fired.....    We have only Mrs. Reid's story, and her story sounds like "office gossip" and it doesn't make sense.....
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 02:28:32 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #854 on: January 11, 2021, 02:59:36 PM »
The other alternatives:
1: Mrs Reid fabricating a false story
2. Mrs Reid confusing a pre parade meeting with Oswald just before she being the last of the office women to leave the office approx 12:14 a minute
prior to Carolyn Arnold returning to the lunchroom at 12:15
3. Mrs Reid is one of those women seen ascending the TSBD front steps in Couch film and runs into PM (Oswald) and for some reason Oswald hasn’t realized the President was shot even though Oswald must have heard shots fired, this asking Reid what’s all the excitement about
4. Mrs Reid is one of the women seen turning around in the Couch film as Baker runs past and thru them, and thus meets Oswald about 15 seconds behind Baker and Truly entering the front lobby (approx 35 sec post shots)
The meeting occurs with Oswald as Reid try’s to use the passenger elevator and finds its inoperative

5. Oswald meets Baker/Truly in the entrance lobby. Oswald has returned into the front lobby about 10 sec before Baker enters the front door. Oswald goes to storage room by the front staircase where he had left his jacket, puts it on and exits just as Baker and Truly have traversed the entrance foyer  and about open the 2nd set of glass doors.

6. Oswald is missed being seen by Baker/Truly in the foyer because Oswald was going up the front staircase , in his way to A. Get his jacket, which he had left in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and B. Returning his empty coke or Dr.Pepper bottle, to the box Mr. Ford has pointed out in the lunchroom photo

1: Mrs Reid fabricating a false story

Yes, Mrs Reid, made up the story about seeing Lee walk through the office area about 2 or three minutes after the first shot was fired .  It was just innocent "office gossip" and she had no idea that she laid the foundation on which a shyster lawyer would build a false case against Lee Oswald.

We know that IF the incident had occurred it would have to have happened just a few minutes after the first shot was fired, and AFTER Baker had encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom.   There was no way that Mrs Reid could have known that someone had shot at the President just a couple of minutes after the shooting..... And I doubt that she would have speculated about the shots so soon after the shooting.           

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #855 on: January 11, 2021, 06:09:35 PM »
Since PM has been outside for the duration of the 3 shots fired   Idoes not make any sense he would have asked a question like “what’s all the excitement about?” in some post shots meeting with Mrs Reid.

Well, others in that doorway said they didn't know what had just happened until Ms Gloria Calvery came running up and told them the President had been shot.

Quote
On the other hand , if Oswald has been eating his lunch in the 2nd floor lunchroom 12:15 to 12:30 ( Carolyn Arnold sighting him SEATED at 12:15)

Then a siren crescendo by 20 sec shots might of been the reason Oswald left the lunchroom, approx 20 sec post shots , wearing only his Tshirt and with an unopened coke in hand, to enter the 2nd floor office to enquire why airens were going off

Hence, the Question “What’s all the excitement about”  when Oswald meets Reid entering the front office door at approx 50-60 sec post shots

This leaves out the all-important Hosty draft report: Mr Oswald said he "went outside to watch P. Parade"--------something that makes no sense if he's just been told JFK has been shot.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #856 on: January 11, 2021, 06:11:26 PM »
1: Mrs Reid fabricating a false story

Yes, Mrs Reid, made up the story about seeing Lee walk through the office area about 2 or three minutes after the first shot was fired .  It was just innocent "office gossip" and she had no idea that she laid the foundation on which a shyster lawyer would build a false case against Lee Oswald.

We know that IF the incident had occurred it would have to have happened just a few minutes after the first shot was fired, and AFTER Baker had encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom.   There was no way that Mrs Reid could have known that someone had shot at the President just a couple of minutes after the shooting..... And I doubt that she would have speculated about the shots so soon after the shooting.         


Mrs. REID. Well, when I heard-I heard three shots.
Mr. BELIN. You heard three shots?
Mrs. Rzm. And I turned to Mr. Campbell and I said, “Oh, my goodness, I am
afraid those came from our building,” because it seemed like they came just so
directly over my head, and then I looked up in the windows, and saw three
colored boys up there, I only recognized one because I didn’t know the rest of
them so well.
Mr. BELIN. Which one did you know?
Mrs. REID. James Jarman.
Mr. BJZLIN. You recognized James Jarman?
Mrs. REID. Yes; because I had had some dealings with him in the business
part and I knew him. I couldn’t have told you the other two at all because I
didn’t know them.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember that floor you saw them on?
Mrs. REIIL Well, I wasn’t exactly looking at the floor, I don’t know, I would
say a couple of floors up. I mean several anyway. I don’t know exactly.
Mr. BELIN. You don’t remember which floor it was.
Mrs. REID. I couldn’t tell you because, you know, I didn’t count the floors
and I didn’t count them, and I made the statement “Oh, I hope they don’t think
any of our boys have done this” and I had no thoughts of anything like that. I
turned and went back in the building.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Now, let me ask you this then.
273
Mrs. Rnm. All right.
Mr. BEUIP. Before you turned and went back into the building did you-did
Mr. Campbell say anything to you?
Mrs. Rxro. He said, “Oh, Mrs. Reid, no, it came from the grassy area down
this way,” and that was the last I said to him.
Mr. BELIE. All right. When he said “this way” which direction was he
pointing?
Mrs. REID. Well, I hope I get my directions. In the direction of the parade
was going, in the bottom of that direction.
Mr. Baa. Now, did you look around after the shots and notice what people
were doing?
Mrs. REID. Well, it was just a mass of confusion. I saw people beginning to
fall, and the thought that went through my mind, my goodness I must get out
of this line of shots, they may fire some more. and don’t ask me why I went
into the building because I don’t know.

LBJ's cover up committee determined that Lee Oswald would have passed  Mrs Reid near her deak in the office area,  about 2 minutes after the first shot was fired.  Baker had encountered Lee In the Lunchroom about 1 1/2  minutes after the first shot was fired.   At that Time Mrs Reid allegedly  said to Lee....( paraphrased) "Someone has shot the President but I don't know if they hit him." 

Question.... How could Mrs Reid have made that assumption so soon after the shooting?   

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #857 on: January 11, 2021, 06:15:50 PM »
6. Oswald is missed being seen by Baker/Truly in the foyer because Oswald was going up the front staircase , in his way to A. Get his jacket, which he had left in the 2nd floor lunchroom, and B. Returning his empty coke or Dr.Pepper bottle, to the box Mr. Ford has pointed out in the lunchroom photo

The question is: where did Mr Oswald dispose of his empty coke bottle?

If he went back up to the second floor lunchroom to put it in the empties crate, at a time several minutes after the assassination when "everybody was walking and milling and so forth" in the office area, could this have been the time he and Ms Reid had their real encounter?

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #858 on: January 11, 2021, 07:45:21 PM »
The question is: where did Mr Oswald dispose of his empty coke bottle?

If he went back up to the second floor lunchroom to put it in the empties crate, at a time several minutes after the assassination when "everybody was walking and milling and so forth" in the office area, could this have been the time he and Ms Reid had their real encounter?

Lee said that after Baker and Truly left him in the second flor lunchroom he returned to the 1st floor Domino Room with his coke and finished eating his lunch.....then he went outside and stood around for five minutes before leaving.  He said nothing about passing through the office area ....and the most direct route to the Domino Room would have been by way the the stairs in the NW corner and then across the first floor to the NE corner where the Domino Room was located.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #859 on: January 11, 2021, 08:50:32 PM »
Lee said that after Baker and Truly left him in the second flor lunchroom he returned to the 1st floor Domino Room with his coke and finished eating his lunch.....then he went outside and stood around for five minutes before leaving.  He said nothing about passing through the office area ....and the most direct route to the Domino Room would have been by way the the stairs in the NW corner and then across the first floor to the NE corner where the Domino Room was located.

The first two reports (Hosty draft + Hosty-Bookhout joint) of what Mr Oswald said in that first interrogation make NO mention whatsoever of any lunchroom encounter with an officer & Mr Truly. The words confirming that supposed encounter are put in his mouth, after his death, by Agent Bookhout in his solo report.

Also: the Hosty draft report makes perfectly clear that Mr Oswald said he went out to watch the P. Parade----------AFTER buying the Coke and coming downstairs to eat his lunch.

Research into this phase of the case now splits into two camps:
a) those who understand the significance of the Hosty draft report that came to light in 2019
b) those who are still in denial about what's in that draft report.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2021, 08:54:58 PM by Alan Ford »

 

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