Author Topic: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09  (Read 1448 times)

Offline James Hackerott

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I found Mrs Hester years ago but Sitzman only a few days ago. After the shots Skaggs crossed Houston street from NE corner of Main/Houston, took two photos of the knoll area from the north peristyle, trekked to the TUP to take a closeup of Haygood, and then made it to the upper knoll to take slide #09.

From an interview of Marilyn Sitzman by Josiah ?Tink? Thompson in 1966.
?Sitzman: Uh huh. And I got off the concrete slab we were standing on, and I ran down the hill, and I met some men from across the street, and I took it for granted that they were Secret Service or CIA or something like that; and they asked me what happened, and I said, "they killed him." And I walked back up the hill, and I talked to an FBI man up there that did identify himself to me, but I don't recall his name, and then I walked back behind the marble thing there, not behind it, but back inside.
Thompson: Inside the alcove.
Sitzman: And I looked out the back. Everybody was running back that way. Everybody ran up the hill and back and looked out that way.
Thompson: And where did they run? Did they run back into the railroad yard or into the parking lot?
Sitzman: Some ran ... I mean ... I finally got back up to the alcove. There was bunches of people just swarming back there, and I think almost everybody on that hill ran back up that way. ?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sitzman.htm
Soon she was back up to the pedestal where she stood during the assassination, interviewed by Bill Wiseman as filmed by Jimmy Darnell.


James

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2019, 05:45:22 AM »
I found Mrs Hester years ago but Sitzman only a few days ago. After the shots Skaggs crossed Houston street from NE corner of Main/Houston, took two photos of the knoll area from the north peristyle, trekked to the TUP to take a closeup of Haygood, and then made it to the upper knoll to take slide #09.

From an interview of Marilyn Sitzman by Josiah ?Tink? Thompson in 1966.
?Sitzman: Uh huh. And I got off the concrete slab we were standing on, and I ran down the hill, and I met some men from across the street, and I took it for granted that they were Secret Service or CIA or something like that; and they asked me what happened, and I said, "they killed him." And I walked back up the hill, and I talked to an FBI man up there that did identify himself to me, but I don't recall his name, and then I walked back behind the marble thing there, not behind it, but back inside.
Thompson: Inside the alcove.
Sitzman: And I looked out the back. Everybody was running back that way. Everybody ran up the hill and back and looked out that way.
Thompson: And where did they run? Did they run back into the railroad yard or into the parking lot?
Sitzman: Some ran ... I mean ... I finally got back up to the alcove. There was bunches of people just swarming back there, and I think almost everybody on that hill ran back up that way. ?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sitzman.htm
Soon she was back up to the pedestal where she stood during the assassination, interviewed by Bill Wiseman as filmed by Jimmy Darnell.

James

Nice work, James.

Does this give us a better idea of the time frame in which James Darnell filmed Stella Mae Joseph, Gloria Holt and Sharon Simmons on the Pergola Patio, as he looks as though he's getting ready to do in the Tina Towner film?

-- MWT   ;)


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2021, 10:38:44 PM »
I found Mrs Hester years ago but Sitzman only a few days ago. After the shots Skaggs crossed Houston street from NE corner of Main/Houston, took two photos of the knoll area from the north peristyle, trekked to the TUP to take a closeup of Haygood, and then made it to the upper knoll to take slide #09.

From an interview of Marilyn Sitzman by Josiah ?Tink? Thompson in 1966.
?Sitzman: Uh huh. And I got off the concrete slab we were standing on, and I ran down the hill, and I met some men from across the street, and I took it for granted that they were Secret Service or CIA or something like that; and they asked me what happened, and I said, "they killed him." And I walked back up the hill, and I talked to an FBI man up there that did identify himself to me, but I don't recall his name, and then I walked back behind the marble thing there, not behind it, but back inside.
Thompson: Inside the alcove.
Sitzman: And I looked out the back. Everybody was running back that way. Everybody ran up the hill and back and looked out that way.
Thompson: And where did they run? Did they run back into the railroad yard or into the parking lot?
Sitzman: Some ran ... I mean ... I finally got back up to the alcove. There was bunches of people just swarming back there, and I think almost everybody on that hill ran back up that way. ?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/sitzman.htm
Soon she was back up to the pedestal where she stood during the assassination, interviewed by Bill Wiseman as filmed by Jimmy Darnell.


James


James, is this the same as Mrs. Charles Hester? And do you think it could be the woman in the couple seen on the south side of Elm Street in (approximately) Zapruder frames Z373 through Z384? I have seen their affidavit and FBI statements but I don't see them located on the Don Roberdeau map. Please let us know. Thanks.

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2021, 05:53:42 PM »

James, is this the same as Mrs. Charles Hester? And do you think it could be the woman in the couple seen on the south side of Elm Street in (approximately) Zapruder frames Z373 through Z384? I have seen their affidavit and FBI statements but I don't see them located on the Don Roberdeau map. Please let us know. Thanks.

Charles, the woman I identified in the Skaggs #09 frame is Beatrice -Mrs. Charles Hester, with her sunglasses and bright green outfit. The woman of the couple at the west end of the infield grass was not wearing green, or sunglasses. I don't know if that couple has been identified. Someone (maybe R. Unger) located them in a Cancellare photo just as they were climbing the knoll. Mr. and Mrs. Franzen and son were standing maybe 15 feet or so the east of the couple. The Franzens gave various statements, IIRC. As for Roberdeau maps, I have a version (number unknown) showing “a couple seen in Cancellare running with crowd first to grassy knoll and pergola steps”



I do need to edit my original post where I indicated Skaggs captured a photo of Officer Haygood on the TUP. More recently, I realized that photo (Skaggs #08) was not taken at the TUP, but somewhere behind the fence in the parking area. I think somewhere near the “Badgeman Tree”. The SFM online collection description for this photo states the officer is “probably Clyde Haygood and three unidentified men”. To me, these men appear elevated, possibly standing on a truck bed. Comments on this are welcome, as always.
   
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/22058/image-of-police-officer-and-railyard-after-the-assassination?ctx=4d433612-a8df-4fbd-a21c-1a906c91f7e0&idx=5

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2021, 07:52:49 PM »
Charles, the woman I identified in the Skaggs #09 frame is Beatrice -Mrs. Charles Hester, with her sunglasses and bright green outfit. The woman of the couple at the west end of the infield grass was not wearing green, or sunglasses. I don't know if that couple has been identified. Someone (maybe R. Unger) located them in a Cancellare photo just as they were climbing the knoll. Mr. and Mrs. Franzen and son were standing maybe 15 feet or so the east of the couple. The Franzens gave various statements, IIRC. As for Roberdeau maps, I have a version (number unknown) showing “a couple seen in Cancellare running with crowd first to grassy knoll and pergola steps”



I do need to edit my original post where I indicated Skaggs captured a photo of Officer Haygood on the TUP. More recently, I realized that photo (Skaggs #08) was not taken at the TUP, but somewhere behind the fence in the parking area. I think somewhere near the “Badgeman Tree”. The SFM online collection description for this photo states the officer is “probably Clyde Haygood and three unidentified men”. To me, these men appear elevated, possibly standing on a truck bed. Comments on this are welcome, as always.
   
https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/22058/image-of-police-officer-and-railyard-after-the-assassination?ctx=4d433612-a8df-4fbd-a21c-1a906c91f7e0&idx=5



Thanks for the reply James. Here is what is written in a FBI report dated 11/25/63 (CE 1429):

CHARLES HESTER, 2610 Mayhold Street, furnished the following information:

At approximately 12:30 p.m., November 22, 1963, HESTER and his wife, BEATRICE, were standing along the street at the point immediately preceeding the underpass on Elm Street where President JOHN F. KENNEDY was shot. HESTER stated he saw the President slump in the seat of the car and that he heard two shots fired drom what appeared to be a building located on the corner of Elm Street and Houston Street. He Stated he and his wife were almost in a direct line of the fire and he immediately grabbed his wife and shoved her to the ground. He stated hethereafter immediately escorted his wife across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter.

HESTER stated he did not see anyone with a gun at the time the shots were fired and that after the President's car had pulled away from the scene and officers started toward the aforementioned building, he and his wife proceeded to their car and left the area.



I thought that the underlined sections seemed to me to fit the positions of the unnamed couple. And so I began a search here on this forum for more information on the Hesters.

Where were the Hesters located in the inset photo positioned in the bottom left of your montage? What photo is that from?

Thanks again!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 07:53:55 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2021, 09:53:55 PM »


Thanks for the reply James. Here is what is written in a FBI report dated 11/25/63 (CE 1429):

CHARLES HESTER, 2610 Mayhold Street, furnished the following information:

At approximately 12:30 p.m., November 22, 1963, HESTER and his wife, BEATRICE, were standing along the street at the point immediately preceeding the underpass on Elm Street where President JOHN F. KENNEDY was shot. HESTER stated he saw the President slump in the seat of the car and that he heard two shots fired drom what appeared to be a building located on the corner of Elm Street and Houston Street. He Stated he and his wife were almost in a direct line of the fire and he immediately grabbed his wife and shoved her to the ground. He stated hethereafter immediately escorted his wife across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter.

HESTER stated he did not see anyone with a gun at the time the shots were fired and that after the President's car had pulled away from the scene and officers started toward the aforementioned building, he and his wife proceeded to their car and left the area.



I thought that the underlined sections seemed to me to fit the positions of the unnamed couple. And so I began a search here on this forum for more information on the Hesters.

Where were the Hesters located in the inset photo positioned in the bottom left of your montage? What photo is that from?

Thanks again!
Charles, that lower left image is crop of the Wiegman frame.

 I will relate a knowledge of the identification of Beatrice Hester, but can't provide any proof. My wife's childhood best friend was visiting one day when my wife mentioned my interest in the Kennedy assassination. I'll call her “X”. X related her aunt was an assassination witness. I asked for her aunt's name and yes, Hester. She was the woman dressed in green. Beatrice was still living at the time but had no interest in discussing the topic with anyone, and I never pressed for more information. X did volunteer that Beatrice was married twice after marriage to Charles Hester. I have no doubt about her sincerity.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2021, 12:28:31 AM »
Charles, that lower left image is crop of the Wiegman frame.

 I will relate a knowledge of the identification of Beatrice Hester, but can't provide any proof. My wife's childhood best friend was visiting one day when my wife mentioned my interest in the Kennedy assassination. I'll call her “X”. X related her aunt was an assassination witness. I asked for her aunt's name and yes, Hester. She was the woman dressed in green. Beatrice was still living at the time but had no interest in discussing the topic with anyone, and I never pressed for more information. X did volunteer that Beatrice was married twice after marriage to Charles Hester. I have no doubt about her sincerity.


Interesting James. A website named Madison dot com has an Altgens photo in which they label the couple on the ground near Zapruder the Hesters. Here is a crop from that photo:





I don’t know any more than what I said in the earlier post. Both of the Hesters were interviewed the same day by the same FBI agents. It is conceivable that they could have gotten a detail or two wrong. But the FBI reports have them on the other side of Elm Street during the shooting. Do we know how long after the shooting that that Altgens photo of “them” and Zapruder was taken? Would they have had time to run up there. Also, the FBI reports say that they got on the ground first, then went across the street looking for cover. Do we have anyone that might be able to look at photos of both couples and then decide which one is correct? Does your wife’s friend know what Charles Hester looked like?

It would be interesting to have some confirmation, one way or the other.


Edit: I just found a thread that seems to indicate that the FBI reports must be wrong.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21004-charles-hester/
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 12:53:01 AM by Charles Collins »

Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2021, 01:30:33 AM »
The Hesters can be seen in Bronson near the pergola as the limo approaches the Stemmons sign


Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2021, 01:39:14 AM »
The couple on the south side infield (as seen in Cancellere) can be seen running in this Bell GIF


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2021, 02:58:37 AM »
The Hesters can be seen in Bronson near the pergola as the limo approaches the Stemmons sign




Thanks Robin, I read the entire thread on the ed forum that I linked to earlier. Not everyone there appears  to be convinced that that is the Hesters. There are some major conflicts between their 11/22/63 account and the FBI reports dated 11/25/63. If we choose to believe the 11/22/63 account to be correct, then it is possible that the Hesters were near the pergola. But if the 11/25/63 reports are correct, then the couple on the south side of Elm Street appear to fit that description.

 

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