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Author Topic: Where Were Jane Berry, Betty Thornton and Peggy Burney During the Motorcade?  (Read 6297 times)

Online John Iacoletti

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Here's where Tommy just declares that "with" must mean standing side-by-side for the entire duration of the motorcade and even several minutes afterwards.

Because.....well, because he said so.

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Online Thomas Graves

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Here's where Tommy just declares that "with" must mean standing side-by-side for the entire duration of the motorcade and even several minutes afterwards.



What you're really saying is that all seven of those gals played fast-and-loose, syntactically speaking, with the FBI in their signed statements.

Your insinuating that only serves to highlight the ludicrousness of your "position" on Calvery.

You must be really desperate to "prevent" Gloria Calvery's getting to the TSBD steps within 25 seconds after the final shot, as depicted in Darnell.

Why is that, John?

Are you afraid that that would somehow implicate Oswald in the assassination of JFK?

--  MWT  ;)

PS  Have you actually read Karen Westbrook's FBI statement?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 11:05:19 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online John Iacoletti

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What you're really saying is that all seven of those gals played fast-and-loose, syntactically speaking, with the FBI in their signed statements.

Calvery, Hicks, Reed, and Westbrook's statements are almost word for word identical, or hadn't you noticed?.  Do you really think they wrote them independently?

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You must be really desperate to "prevent" Gloria Calvery's getting to the TSBD steps within 25 seconds after the final shot, as depicted in Darnell.

You don't know that Calvery climbed the steps after the final shot, or when, or how long it took.  You're entering into Doyle fabrication territory now.  I'm not "desperate" for anything other than for you to start providing evidence for your declarations.  "Because I said so" is not evidence.  "I think I see a stripe" is not evidence.  "Looks like a darker complexion" is not evidence.

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Are you afraid that that would somehow implicate Oswald in the assassination of JFK?

The identification of Calvery has exactly nothing to do with Oswald's involvement or non-involvement.

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Online Thomas Graves

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Calvery, Hicks, Reed, and Westbrook's statements are almost word for word identical, or hadn't you noticed?.  Do you really think they wrote them independently?

Iacoletti,

What probably happened is that one of those four gals told the FBI guy what she did and who she was with, and the FBI guy or stenographer used that as a template for the other three gals' statements.

Regardless, they all signed off on their own individual statement, suggesting that each and every one of them agreed that the information in it was accurate to the best of their knowledge (I'm thinking about the "about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple-Underpass," here).

It's interesting that you're ascribing to each of those four gals lackadaisical (to the point of careless) useage of the word "with" (and "went", and "when", etc) in their statements in such an ab-normal, counter-intuitive way (given the serious context of having witnessed the assassination of an American president, and now giving a signed statement about same to the freakin' FBI), Iacolletti.

I guess what you're really suggesting is that Karan Hicks, for example, should have said, "Well I went with my three colleagues to a spot on the north side of Elm Street about half-way between Houston Street and the Triple-Underpass, but that's not actually where I was when President Kennedy was shot, because, well ... I kinda wandered off a bit just before that, and I guess I musta wandered so far away from them that I ended up even not being "caught" by anybody's camera, gosh darn it!"

--  MWT   :D

PS  Now that I've nailed you on this, wanna talk about the FBI statements of Jacob, Holt, and Simmons?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 11:06:36 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online John Iacoletti

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a) your assumed individuals are not only NOT halfway between Houston and the underpass, but the person Westbrook identified as herself is closer to the halfway point.

b) who are you to decide for other people you've never even met what is "abnormal and counter-intuitive"?

c) you don't actually know which of your backs-of-heads is or is not Karan Hicks either, so stop pretending like you know things you don't actually know.

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Online Thomas Graves

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a) your assumed individuals are not only NOT halfway between Houston and the underpass, but the person Westbrook identified as herself is closer to the halfway point.

b) who are you to decide for other people you've never even met what is "abnormal and counter-intuitive"?

c) you don't actually know which of your backs-of-heads is or is not Karan Hicks either, so stop pretending like you know things you don't actually know.

All seven of those gals in those two groups are so far off from being halfway between Houston Street and the Triple-Underpass, that your Westbrook's and Calvery's being about twenty feet closer to that mythological halfway point is meaningless in the context of figuring out who-is-who in the photos and films.

"Normal" is a statistical concept, Iacolletti.  Maybe you're at the far left side of the Bell-Shaped Curve in non-nerdish English language comprehension, and you just can't realize that when the vast majority of people say they "went" (on foot) with someone to a presidential parade, and that the were "with" that person when something happened there, that yes, it really does  mean they were standing (or sitting) virtually "shoulder-to-shoulder" with that person, or at least close enough to them as to make it possible to "catch" them "together" there in a photograph or film when that something that happened ... happened.

Where's Karan Hicks, Iacoletti?  Can you find her in any photos or films?

Where's Carol Reed?  Can you find her in any photos or films?

No???

Why do you suppose that is?

Do you really think lily-white Carol Reed's that black-haired, dark-complected gal on the left in your and Westbrook's three-gal group, or hey, maybe it's lily-white Karan Hicks, instead, and it was Carol Reed who went wandering off!!!

If you grudgingly accept that it's self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob (which it is) then you still have to explain how it is that Reed and Hicks were not "caught" in any photos or films, and why they both played so fast-and-loose with "with" in their FBI statements, and willfully misrepresented where they actually were, and whom they were "with," if anybody.


--  MWT   :D


« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 12:54:41 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Thomas Graves

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Moved here from another thread.

Quote from: John Iacoletti on July 10, 2019, 11:32:46 PM

...and you're identifying people fifty-six years after-the-fact, and from behind.  The difference is, she was actually there.

Now please stop hijacking every thread for your pet obsession.



Iacoletti,

Not only from behind, but with common sense, and with realizing, among other things, that Gloria Calvery was a very tall and large gal, indeed, and that the black-haired, dark-complected gal on the left in that group of three near the Stemmons sign in Zapruder must be self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob, and that the two gals to her right must be her colleagues Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons, not some two-woman permutation of the bogus Speth/Unger/Roberdeau "Calvary [sic], Hicks, Reed, Westbrook" matrix.

--  MWT   ;)

PS  It's funny that years ago, when I first got into this "Where's Gloria Calvery???" thing (and eventually discovered self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob and her two colleagues in the Zapruder film), "researchers" were already convinced that Robin Unger's "Gloria Calvary" (sic), was, based on the way she looked in the short Darnell clip, probably a Black woman, or in Unger's case, a Mexican.

Funny in that at least they realized that the three gals in that Darnell clip were the same three gals who are standing by the Stemmons sign in Zapruder, something that you still deny.

LOL

Wake Up, Neo

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Last Edit: Today at 01:09:08 AM by Thomas Graves
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 08:20:37 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Online John Iacoletti

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All seven of those gals in those two groups are so far off from being halfway between Houston Street and the Triple-Underpass, that your Westbrook's and Calvery's being about twenty feet closer to that mythological halfway point is meaningless in the context of figuring out who-is-who in the photos and films.

The statements are either meaningless for determining who is who or they are not.  Now let's discuss how both Simmons and Holt said they were standing on the South side of Elm Street.  While we're at it, let's talk about how Judy Marie Johnson said that she was "standing with" Holt, Jacob, Richey, Arnold, and Dragoo at the southwest corner of Elm and Houston.

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"Normal" is a statistical concept, Iacolletti.  Maybe you're at the far left side of the Bell-Shaped Curve in non-nerdish English language comprehension, and you just can't realize that when the vast majority of people say they "went" (on foot) with someone to a presidential parade, and that the were "with" that person when something happened there, that yes, it really does  mean they were standing (or sitting) virtually "shoulder-to-shoulder" with that person, or at least close enough to them as to make it possible to "catch" them "together" there in a photograph or film when that something that happened ... happened.

This is just a verbose way of saying "I want 'standing with' to mean 'shoulder to shoulder', therefore that's 'normal'".  Who are you to speak for the vast majority of people, much less for TSBD office workers you never met?

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Where's Karan Hicks, Iacoletti?  Can you find her in any photos or films?

Where's Carol Reed?  Can you find her in any photos or films?

No???

Why do you suppose that is?

Because I don't just bestow names upon heads in photos with no evidence like you do.

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Do you really think lily-white Carol Reed's that black-haired, dark-complected gal on the left in your and Westbrook's three-gal group, or hey, maybe it's lily-white Karan Hicks, instead, and it was Carol Reed who went wandering off!!!

"Lily white"...."dark complected".....LOL

Is this supposed to somehow show that Westbrook doesn't know who she is?  What even makes this a "three-gal group" as opposed to three people you're just picking out of a line of people and assuming they are together?

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If you grudgingly accept that it's self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob (which it is)

It's possible.  You certainly haven't proven it to any degree that approaches your certainty about it.

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then you still have to explain how it is that Reed and Hicks were not "caught" in any photos or films,

How do you know whether or not they were "caught" in any photos or films?

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and why they both played so fast-and-loose with "with" in their FBI statements,

Why, because you see yourself as the arbiter of what "with" means?

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and willfully misrepresented where they actually were, and whom they were "with," if anybody.

You mean like "on the South side of Elm street" or "at the southwest corner of Elm and Houston"?  Or is somebody only "willfully misrepresenting" things when you want them to be?

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Online John Iacoletti

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Not only from behind, but with common sense,

"common sense" as defined by what Tommy guesses.

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and with realizing, among other things, that Gloria Calvery was a very tall and large gal, indeed, and that the black-haired, dark-complected gal on the left in that group of three near the Stemmons sign in Zapruder must be self-described American Indian Stella Mae Jacob,

Even if she is a "dark-complected gal" (whatever the hell that means), why does it then follow that it "must be" Jacob?

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and that the two gals to her right must be her colleagues Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons,

and even if it is Jacob, why do the "two gals to her right" must be Holt and Simmons?

Online Thomas Graves

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"common sense" as defined by what Tommy guesses.

Even if she is a "dark-complected gal" (whatever the hell that means), why does it then follow that it "must be" Jacob?

and even if it is Jacob, why do the "two gals to her right" have to be Holt and Simmons?

Iacoletti,

Do you agree that Westbrook's "probably Carol Reed" gal on the left is back-haired and dark-complected?



If so, do you think she's Carol Reed, or maybe even Karan Hicks?

-- MWT  ;)

« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 03:59:36 AM by Thomas Graves »

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