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Author Topic: Name your shooter  (Read 20791 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2019, 08:18:29 AM »
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"There are no "bad shots" in the Marine Corps."

This letter sent to the WC at the direction of the Marine Corp Commandant says a low marksman qualification indicates a rather poor shot.
It includes Oswald's Marksman qualification scores.
He qualified with a 191 score. 190 is the lowest score you could get and still qualify.
Ozzie was considered a rather poor shot by the Marine Corp.


]


Oswald had no time to warm up:

First shot missed
Second shot 'mass-centre-mass'
Third shot bullseye

Got his feel back rather quickly
That's 'this-is-my-rifle, this-is-my-gun' training for you.

 ;)

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2019, 08:18:29 AM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2019, 03:07:31 PM »
Oswald had no time to warm up:

First shot missed
Second shot 'mass-centre-mass'
Third shot bullseye

Got his feel back rather quickly
That's 'this-is-my-rifle, this-is-my-gun' training for you.

 ;)

When the Army tested the Carcano, using 3 expert marksman, they concluded a person would need considerable experience with
weapons and considerable experience in paticular with the Carcano to make the shots proposed by the WC.

Aside from the scope being misaligned and needing shims added before it could be adjusted and the iron sights being sighted
@ 200yds which caused the rifle to fire high at lesser distances, they found two dificulties with firing the Carcano.

First, the difficulty of operating the bolt caused the shooter to take the sights off the target when cycling it between
shots.

Second, the two stage trigger of the Carcano created a hair trigger during it's second stage of firing.

They concluded the shooter would need live firing practice to overcome these difficulties.

Can you show where Oswald aquired the considerable experience with the Carcano and paticulary the live firing experience
he needed to do what is claimed he did?

~snip~

Mr. EISENBERG. Do you think a marksman who is less than a highly skilled marksman under those conditions would be able to
shoot in the range of 1.2-mil aiming error?
Mr. SIMMONS. Obviously considerable experience would have to be in one's background to do so. And with this weapon, I
think also considerable experience with this weapon, because of the amount of effort required to work the bolt.
Mr. EISENBERG. Would do what? You mean would improve the accuracy?
Mr. SIMMONS. Yes. In our experiments, the pressure to open the bolt was so great that we tended to move the rifle off the
target, whereas with greater proficiency this might not have occurred.

~snip~

Mr. EISENBERG. When you say proficiency with this weapon, Mr. Simmons, could you go into detail as to what you mean--do
you mean accuracy with this weapon, or familiarity with the weapon?
Mr. SIMMONS. I mean familiarity basically with two things. One is the action of the bolt itself, and the force required
to open it; and two, the action of the trigger, which is a two-stage trigger.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can familiarity with the trigger and with the bolt be acquired in dry practice?
Mr. SIMMONS. Familiarity with the bolt can, probably as well as during live firing. But familiarity with the trigger
would best be achieved with some firing.

~snip~

Mr. EISENBERG. Why is there this difference between familiarity with the bolt and familiarity with the trigger in dry firing?
Mr. SIMMONS. There tends to be a reaction between the firer and the weapon at the time the weapon is fired, due to the
recoil impulse. And I do not believe the action of the bolt going home would sufficiently simulate the action of the recoil
of the weapon.


Mr. SIMMONS. Yes. But there are two stages to the trigger. Our riflemen were all used to a trigger with a constant pull.
When the slack was taken up, then they expected the round to fire. But actually when the slack is taken up, you tend to
have a hair trigger here, which requires a bit of getting used to.
Mr. McCLOY. This does not have a hair trigger after the slack is taken up?
Mr. SIMMONS. This tends to have the hair trigger as soon as you move it after the slack is taken up. You achieve or you
feel greater resistance to the movement of the trigger, and then ordinarily you would expect the weapon to have fired,
and in this case then as you move it to overcome that, it fires immediately. And our firers were moving the shoulder into
the weapon.

~snip~

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2019, 04:12:00 PM »
A.G. FOLSOM, JR.
Lieutenant Colonel U.S. Marine Corps
Head, Records Branch, Personnel Department
By direction of the Commandant of the Marine Corps


"...The Marine Corps considers that any reasonable application of the instructions given to Marines should
permit them to become qualified at least as marksman. To become qualified as sharpshooter, the Marine Corps is of the
opinion that most Marines with a reasonable amount of adaptability to weapons firing can become so qualified. Consequently
a low marksman qualification indicates a rather poor "shot" and a sharpshooter qualification indicates a
fairly good "shot". I trust the foregoing will serve the purpose of your inquiry..."


The Warren Commission brought in two career military men, Major Anderson and  Sgt. James A. Zahm from the Marine Corp to testify
that LHO is a better than average shot and could have easily made the 11/22/63 shots that killed JFK.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On December 21, 1956, using a M-1, firing at targets at 200, 300, and 500 yds, he scored 212.  210 is the lowest score to qualify a sharpshooter.
WC expert, Major Anderson, gave the following reasons for LHO qualifying as a sharpshooter.

"Yes; the day the 212 was fired appears to be according to the record book to have been an ideal day under firing conditions.

"Yes; when he fired that he had just completed a very intensive preliminary training period."

"He had the services of an experienced highly trained coach."

"He had high motivation."

"He had presumably a good to excellent rifle and good ammunition."



On May6, 1959, using a M-1, firing at a stationary target at 200 yds, he scored 191. This is the lowest possible score he could get and still qualify as a marksman.
WC expert, Major Anderson, gave the following reasons as possibilities of why LHO scored so low.

"It might well have been a bad day for firing the rifle windy, rainy, dark."

"There is some possibility that the rifle he was firing might not have been as good a rifle as the rifle that he was firing in his A course firing, because may well
have carried this rifle for quite some time, and it got banged around in normal usage."

"There is little probability that he had a good, expert coach, and he probably didn't have as high a motivation because he was no longer in recruit training and under
the care of the drill instructor."


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/22/63

LHO is 4 yrs removed from any kind of firearms training or coaching.

How much farther had his shooting skills eroded?
 

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2019, 04:12:00 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2019, 04:54:28 PM »
Nah, I'm seeing the head Euins described.

No, you’re assuming that Euins saw Oswald and desperately trying to make what he described fit.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2019, 04:56:52 PM »
First shot missed
Second shot 'mass-centre-mass'
Third shot bullseye

There you go again, stating assumptions as facts.

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2019, 04:56:52 PM »


Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2019, 06:42:55 PM »
Why he was killed...........

Robert Kennedy hounded Carlos and other mob members in the senate hearings dragging several into their hearings and make comments like “I thought only little girls giggled Mr. Hoffa”

Joe Kennedy asks for the help of the mob to get his son Jack elected president of the United States and he wins by a slim margin. Was the mobs help enough to swing the vote to JFK, who knows, the only thing that matters is that the mob thought so.

Bobby Kennedy has Carlos Marcello basically kidnapped and flown out of the county to ultimately be kicked out of a bus in the middle of the jungle in their florshiem  shoes to fend for themselves where they could have been killed and did suffer some injuries.

I am not sure if the mob took offence with the way Frank Sinatra was treated by JFK after Frank spent a small fortune building a helicopter pad for when the President was going to come and visit and then all of a sudden JFK turns his back on Frank with no explanation. Frank was so pissed he couldn’t see straight, I think it was said that he was so angry he took a sludge hammer to the concrete helipad.

Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2019, 07:08:41 PM »
No, Marcello was down in Central America for weeks or months.

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2019, 07:08:41 PM »


Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Name your shooter
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2019, 07:29:35 PM »
So “name your shooter” is like asking the name of the mechanic working on your car, what difference does it make, he is just following orders from up above.    He is not responsible for the planning, or even know why he is doing it, he is just doing what he is paid to do.
I have stated “why” in post 77 of this thread and one of the “who”. I am not sure if this is the thread to say more, I hate it when people drift off topic, kind of like what I have done but I had to put in my two cents worth.