If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Gerry Down]

Adams said she ran down the stairs, ran out the back door, ran around the west side of the TSBD and when she arrived at the front door she listened to a motorcycle radio. The item she heard on the radio (a report about shots coming from the 4th floor) was not played on the radio until 12:37pm.

How in the world do you come up with BS like this.

Its in Barry Ernsts book. Though he said it took him 5 minutes to do all that running when he did a test run. In reality it takes more like 3 minutes. He mentioned the motorcycle radio issue in his book. He knew it damaged Adamss timeline of events. She said she was back inside the building within 5 minutes, but the motorcycle radio issue proves she was outside at least another 2 minutes.

[Gerry Down]

What did the WC reenactment show?

There was no official reenactment. That doesn't mean it can't be approximated using the same distances on another separate building though.

[Martin Weidmann]

Its in Barry Ernsts book. Though he said it took him 5 minutes to do all that running when he did a test run. In reality it takes more like 3 minutes. He mentioned the motorcycle radio issue in his book. He knew it damaged Adamss timeline of events. She said she was back inside the building within 5 minutes, but the motorcycle radio issue proves she was outside at least another 2 minutes.

I don't care what is in Barry Ernest' book. So what if it took her 7 instead of 5 minutes to return inside the building. It makes no difference whatsoever for the timeline.

She and Styles ran down the stairs after the third shot. The went down the stairs and next to the exit of the stairs on the left there is a loading door. They turned left and stepped on to the loading platform. They then needed to walk to the other side of the platform to go down the stars. From there they had to run back in the other direction towards the railway yard. There they are stopped by police and sent back. She then walks along side the building to get to the street in front of it. From there she walks to the front entrance of the building and overheared a radio report.

She didn't carry a stopwatch and it may well have been 7 minutes that she needed to get back into the building, via the loading dock at the back. Shelley and Lovelady estimated they returned to the building after 5 minutes, but that could easily also have been 7 minutes. That's when Adams saw Shelley and Lovelady.

This way the entire timeline fits and nobody needs to lie to the investigators, like they would have had to do in your foolish version of the events.

[Martin Weidmann]

There was no official reenactment. That doesn't mean it can't be approximated using the same distances on another separate building though.

Exactly, which is why you should go back to my reply 626 (page 63) where I do exactly that. Have an honest look at that and tell me (if you disagree) what I did wrong. I bet you can't!

What you need to be asking yourself is, why they left out Adams and Styles during the official reenactment.

[Martin Weidmann]

Adams is absolutely insistent and consistent on one point in every statement she ever made concerning her actions that day - she started heading for the stairs within seconds of the final shot and she was running. This is corroborated by subsequent statements made by both Styles and Garner. She is also consistent in saying she saw no-one on the stairs.
We know from the Couch and Darnell films Shelley and Lovelady were out front of the TSBD when Baker reached the foot of the steps outside the front entrance.
If we accept this evidence we must come to the conclusion that Adams could not possibly have seen Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor. It's impossible.
So we are left with two main possibilities - Adams lied about seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor or this part of her WC testimony was added without her knowledge.
Lets look at motives. Why would Adams lie about this detail? I have no idea why she might do this but would be glad to hear some wild speculation about it. Why would the WC lie about this detail? I think that's obvious - to make it appear that Adams and Styles could not have been on the stairs at the same time as Oswald.
When Garner reached her office door Adams and Styles were already clattering down the 'very noisy' wooden stairs, she heard them clearly. She then moved closer to the area of the stairs where she would have and unobstructed view of anyone opening the door of the stairs coming down from the fifth floor and crossing the floor to go down the stairs to the third. More importantly, she would have heard anyone coming down. She was there moments later when Baker came up those same stairs. Oswald never came down those stairs. Adams never saw Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor. Of these things we can be certain.

If we accept this evidence we must come to the conclusion that Adams could not possibly have seen Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor. It's impossible.
So we are left with two main possibilities - Adams lied about seeing Shelley and Lovelady on the first floor or this part of her WC testimony was added without her knowledge. 

There actually is a third option. She saw Shelley and Lovelady, not when she came off the stairs (because they weren't there), but instead when she reentered the building between 5 to 7 minutes later, when both men were indeed also in the shipping area. She saw them but got confused about when exactly she saw them.
Let's not forget that the first mention of her seeing Shelley and Lovelady was in Jim Leavelle's report of 02/07/64. Several months later... it's easy to get confused about a 5 - 7 minute time difference.

[Gerry Down]

Exactly, which is why you should go back to my reply 626 (page 63) where I do exactly that. Have an honest look at that and tell me (if you disagree) what I did wrong. I bet you can't!

Your timeline has Adams and Styles running down the stairs at lighting speed and out the back door before Truly and Baker come in. That is possible in my opinion and they just got out the back door before Baker and Truly saw them. That puts Adams and Styles at the loading dock at about 12:31. From here Adams said she ran around the west side of the building, went to the front door, listened to a motorcycle radio and then went inside. If she ran out the rear door at 12:31, you have the problem of her claiming to run around the building but the timeline allows too much time - 6 minutes to do that. Something is off on her recollection of time.

What you need to be asking yourself is, why they left out Adams and Styles during the official reenactment.

They didn't get her to do a reenactment because they knew she had stayed at the window longer than she remembered. And if they left her do a reenactment of running from the window immediately, it would be misleading reenactment.

[Martin Weidmann]

Your timeline has Adams and Styles running down the stairs at lighting speed and out the back door before Truly and Baker come in. That is possible in my opinion and they just got out the back door before Baker and Truly saw them. That puts Adams and Styles at the loading dock at about 12:31. From here Adams said she ran around the west side of the building, went to the front door, listened to a motorcycle radio and then went inside. If she ran out the rear door at 12:31, you have the problem of her claiming to run around the building but the timeline allows too much time - 6 minutes to do that. Something is off on her recollection of time.

They didn't get her to do a reenactment because they knew she had stayed at the window longer than she remembered. And if they left her do a reenactment of running from the window immediately, it would be a false reenactment. Better to have no reenactment rather than a false reenactment.

From here Adams said she ran around the west side of the building, went to the front door, listened to a motorcycle radio and then went inside.

Again, you skip the railway yard;

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
Mr. BELIN - That would be on this same diagram? It is marked Houston Street dock, and you went through what would be the north door, which is towards the rear of the first floor, is that correct?
And down some stairs towards the rear of the dock?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go from there?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded--which way is east and west?
Mr. BELIN - East is here. East is towards Houston, and west is towards the railroad tracks. You went east or west? Towards the railroad tracks or towards Houston Street?
Miss ADAMS - I went west towards the tracks.
Mr. BELIN - How far west did you go?
Miss ADAMS - I went approximately 2 yards within the tracks and there was an officer standing there, and he said, "Get back to the building." And I said, "But I work here."
And he said, "That is tough, get back." I said, "Well, was the President shot?" And he said, "I don't know. Go back." And I said, "All right."
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I went back, only I went southwest.
Mr. BELIN - Well, did you come back by way of the street, or did you come back the same entrance you went out?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - You went back in through the front entrance, through the front of the building?
Miss ADAMS - Well, I didn't go back in right away.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then? There is a street that would be a continuation of Elm Street that goes in front of the building, and Elm Street itself angles into the freeway. Did you go back either of those streets?

Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir. I went by the one directly in front of the building.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got there?
Miss ADAMS - When I got there, I happened to look around and noticed several of the employees, and I noticed Joe Molina, for one, was standing in front of the building, and also Avery Davis, who works with me, and I said, "What do you think has happened?"
And she said, "I don't know."
And I said, "I want to find out." I think the President is shot.
There was a motorcycle that was parked on the corner of Houston and Elm directly in front of the east end of the building, and I paused-there to listen to the report on the police radio, and they said that shots had been fired which apparently came either from the second floor or the fourth floor window, and so I panicked, as I was at the only open window on the fourth floor.

If she ran out the rear door at 12:31, you have the problem of her claiming to run around the building but the timeline allows too much time - 6 minutes to do that.

Nope.. that is not too much time.... She first had to go to the other side of the loading platform (near Houston street) to get off the platform, because that's where the only stairs are. She then had to walk back and pass the entire building again in the direction of the railway yard, where she got stopped by police. That could easily have taken 3 minutes or so. She then had to walk passed the side of the building towards the front and then walk all the way up to the front door. She also talked briefly with some co-workers. That also could easily have taken 3 tot 4 minutes. There is nothing wrong with the time line.

They didn't get her to do a reenactment because they knew she had stayed at the window longer than she remembered. And if they left her do a reenactment of running from the window immediately, it would be a false reenactment. Better to have no reenactment rather than a false reenactment.

Actually, no they didn't know that at all. There was no such information available to the WC. The re-enactment was done prior to the testimony of Marion Baker and Victoria Adams. Which begs the question, if they did not want her in the re-enactment, because she had nothing of evidentiary value to offer, then why did they call her to testify at all?