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Author Topic: Dallas Police Crime Lab  (Read 1066 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 09:02:46 PM »
If they had Ozzie's print on the murder weapon on the 22nd why is JEH telling the POTUS on the 23rd that the case against LHO isn't strong enough to get a conviction?


"JFK First Day Evidence" by Gary Savage, page 110:

Lieutenant Day believed at the time that he had not completely obliterated the palm print on the barrel after his lift and later stated that he had pointed out the area of the palm print to FBI Agent Drain when turning the rifle over to him. Drain, on the other hand, did not recall being shown the palm print.

Rusty was standing by as Lieutenant Day gave the rifle to Drain. Rusty told me that Drain was in a hurry to leave and was distracted by another FBI agent who was hurrying him to leave. According to Rusty, "Drain was half listening to Lieutenant Day and half to the other FBI man and evidently didn't get the word about the palm print at that time."


The above is a quote by Rusty Livingston (who was right there at the time the rifle was turned over to the FBI).   8)

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 09:02:46 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2019, 09:10:42 PM »
Because Day "forgot" to tell the FBI about the magic partial palmprint.


"JFK First Day Evidence" by Gary Savage, page 110:

Lieutenant Day believed at the time that he had not completely obliterated the palm print on the barrel after his lift and later stated that he had pointed out the area of the palm print to FBI Agent Drain when turning the rifle over to him. Drain, on the other hand, did not recall being shown the palm print.

Rusty was standing by as Lieutenant Day gave the rifle to Drain. Rusty told me that Drain was in a hurry to leave and was distracted by another FBI agent who was hurrying him to leave. According to Rusty, "Drain was half listening to Lieutenant Day and half to the other FBI man and evidently didn't get the word about the palm print at that time."


The above is a quote by Rusty Livingston (who was right there at the time the rifle was turned over to the FBI).   8)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 09:15:37 PM »
I am sure that Lieutenant Day, who was in charge of the Crime Lab, dusted the rifle that was found on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository, and lifted a partial palm print off the underside of the barrel after the rifle was taken apart. They had the actual print there in the office that night [11/22/63]. I compared it myself with Oswald's palm print, and it looked to me like there was enough there to say yes, it was Oswald's palm print."

Yes, Lt Day did dust the rifle for prints.  We have the Tom Alye's video of Lt Day dusting the rifle by the sunlit window in the NW corner of the sixth floor of the TSBD.....    And we know that Day found some prints ( or what he thought was a print) because Alyea saw him lift the print with cellophane tape.   ( Alyea said he filmed Day as he lifted the print and placed it on a small white card)

Savage says ...."I compared it myself with Oswald's palm print, and it looked to me like there was enough there to say yes, it was Oswald's palm print."

Really??!!....  A palm print allegedly lifted from a 5/8 inch diameter barrel ( the size of a AA penlight battery) ....  A print on a metal tube of 5/8 " would not be identifiable by an amateur or for that matter probably not even a trained finger print man.    However I don't doubt that Savage really believes that he saw the print that Day said he found on that small diameter barrel....  But IMO what Savage saw (and what we've all seen ) is Lee Oswald's print that was lifted from a FLAT SURFACE and placed on that small white card.   The print on the card shows no sign of distortion that would be apparent if the print had been lifted from a small round surface.    We know that the print covers about 3/4 of an inch of the 1 inch wide cellophane tape ....3/4 of an inch would be nearly half way around the barrel of the carcano.   How could any person deposit a palm print on the small round tube without distorting the print ???


Savage says ...."I compared it myself with Oswald's palm print, and it looked to me like there was enough there to say yes, it was Oswald's palm print."

Wake up there Walt! Go back and read it again. Savage didn't say that, Rusty Livingston (DPD Crime Lab Detective) said that.

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2019, 09:15:37 PM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2019, 09:25:10 PM »
The words of DPD Crime Lab Detective R.W. (Rusty) Livingston:

"JFK First Day Evidence" by Gary Savage, pages 77-78

"... I am sure that Lieutenant Day, who was in charge of the Crime Lab, dusted the rifle that was found on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository, and lifted a partial palm print off the underside of the barrel after the rifle was taken apart. They had the actual print there in the office that night [11/22/63]. I compared it myself with Oswald's palm print, and it looked to me like there was enough there to say yes, it was Oswald's palm print." ... "That happened all the time," he told me. "After we had made a comparison and felt as though we had a match, if someone else was in the office, they'd usually take a look too and help to verify the match."

Additional words by Gary Savage (pages 79-80):

...Today some assassination researchers do not believe that Lieutenant Day actually did lift the palm print of Oswald frim the rifle. He did, however, and most, if not all, other Crime Lab Officers saw and compared the palm print themselves, including Rusty, Pete Barnes, H. R. Williams, and Bobby Brown. Ample opportunity to compare the palm print lifted from the rifle existed since it remained in the Crime Lab Office for several days, and each officer recalled the lift and had no doubt that it was Oswald's.

Bobby Brown told Rusty and me that he remembered looking at the palm print lifted by Lieutenant Day. He stated that there was no doubt that it was Oswald's palm print and said he looked at the palm print the day after the shooting. His scheduled hours for work on Saturday were from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. Brown said that he didn't come in on the day of the assassination.




Does anyone here know of any words (quotations or otherwise) by any of the Dallas Police Crime Lab officers that would either confirm or contradict this?

Thanks Charles, the rifle had to touch Oswald's palm to leave a print and considering that Oswald wasn't accessible after a few days, the stupid conspiracy theory that the palmprint "magically" turned up a week later is only endorsed by the extremely desperate.

The FBI confirmed that Day's print had to have come from the rifle.



This high res image of Day's print shows the random points that were used in matching the rifle prints.



JohnM


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 09:27:20 PM »

Savage says ...."I compared it myself with Oswald's palm print, and it looked to me like there was enough there to say yes, it was Oswald's palm print."

Wake up there Walt! Go back and read it again. Savage didn't say that, Rusty Livingston (DPD Crime Lab Detective) said that.

I made the mistake of replying to Walt and discovered just how dishonest he really is, it's best to keep away.

JohnM

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 09:27:20 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 11:09:23 PM »
I made the mistake of replying to Walt and discovered just how dishonest he really is, it's best to keep away.

JohnM

Great!.... I have no desire to have any contact with you Mytton.... 

PS  I can't possibly unseat you as the forums most dishonest cretin......

« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 12:35:04 AM by Walt Cakebread »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 05:47:23 AM »
Rusty was standing by as Lieutenant Day gave the rifle to Drain. Rusty told me that Drain was in a hurry to leave and was distracted by another FBI agent who was hurrying him to leave. According to Rusty, "Drain was half listening to Lieutenant Day and half to the other FBI man and evidently didn't get the word about the palm print at that time."

Well, Livingston was loyal — I’ll give him that. Unfortunately it’s revisionist history from 30 years later.

CE 3145, p. 7:

“Lt. DAY related on that night he told only two people that he had made the tentative identification of the palm print obtained off the underside of the rifle barrel with that of the known palm print of LEE HARVEY OSWALD. Lt. DAY stated these two individuals were Chief of Police JESSE E. CURRY of the Dallas Police Department and Homicide Captain WILL FR1TZ of the Dallas Police Department.”

By the way, both Curry and Fritz were stating publicly on 11/23 and 11/24 that they had no prints on the rifle. Day also refused to sign a statement about his alleged lifting of the print from the rifle.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 05:56:26 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 05:47:23 AM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 05:53:03 AM »
The FBI confirmed that Day's print had to have come from the rifle.

“Had to have”. LOL.

Let’s see the analysis.

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This high res image of Day's print shows the random points that were used in matching the rifle prints.

What “rifle prints”?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 05:54:01 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2019, 05:53:03 AM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2019, 07:49:57 AM »
“Had to have”. LOL.

Let’s see the analysis.

What “rifle prints”?

Quote
“Had to have”. LOL.

Wow, "LOL" is such a witty response, I'm absolutely shattered.

Quote
Let’s see the analysis.

No worries.




JohnM




« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:30:14 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 09:22:56 AM »
Well, Livingston was loyal — I’ll give him that. Unfortunately it’s revisionist history from 30 years later.

CE 3145, p. 7:

“Lt. DAY related on that night he told only two people that he had made the tentative identification of the palm print obtained off the underside of the rifle barrel with that of the known palm print of LEE HARVEY OSWALD. Lt. DAY stated these two individuals were Chief of Police JESSE E. CURRY of the Dallas Police Department and Homicide Captain WILL FR1TZ of the Dallas Police Department.”


You're trying to hard Iacoletti, all of the above can be true, Day was still releasing evidence to Drain at 11:45 PM and it's possible that Day gathered the rifle and gave C2766 to Drain a little after midnight which means that Day was not lying when he said that he only told Fritz and Curry about the palm print on that night and then on the next day he told Drain about the rifle, and Livingston obviously heard what was being said to Drain, so everyone is clean, job done!

Mr. BELIN. What did you do with Commission Exhibit 677?
Mr. DAY. I released this, I released 677 to Vince Drain of the FBI, 11:45 p.m., November 22, 1963.


Quote
Day also refused to sign a statement about his alleged lifting of the print from the rifle.

Cite?

JohnM
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:41:39 AM by John Mytton »

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Re: Dallas Police Crime Lab
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2019, 09:22:56 AM »

 

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