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Author Topic: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?  (Read 9887 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #280 on: April 08, 2020, 09:05:48 PM »
I am referring to the pieces of evidence labeled Q1 (the stretcher bullet), Q2 and Q3 (the nose and tail of another bullet) by Special Agent Robert A. Frazier of the FBI/BuLAb. According to him, the chain of custody for these items was intact, as he told Counsel Specter during his examination.

Frazier got them from Special Agent Orrin Bartlett.  How they got to Bartlett is not documented in any way by the people who allegedly found them, or Bartlett.

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One must be careful not to revert to the old "there's-no-proper-chain-of-custody" ploy too often. Q2 and Q3 were recovered by Federal Agents.

Not true.  One of them was allegedly recovered by a Navy corpsman. What was he doing messing with a crime scene before the FBI arrived?

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Q1 was discovered on a stretcher by a civilian, who handed it over to another civilian. After that, the "pristine bullet" was in the possession of Federal Agents and transferred to BuLab. The two civilians are known by name. So the chain if custody is intact, as far as I can tell.

The "another civilian" said that the bullet he handled was pointed.  But I'm not sure what difference it makes whether CE399 was really the bullet that Tomlinson found, since it doesn't in fact prove anything about the assassination.

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Yes. A FBI envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122) dated 12/2/1963 was released in 1995 by the Assassinations Record Review Board. It had the following label: "7.65 shell found in Dealey Plaza on 12/02/1963. Determined of no value and destroyed."

This is intriuging as the Mauser supposedly found in the TSBD was of the same caliber. But the Bureau determined that the shell had "no value" and destroyed it. Why? Could it be that it had no relation to the assassination?

Why would the FBI ever destroy evidence found in Dealey Plaza only 10 days after the assassination.  Could it be because it didn't fit with the predetermined narrative?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #281 on: April 08, 2020, 10:43:35 PM »
Still an idiot I see. Who is denying that the Alyea film doesn't show a Mauser dumbass? Where is the footage of Fritz handing the rifle to Weitzman, him examining it and declaring it a Mauser, then Fritz taking it from him and asking him to go home?

After submitting his sworn affidavit, Weitzman realized that the Mauser was not the same rifle captured on film and that the 6.5mm hulls did not match the rifle. Ding ding ding! That's the sound inside your head after you extract it from your dumbass. That was the moment that Weitzman KNEW he was dealing with a conspiracy and he had to do some serious backtracking. So it all became a misunderstanding. He must have been thinking about a Mauser that he was holding at some other time, some other day. So of course his story changed as did Craig's story. However, Craig took way more risk as a whistle blower than Weitzman did.

All you seem to know is that you are a self appointed expert who thinks he has positively identified that a Carcano was portrayed on the Alyea film. Even if you are right, you know jack shit re the sequence of the filming and whether Alyea was directed to film whatever Fritz allowed him to film or whether Fritz pulled a rifle switcheroo before Alyea filmed anything. Why did Fritz ask Craig and Weitzman to leave before the rifle "discovery" was filmed? You have no fricken idea how it all went down. So stop pretending like you do. No one is 100% certain about anything, especially YOU.

There might not have been a Mauser found on the 6th floor and Weitzman and Craig might have lied and/or been mistaken. But YOU sure as hell don't know that just because you think you can ID the Carcano on the Alyea film. You're worse than the WC defenders. At least they aren't quite as arrogant and insulting when they are FOS. Extract your head, sucker.

Who is denying that the Alyea film doesn't show a Mauser

So you acknowledge that the Alyea flm shows that Day picked up a Mannlicher Carcano and many photos show Day carrying a Mannlicher Carcano from the building....Well that's a start.

Where is the footage of Fritz handing the rifle to Weitzman,
Who said that there was anybody with a video camera at the police station later that afternoon when Weitzman was summoned to be interviewed by FBI agent A1bert Sawyer.??    Do you have any evidence that Weitzman was filmed as he examined that 7.65 Mauser that Fritz had handed him?


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #282 on: April 08, 2020, 10:49:21 PM »
Where is the footage of Fritz handing the rifle to Weitzman, him examining it and declaring it a Mauser, then Fritz taking it from him and asking him to go home?

It exists only in your imagination .....

What bunch of imbeciles!!..... None is so blind as he who will not see......

Are you literate  enough to understand the testimony below?
Mr. WEITZMAN - That is correct, Boone and I, and as he was looking over the rear section of the building, I would say the northwest corner, I was on the floor looking under the flat at the same time he was looking on the top side and we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said, "There it is" and he started hollering, "We got it." It was covered with boxes. It was well protected as far as the naked eye because I would venture to say eight or nine of us stumbled over that gun a couple times before we thoroughly searched the building.
Mr. BALL - Did you touch it?
Mr. WEITZMAN - No, sir; we made a man-tight barricade until the crime lab came up and removed the gun itself.
Mr. BALL - The crime lab from the Dallas Police Department?
Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Lieutenant Day and Captain Fritz?
Mr. WEITZMAN - I'm not sure what the lieutenant's name was, but I remember Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL - Did you see Captain Fritz remove anything from the gun?
Mr. WEITZMAN - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BALL - What did you do after that?
Mr. WEITZMAN - After that, I returned to my office and I was called down to the city that afternoon later to make a statement on what I had seen.

Did you not even read my post dumbass? Was this interview conducted before or after he realized this was a conspiracy? What would your testimony be if you did actually see a Mauser then realized you were being caught up in a conspiracy, besides crapping your pants?  You'd claim that you were the biggest dumbass on the planet for thinking it was a Mauser, let alone submitting a sworn affidavit to that effect. Are you suggesting that Weitzman's affidavit came AFTER his interview?

Do you finally get it? Didn't think so.

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #283 on: April 08, 2020, 11:00:31 PM »
Who is denying that the Alyea film doesn't show a Mauser

So you acknowledge that the Alyea flm shows that Day picked up a Mannlicher Carcano and many photos show Day carrying a Mannlicher Carcano from the building....Well that's a start.

Your problem is that's the ONLY thing you are focused on. This all stems from your superiority complex when it comes to rifles and your assumption that everyone else is a moron who wouldn't know a MC if it bit them in the arse. I don't recall anyone claiming the rifle shown in the Alyea film was a Mauser.

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Where is the footage of Fritz handing the rifle to Weitzman,
Who said that there was anybody with a video camera at the police station later that afternoon when Weitzman was summoned to be interviewed by FBI agent A1bert Sawyer.??    Do you have any evidence that Weitzman was filmed as he examined that 7.65 Mauser that Fritz had handed him?

By the time Weitzman was interviewed he was singing a different tune. Getting caught up in a coup d'etat will do that to you.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 05:05:23 AM by Jack Trojan »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #284 on: April 08, 2020, 11:07:13 PM »
Did you not even read my post dumbass? Was this interview conducted before or after he realized this was a conspiracy? What would your testimony be if you did actually see a Mauser then realized you were being caught up in a conspiracy, besides crapping your pants?  You'd claim that you were the biggest dumbass on the planet for thinking it was a Mauser, let alone submitting a sworn affidavit to that effect. Are you suggesting that Weitzman's affidavit came AFTER his interview?

Do you finally get it? Didn't think so.

What would your testimony be if you did actually see a Mauser then realized you were being caught up in a conspiracy,

But Weitzman was very clear that  he caught only a glimpse of the rifle , ( and photos clearly show was a carcano)    Later he realized that he was mistaken in his initial assumption.   And I seriously doubt that Weitzman realized that he was caught up in a conspiracy as early as Friday ..... 

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #285 on: April 08, 2020, 11:15:11 PM »
What would your testimony be if you did actually see a Mauser then realized you were being caught up in a conspiracy,

But Weitzman was very clear that  he caught only a glimpse of the rifle , ( and photos clearly show was a carcano)    Later he realized that he was mistaken in his initial assumption.   And I seriously doubt that Weitzman realized that he was caught up in a conspiracy as early as Friday .....

But Weitzman was very clear that  he caught only a glimpse of the rifle

Backtracking.

Later he realized that he was mistaken in his initial assumption.

Mistaken? Right.

And I seriously doubt that Weitzman realized that he was caught up in a conspiracy as early as Friday .....

Of course you're 100% certain....based on....his backtracking.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #286 on: April 08, 2020, 11:33:40 PM »
But Weitzman was very clear that  he caught only a glimpse of the rifle ,

And his detailed description belies that claim.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #287 on: April 09, 2020, 12:05:08 AM »
But Weitzman was very clear that  he caught only a glimpse of the rifle

Backtracking.

Later he realized that he was mistaken in his initial assumption.

Mistaken? Right.

And I seriously doubt that Weitzman realized that he was caught up in a conspiracy as early as Friday .....

Of course you're 100% certain....based on....his backtracking.

Who?? Who?   Thought that the ambush murder was a conspiracy by sundown on Friday?  Can you name one person?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #288 on: April 09, 2020, 12:28:19 AM »
And his detailed description belies that claim.

his detailed description belies that claim.

That detailed description is from FBI agent A1bert Sawyer's report  which Weitzman gave later that afternoon.....Since Sawyer worked out of the Houston FBI office, I'm not sure that FBI agent Sawyer was in Dallas when Weitzman left the TSBD after seeing Detective Day pick up the rifle from the floor.

Offline Mitch Todd

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Re: Shells, rifle, SN... Who?
« Reply #289 on: April 09, 2020, 12:43:14 AM »
"The second requires that you have someone who not only knows the difference between the two rifles, and is in a position to be able to clearly see said markings"

If the markings on the rifle are observable why do they need to know the difference? They brought their own lights to do the search so visibility wouldn't have been a problem.
Who said they would have been observable under the circumstances? More importantly, who said they observed said markings? No one.

"Anyway, in order to tell the difference between a Mauser '91 and a Carcano, you have to know what they look like. Where did Boone say that he knew what they look like?"

You tell me. It's only an issue if you're a WC apologist and need Boone and Weitzman to misidentify the TSBD Carcano as a Mauser to explain the affidavit and investigation reports they filed saying they found a mauser.
The model '91 comes up because it looks the most like the Carcano and they would have to have some knowledge of it to mistake one for the other.
You have it backwards. If you want to say that Boone and Fritz saw the receiver inscription and the bare metal where the crest was ground off, then you need to show that they saw such things. Good luck with that.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 01:10:41 PM by Mitch Todd »

 

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