Author Topic: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09  (Read 1444 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2021, 03:03:30 AM »
The couple on the south side infield (as seen in Cancellere) can be seen running in this Bell GIF




Thanks again Robin. That is interesting. I need to take another look at the Bell film.

Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2021, 06:10:09 PM »
Beatrice and Sitzman seen in Cook standing together.


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2021, 06:16:11 PM »
Beatrice and Sitzman seen in Cook standing together.



It appears that Beatrice is carrying Stizman’s black purse for her.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 07:17:20 PM »
Here is the text from the 11/22/63 account (I highlighted the address):


VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS
Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Charles Hester, Address 2616 Keyhole, Irving Age 28 , Phone No. None
Deposes and says:

My wife, Beatrice and I were sitting on the grass on the slope on Elm Street where the park is located. When President Kennedy's car got almost down to the underpass, I heard two shots ring out. Thye [sic] sounded like they came from immediately behind us and over our heads. We did [not?] see the shooting. I immediately turned and looked at the Texas Book Depository building and did not see anyone. The shots sounded like the [sic] definitely came from in or around the building. I grabbed my wife because I didn't know where the next shot was coming from and dragged her up next to the concrete imbankment [sic] and threw her down on the ground and got on the ground with her. Then there was utter confusion. The Police rushed toward the railroad tracks and I finally found an officer to go to the Texas Book Depository Building. The officer I contacted was Officer Wiseman of the Dallas Sheriff's Department.

/s/ Charles Hester

Subscribed and sworn to before me on this the 22nd day of Nov A. D. 1963

/s/ Aleen Davis
Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas


And here is the text from the 11/25/63 FBI report (I highlighted the address):


FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

Date 11/25/63

CHARLES HESTER, 2610 Mayhold Street, furnished the following information:

At approximately 12:30 p.m., November 22, 1963, HESTER and his wife, BEATRICE, were standing along the street at the point immediately preceeding the underpass on Elm Street where President JOHN F. KENNEDY was shot. HESTER stated he saw the President slump in the seat of the car and that he heard two shots fired drom what appeared to be a building located on the corner of Elm Street and Houston Street. He Stated he and his wife were almost in a direct line of the fire and he immediately grabbed his wife and shoved her to the ground. He stated hethereafter immediately escorted his wife across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter.



HESTER stated he did not see anyone with a gun at the time the shots were fired and that after the President's car had pulled away from the scene and officers started toward the aforementioned building, he and his wife proceeded to their car and left the area.

on 11/24/63 at Irving, Texas File # DL 89-43

By Special Agent DOYLE WILLIAMS and HENRY J. OLIVER Date Dictated 11/25/63



The street view on google maps of 2616 Keyhole Street shows a small brick home with the appearance of a typical home that might be there in 1963; So I believe this one is correct. The address on the FBI report doesn’t seem to exist. So I have to guess that this is a clerical error. And I am also guessing that perhaps there was a mixup in exactly who’s account the FBI’s report contains. It doesn’t resemble the 11/22/63 Sheriff’s report in several ways. This appears to be the most likely explanation to me. Someone at the FBI might have made a mistake.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:20:07 PM by Charles Collins »

Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 09:00:22 PM »
Charles the Hesters could have been to the North side of the free way access road, and then moved over the Elm Street extension which runs in front of the TSBD.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2021, 09:58:37 PM »
Charles the Hesters could have been to the North side of the free way access road, and then moved over the Elm Street extension which runs in front of the TSBD.


Thanks for the thought Ray. Here is what the report says:

He Stated he and his wife were almost in a direct line of the fire and he immediately grabbed his wife and shoved her to the ground. He stated hethereafter immediately escorted his wife across to the north side of the street on an embankment in an attempt to gain shelter.


The embankment is on the south side and to the west of the Elm Street Extension. And the only thing immediately north of it is the TSBD.

The un-named couple south of Elm Street can be seen in the Cancellare photo beginning to climb the embankment. It appears to me that they have just crossed Elm Street and are frightened and in a hurry. The descriptions in the 11/25/63 FBI reports for the Hesters fits the locations and activities of the un-named couple very well (in my opinion); and those FBI reports do not fit the Hester”s account or what can be seen of them in the photos and films. So a mixup of some description by the FBI appears to me to be the most likely explanation. The differences in the addresses between the Sheriff’s affidavit and the FBI reports could be a dictaphone transcription error. And it is conceivable (to me) that an interruption of some description could have caused someone to get the accounts of the two different couples mixed up.

What I am going to do next is search for any photographic evidence of the un-named couple laying on the ground. This would tend to further support the theory of an FBI screw-up.

Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2021, 11:13:05 PM »

Thanks Robin, I read the entire thread on the ed forum that I linked to earlier. Not everyone there appears  to be convinced that that is the Hesters. There are some major conflicts between their 11/22/63 account and the FBI reports dated 11/25/63. If we choose to believe the 11/22/63 account to be correct, then it is possible that the Hesters were near the pergola. But if the 11/25/63 reports are correct, then the couple on the south side of Elm Street appear to fit that description.

Charles it makes sense that the couple seen in Bronson are the Hesters, prior to the motorcade arriving Zapruder filmed them in the same location.




Offline Robin Unger

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2021, 11:26:45 PM »
Bronson shows the Hesters near the bench, and the Limo just approaching the Stemmons sign.
just moments later as the Limo passed the Stemmons sign and the shots rang out.
Charles grabbed Beatrice and they moved further up the grass towards the peristyle and then he and Beatrice ducked and hitt he grass trying to avoid being shot.

Bell shows Wiegman crouched down on the grass filming the Hesters lying on the grass, moments later Charles hester left his wife on the ground as he jumped to his feet went inside the peristyle and looked back into the carpark area.




Wiegman crouched down filming the Hesters sitting on the grass.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 11:45:59 PM by Robin Unger »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2021, 12:09:39 AM »
Charles it makes sense that the couple seen in Bronson are the Hesters, prior to the motorcade arriving Zapruder filmed them in the same location.




Yes, I agree that it’s the same couple. And it appears that they were friends with Sitzman and Zapruder. And someone in the other forum indicated that Beatrice worked with them. But I haven’t seen anything to support the working there claim ( other than the friendly behavior). In other words, how do we know that Hester was the name of the couple?

I can understand why Charles might not want to mention Zapruder in his affidavit immediately after the assassination on 11/22/63. But have any of them said anything about being together there since the assassination? For instance, it seems to me that James’ wife’s friend would have heard something about that from her aunt.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 12:11:49 AM by Charles Collins »

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Marilyn Sitzman and Beatrice Hester Down the Knoll in Skaggs09
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2021, 03:27:12 AM »

Yes, I agree that it’s the same couple. And it appears that they were friends with Sitzman and Zapruder. And someone in the other forum indicated that Beatrice worked with them. But I haven’t seen anything to support the working there claim ( other than the friendly behavior). In other words, how do we know that Hester was the name of the couple?

I can understand why Charles might not want to mention Zapruder in his affidavit immediately after the assassination on 11/22/63. But have any of them said anything about being together there since the assassination? For instance, it seems to me that James’ wife’s friend would have heard something about that from her aunt.
In Alexandra Zapruders's book Twenty-Two-Seconds, A Personal History of the Zapruder Film page 34, while describing her grandfather's testing his camera: (boldface is mine)
“After a while, Marilyn Sitzman came walking up the hill. All the banks had been closed because of the president's visit, so she gave up and walked back to the plaza, where she encountered Abe taking some test shots of his payroll clerk Beatrice Hester and her husband, Charles.

I did make contact with Beatrice's niece after about 10-15 years. She had a few memories, but I don't think she knew or can remember any assassination related details.

Beatrice was a middle name, not used by her niece.

She recalls Charles Hester worked as a sport's writer for a Dallas newspaper. I don't know if that is common knowledge or not. Perhaps someone could sleuth out his avatar with a little searching. I don't know which paper, the DMN archives are available free to Dallas residents with a library card. Maybe the Sixth Floor Museum Reading Room could help, once they reopen.

I have not heard back from her concerning photo identifications. I did give her a link of this thread, if she is interested.

 

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