The "Domino Room Alibi"

[Walt Cakebread]

Mr. Williams. It was after I had left the sixth floor., after I had eaten the Chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken
sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was.

Mr. Ball. Approximately what time was it?

Mr. Williams. Approximately 12:20, maybe.

Witnesses saw armed men in the window of the SN and on the west end windows at about this time. Which is about the time
JFK's motorcade was supposed to have gone by the TSBD. It was late. Where was Oswald?

90 seconds after the last shot he was seen in 2nd floor lunchroom by Baker and Truly. Yet photos taken by Dillard
(30 sec. after last shot) and Powell (App. 2 minutes after the last shot) show someone was moving boxes in the SN.

90 seconds after the last shot he was seen in 2nd floor lunchroom by Baker and Truly. Yet photos taken by Dillard
(30 sec. after last shot) and Powell (App. 2 minutes after the last shot) show someone was moving boxes in the SN.

Let's examine the chronology....Dillard supposedly snapped his photo about 30 seconds after the last shot was fired...

The Warren Commission said that Lee Oswald was seen in the second floor lunchroom by DPD officer Marrion Baker less that 90 seconds after the shooting .

The boxes were allegedly moved sometime AFTER Tom Dillard snapped the photo which they said was taken 30 seconds after the shooting....So if LHO was the shooter and he was moving boxes around, then he couldn't have departed for the lunchroom immediately after the shooting and he would have had less than 60 seconds to reach the lunchroom ahead of Baker and Truly...  And that would have been impossible!

I believe that Powell took the first photo a few minutes before the shooting....and the man with the rifle bumped the light weight Rolling Readers box and displaced it AFTER Powell had snapped his photo....Then a few minutes later when Dillard took his photo the box was not in the same position as it had been when Powell snapped shutter.   

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

As I said earlier, the total time to do all that would have probably been less than 3 minutes. Maybe even less than that if Oswald moved at a good rapid pace. But, just like with LHO's trip from the 6th floor to the lunchroom after the shooting, to hear a CTer tell it, such a simple journey from the sixth floor to the first floor and back was Mission Impossible.

You are right, Oswald was so fast that the human eye could not see him from the time in the Domino room to the time Baker sees him. He was so fast no one else ever saw him, I mean, so fast that his feet never touched the ground to make noise to be heard.  Or did he have this special power? After all, the TV show debut was the very next year. Connection? Watch very closely, this very cool

[Martin Weidmann]

Sorry for the delay, Martin....

There are numerous possibilities here:

1. Oswald could have just simply guessed (correctly) when he said to Fritz he had seen Jarman & Norman on the 1st floor. After all, we know for a fact that both Jarman and Norman DID see (and talk to) Oswald a little earlier in the morning on the first floor. So Lee knew that both men did come to work that day. And there weren't THAT many warehouse workers to choose from (via a "wild guess" scenario). And maybe Oswald had seen Jarman & Norman together on previous days and assumed they hung out together. ~shrug~

2. Oswald could have actually been in the Domino Room shortly before 12:30 and could have physically seen J&N. (I don't think this is the correct solution, but I can't entirely discount it either.)

And how about this possibility....

3. I'm wondering if it's just remotely possible (due to the open windows on both the 5th and 6th floors) that Oswald could have leaned out of his SN window, looked down toward the fifth floor, and caught a glimpse of Jarman & Norman leaning out of their respective windows below him? (Granted, this is probably not a likely solution---especially since Oswald would not likely want to "advertise" his presence in the Sniper's Nest by leaning out of his window---but can it be ruled out entirely?) ~additional shrug~

More food for thought anyway.

1.Oswald could have just simply guessed (correctly) when he said to Fritz he had seen Jarman & Norman on the 1st floor. After all, we know for a fact that both Jarman and Norman DID see (and talk to) Oswald a little earlier in the morning on the first floor. So Lee knew that both men did come to work that day. And there weren't THAT many warehouse workers to choose from (via a "wild guess" scenario). And maybe Oswald had seen Jarman & Norman together on previous days and assumed they hung out together. ~shrug~

Yes, I suppose Oswald could have simply guessed, but it wasn't a matter of just saying he had seen Jarman and Norman on the first floor. If he intended to establish an alibi, his guess would have had to have been far more precise than that. To give such a guess any credibility, the scope would have to have been far more narrow, as seeing Jarman and Norman on the first floor at any time other than minutes prior to the shots would not have been much of an alibi at all. So, the guess would have to include the correct persons seen at the correct location and at the correct time..... that would be some guess, right?


2.Oswald could have actually been in the Domino Room shortly before 12:30 and could have physically seen J&N. (I don't think this is the correct solution, but I can't entirely discount it either.)

This seems the most logical and likely scenario for me. It doesn't make sense for Oswald to try to establish some sort of alibi by telling his interrogators a story which could easily be dismissed, if not true. Oswald clearly intended to place himself at a location which he had seen Norman and Jarman pass by just minutes prior to the shots. That, IMO, was the intended alibi instead of that Norman and/or Jarman had seen him. All the latter two really needed to be asked was if they passed by the Domino room minutes prior to the shots. No need for them to see Oswald, just confirmation that they were there where Oswald said he saw them would have sufficed.

Unfortunately Jarman and Normad were (IMO) asked the wrong questions about having eaten lunch with Oswald or even seeing him.

Having said this, I would be interested in why you feel this is not the correct solution, David?

[David Von Pein]

Oswald clearly intended to place himself at a location which he had seen Norman and Jarman pass by just minutes prior to the shots. That, IMO, was the intended alibi instead of that Norman and/or Jarman had seen him. All the latter two really needed to be asked was if they passed by the Domino room minutes prior to the shots. No need for them to see Oswald, just confirmation that they were there where Oswald said he saw them would have sufficed.

Unfortunately Jarman and Norman were (IMO) asked the wrong questions about having eaten lunch with Oswald or even seeing him.

Having said this, I would be interested in why you feel this is not the correct solution, David?

You could very well be right. Perhaps that is the correct solution.

But, as discussed earlier, it still does not provide Oswald with an alibi for precisely 12:30 PM.

[Thomas Graves]

You could very well be right. Perhaps that is the correct solution.

But, as discussed earlier, it still does not provide Oswald with an alibi for precisely 12:30 PM.

Especially if he already had the rifle locked, loaded and stashed up there near the nest.

But, then again, why wouldn't he have been up there from about 12:05 on, waiting for the delayed motorcade to arrive?

The Wikipedia article I posted said the motorcade was scheduled to arrive at Dealey Plaza at 12:10 ...

--  MWT   

[Colin Crow]

You could very well be right. Perhaps that is the correct solution.

But, as discussed earlier, it still does not provide Oswald with an alibi for precisely 12:30 PM.

Perhaps you could provide your understanding of Oswald's movements after the Piper interaction about noon. I take it you believe Oswald was the man with the rifle Rowland saw at 12.15pm. We then know the assembly of the rifle occurred before this time. Do you believe Givens "cigarette story"? If so, when did this occur? I assume prior to BRW's arrival on the 6th floor. Prior to Piper's sighting or after? At 12.15 where was BRW? At what time approximately did Oswald finally enter the SN? If he did see Jarman and Norman pass the domino room on their way to the 5th floor, I assume he used the stairs to get to the 6th floor.....right?

[Martin Weidmann]

You could very well be right. Perhaps that is the correct solution.

But, as discussed earlier, it still does not provide Oswald with an alibi for precisely 12:30 PM.

I have already agreed that Oswald could have made it to the 6th floor in roughly the same time Jarman and Norman needed to reach the 5th.

However I also did raise some points which make it at least somewhat unlikely that Oswald would have made it to the 6th floor with merely minutes, perhaps even seconds, to spare to see a motorcade pass by which was some 15 minutes late. If this is the scenario you wish to go by, you need to explain the observations made by several witnesses who saw movements in the 6th floor window well before Oswald (in this scenario) could have gotten there.

Having said that, I still would be interested to hear from you why you feel this is not the correct solution, David?