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Author Topic: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda  (Read 7632 times)

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #170 on: April 28, 2019, 04:52:46 PM »
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Ptm Baker had already given his testimony to the Warren Commission but for some unknown reason the FBI had him come in, sit down and hand write another affidavit just before the Commission's works went into print. This document was entered as CE-3076.
In his testimony, the Coke machine was mentioned but there was no mention of Oswald drinking a beverage.
However in his first mention of the lunchroom encounter Baker stated that they [He and Truly] had made their way up to the third or forth floor before Oswald was encountered. That seems rather puzzling. By the time he testified though, he had learned to count to two.
 "Mr. Belin - What happened?"
Mr. BAKER -" As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there."         
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Mr Baker had mentioned that Oswald was drinking a coke in earlier interviews. Apparently this could have been the reasoning for the last minute affidavit. 
 
 The words drinking a Coke are crossed out. I suppose it seemed a bit much to have to fit all that in after an alleged super dive from the sixth floor.

 

"On the second or third floor where the lunchroom is located I saw a man standing in the room and drinking a Coke".....

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #170 on: April 28, 2019, 04:52:46 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #171 on: April 28, 2019, 04:57:37 PM »

No doubt the same Coke Oswald was witnessed drinking by Sarah Stanton...

Offline Mike Orr

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #172 on: April 29, 2019, 11:02:19 PM »
If the soda was not a big deal then why would someone have looked at that and said " You know , come to think of it , I'm not sure now if LHO had a soda in his hand or not , but since the FBI said he did not have a soda in his hand, well they are always right because if he did then that would mean he had to dig the change out of his pocket and insert the change into the soda machine and then pull out the soda and open it and that would have just taken him a little longer than we thought for him to have made those shots and then mosey on down to the breakroom . Damn FBI , they are good ! Whew ! Hoover tells LBJ on the 29th of Nov. that LHO had made 3 shots in 3 seconds . Hoover was such an idiot !

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #172 on: April 29, 2019, 11:02:19 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #173 on: April 30, 2019, 12:28:11 AM »
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If the soda was not a big deal then why would someone have looked at that and said " You know , come to think of it , I'm not sure now if LHO had a soda in his hand or not , but since the FBI said he did not have a soda in his hand, well they are always right because if he did then that would mean he had to dig the change out of his pocket and insert the change into the soda machine and then pull out the soda and open it and that would have just taken him a little longer than we thought for him to have made those shots and then mosey on down to the breakroom . Damn FBI , they are good ! Whew ! Hoover tells LBJ on the 29th of Nov. that LHO had made 3 shots in 3 seconds . Hoover was such an idiot !

Actually Hoover was insane....   Very much like Adolph Hitler.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #174 on: May 12, 2019, 06:56:55 PM »
Brian Doyle wrote:

Walt represents the unskilled researchers we are unfortunately subjected to...No serious researcher would ever say in public that Oswald could not hear the shots...This person obviously has no familiarity with gun fire...The firing of a high powered combat rifle is something no one misses due to simple physics and science...

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Brian, are you aware that 2 witnesses inside the TSBD at the time of the assassination did not hear any shots?

Edna Case: ". . . I was at my desk on the third floor looking out the window located on the west side of the building. I did not hear any shots . . ."
Sandra Sue Elerson: " . . . I was looking out the third floor window trying to get a view of the President's car. . . . I did not hear any shots or any loud sounds that sounded like rifle fire."

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I am not claiming that Oswald did not hear any shots, and I am not saying I agree with Walt. I'm taking issue with your blanket claim that the "firing of a high powered rifle is something that no one misses. . ." And perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the testimony of all the witnesses before denigrating others as unskilled researchers.

Excellent post, John.

Just last night I was wondering whether or not Oswald (if he wasn't a shooter, of course) heard the shots.

If so, then he understood precisely what the reporter meant by "at the time," and, if he was innocent, he probably answered him truthfully -- after all, why would he lie and say he was inside if he was outside? -- when the reporter asked him, "Were you in the building at the time?," and Oswald replied, "Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir."

If Oswald was innocent and heard the shooting while inside the building, wouldn't he have looked out a window to see what was going on?  Just firecrackers? Backfires? OMG, shots? Or run downstairs, or, if you prefer, run outside from "where he was eating" -- the Domino Room -- to do same?

If it turns out that Prayer Person is not Oswald, wouldn't that tend to incriminate him, especially if we are to believe that he was eating his lunch in the nearby Domino Room "at the time"?

Is that what John Iacoletti is so worried about?

-- MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 03:58:26 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #174 on: May 12, 2019, 06:56:55 PM »

Online Alan Hardaker

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #175 on: May 14, 2019, 12:01:44 AM »
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Thumb1: Of course that is what I meant by 'it didn't look good'. The precious seconds it took to wiggle around the book stacks on the sixth floor...conceal a weapon... fly down the stairs ...dig change out of a pocket...select the right coins...deposit money...select drink...wait for drink to ka-chink out of the machine...open...then start consuming, didn't sit well with the concept of an agitated killer going on the run. 
 

Wouldn't be that LHO was cute enough to think "I'll crab a coke"...thinking what would look more natural and casual for an employee to be getting a coke..what could be more innocent looking that that.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #176 on: May 16, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »
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If it turns out that Prayer Person is not Oswald, wouldn't that tend to incriminate him, especially if we are to believe that he was eating his lunch in the nearby Domino Room "at the time"?

Is that what John Iacoletti is so worried about?

Why would John Iacoletti be worried about your hypothetical questions?

Is there any good reason to think that a person sitting in the domino room would have heard shots?  Did Troy West hear any shots from his position on the first floor which was closer to Elm Street?

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #176 on: May 16, 2019, 09:29:00 PM »

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #177 on: May 21, 2019, 01:11:00 PM »
Imo, Oswald may have had a Dr.Pepper in hand BEFORE he came up to the 2nd floor, which would be not later than probably 12:12 given Carolyn Arnolds observation of Oswald actually SITTING in the 2nd floor lunchroom at 12:15 earliest to 12:20 latest. Yet, neither Stanton, nor Arnold apparently saw each other.

 the late date Stanton relative  recalling the story of a "Pepsi". That is rather close to "Pepper". Not coke, but "pepsi"? . Maybe its just a coincidence, idk.

And it would have been very easy for Sarah to have distinguished between a 1963 coke bottle and a 1963  Dr.Pepper bottle due the large solid white label of Dr.Pepper at lower 1/3rd part of the bottle, so not that implausible  that Sarah might have actually stated the specific name. Nor that a relative many years later might misremember Dr.Pepper as "pepsi"

So this would change the hypothetical sequence to:

Oswald went to the Dr.Pepper machine on the 1st floor by rear stairs, got the Dr.Pepper, then went up to eat his lunch ALONE in the 2nd floor lunchroom, hoping that all the office woman had already left. This eating in the lunchroom alone, is alluded to by Billy Lovelady in an FBI statement refering to Oswald doing just that.

This may be why Stanton may have told the story to the relative as having seen Oswald just standing around in the area as opposed to having stated seeing Oswald go in or come out of, the lunchroom with the "pepsi" in hand.

At some point Oswald must have gone back down to the Domino room, having decided not to stay in the lunchroom after Carolyn Arnold saw him there. This is about the only way that Oswald could reasonably have probable view and also heard, James Jarman and Harold Norman returning to TSBD back door around 12:23.

That would be when Oswald likely would have left the Domino room and head towards the front lobby, reaching there around 12:24 or 12:25. That coincides with another Carolyn Arnold FBI statement of having seen Oswald at 12:25 on the 1st floor, as she "looked back". That FBI statement, Arnold actually signed her name.

Add in the 2 new 'notes" revealing "out front with Shelly" and "went out to watch P.Parade, and then Dr.Pepper bottle found, in the very recessed step, the one step down, that Prayerblob is located, and with some object raised to mouth with large white spot,  on the West side of landing...it SURE IS AMAZINGLY coincidental.




« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 01:16:08 PM by Zeon Mason »

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #177 on: May 21, 2019, 01:11:00 PM »

Online Anthony Clayden

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2019, 11:23:27 PM »
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Brian Doyle wrote:

Walt represents the unskilled researchers we are unfortunately subjected to...No serious researcher would ever say in public that Oswald could not hear the shots...This person obviously has no familiarity with gun fire...The firing of a high powered combat rifle is something no one misses due to simple physics and science...

Excellent post, John.

Just last night I was wondering whether or not Oswald (if he wasn't a shooter, of course) heard the shots.

If so, then he understood precisely what the reporter meant by "at the time," and, if he was innocent, he probably answered him truthfully -- after all, why would he lie and say he was inside if he was outside? -- when the reporter asked him, "Were you in the building at the time?," and Oswald replied, "Naturally, if I work in that building, yes sir."

If Oswald was innocent and heard the shooting while inside the building, wouldn't he have looked out a window to see what was going on?  Just firecrackers? Backfires? OMG, shots? Or run downstairs, or, if you prefer, run outside from "where he was eating" -- the Domino Room -- to do same?

If it turns out that Prayer Person is not Oswald, wouldn't that tend to incriminate him, especially if we are to believe that he was eating his lunch in the nearby Domino Room "at the time"?

Is that what John Iacoletti is so worried about?

-- MWT   ;)


Dougherty was on the rear of the fifth floor and testified to only hearing one loud noise.

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #178 on: May 28, 2019, 11:23:27 PM »

 

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