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Author Topic: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"  (Read 5797 times)

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2019, 08:37:37 AM »
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Thanks Tommy. You say on page 1 of that EF thread that you don?t know who identified the woman in the photo with Leavelle as Reid, and it appears that the entire basis for ever calling her Reid was that Reid once talked to Leavelle and she was in her 50s.

So much for Doyle?s ?two different faces?.8

Iacoletti,

The devil's in the multiplicity of details and the interconnections therein and thereof, but you, unfortunately, seem to love to cherrypick the "weakest" of said details and claim that I'm basing my whole case on a single one (e.g. "Calvary's" nose, or "Calvary's" hair) to your self-perceived advantage in our ongoing debates, as though this is some kind of game.

Leavelle said that he took the affadivits of only three people on Saturday, November 23rd: Roy Truly, Mrs. R. A. Reid, and taxi driver W. W. Scoggins.

We know that Mrs. Robert A. Reid (aka Jeraldean Reid) was 51 years old at the time.

The photo of Leavelle and the middle-aged looking woman was taken on Saturday, November 23rd at the Dallas Police Department, and it looks as though Leavelle's reading something to the woman, or reading it, himself (maybe even an affidavit she's just made; note that there are no other people around to distract them).

Jeraldean said she was watching the motorcade near the front steps of the TSBD, and that Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell were near her.

In their statements, Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell said they watched the motorcade together. In his Warren Commission testimony, Truly said that he and Campbell were standing "ten, or fifteen, or twenty feet from the front steps," and that "Mrs. Reid was standing there close."

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In Wiegman we can see Roy Truly standing near the steps, as well as another taller man who may be Ochus Campbell quite near him. About ten feet to our left of these two men, we can see behind another woman the partial face of a woman who looks like the above-mentioned dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman.

Taking all of the above points together, I think it's reasonable to assume that the dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman partially hidden behind the other woman in Wiegman was Jeraldean Reid, and that the woman with whom Leavelle, reading some sort of document, was photographed sitting with at the Dallas Police Department on Saturday, November 23rd was that same woman -- the only woman he'd taken an affidavit from that day, Mrs. R. A. Reid (aka Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid).

.......

What do other JFK Assassination Forum members think?

Can we agree that the woman I've been talking about, above, is Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid?

Or would that require:

1) A notarized statement, and

2) A birth certificate, and

3) A DNA test or two?
.......

There are twelve pages in that thread at the EF, Iaconetti.

Have you gotten past the first one, yet?

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)




« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 10:42:51 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2019, 08:37:37 AM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2019, 02:53:14 PM »
Yes, I read all 12 pages.  It reminded me of how brilliant Linda Zambanini is.

First of all, how do you know the film with the Leavelle frame was taken on Saturday?  I think it was actually taken on Sunday after Oswald was shot.  Second of all, how do you know Leavelle is taking a deposition or even talking to this woman?

It's one thing to make a reasonable guess 4 years ago that this woman could be Reid until better information (like the yearbook photo) is discovered, but to then run around for 4 years saying that Reid has been identified or to post photos with this woman captioned "Jeraldean Reid" is just irresponsible.  This case is rife with misidentifications of witnesses.  Now you get nutcases like Doyle postulating that there were two Mrs. Reids because both have "been identified" as Mrs. Reid.  A guess, no matter how well intentioned, is not an identification.

Which is why I was wanting to know how this myth of the glasses-wearing woman with Leavelle being Mrs. Reid got started -- to unravel truth from fiction.  To unravel guesses from evidence.  Isn't that why we're all here?

Online Brian Doyle

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2019, 04:07:33 PM »
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Taking all of the above points together, I think it's reasonable to assume that the dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman partially hidden behind the other woman in Wiegman was Jeraldean Reid, and that the woman with whom Leavelle, reading some sort of document, was photographed sitting with at the Dallas Police Department on Saturday, November 23rd was that same woman -- the only woman he'd taken an affidavit from that day, Mrs. R. A. Reid (aka Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid).

You're incredible Thomas because no matter how much I spell something out you manage to mangle it in your summations...The flaw in what you write above is that you fail to consider that the woman in the photo sent to me by Wanda Daniel from Sarah Stanton's photo album is labeled "Jeraldean Reid"...That woman should be the only woman referred to as "Jeraldean Reid"...Thank you Thomas for badly fumbling my whole case and giving comfort to Iacoletti...

Groden told me on the phone tuesday that FBI used "Mrs Robert Reid" for the woman outside in order to conceal "Jeraldean Reid" who was inside and was a second Mrs Reid...Groden appears to have some wrinkles in "Delores" and the woman being near 80 when he did the interview...He also confirmed that the woman in Sarah's photo was the same woman he interviewed...

The reason Groden still has traction is because it appears the "Mrs Robert Reid" woman in the photo with Leavelle is not the same "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo...Also, the statement by Pauline Sanders that speaks of talking to "Geraldine Reid" on the telephone suggests that this woman was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald in the lunch room...It also verbally suggests that Oswald was eating in the lunch room during the assassination...It is my opinion that FBI mirrored its knowledge that was gained from this Mrs Reid, who was Groden's Mrs Reid, and that knowledge bled into its linguistics in that report...That report shows heavy suggestion that this Mrs Reid knew Oswald was in the lunch room during the assassination and came and got change from this Mrs Reid during the shots...

The Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid" appears to have a different face from Sarah's "Jeraldean Reid"...

Both you two show an extreme lack of skill in not realizing where we are from this is finding out why we have two Mrs Reid's and why the second Groden one is labeled "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo album?

Iacoletti's problem is he bases his logic on statements like "nutcase Doyle" and "not credible evidence" and tries to drive down an evidence road paved with those words...But he does so foolishly while leaving the real credible evidence I just outlined unaddressed...That's why I'm the one leading this debate and he's the one trolling it...
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:47:55 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2019, 04:07:33 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2019, 04:52:34 PM »
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You're incredible Thomas because no matter how much I spell something out you manage to mangle it in your summations...The flaw in what you write above is that you fail to consider that the woman in the photo sent to me by Wanda Daniel from Sarah Stanton's photo album is labeled "Jeraldean Reid"...That woman should be the only woman referred to as "Jeraldean Reid"...Thank you Thomas for badly fumbling my whole case and giving comfort to Iacoletti...

Where the label, Doyle?

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Groden told me on the phone tuesday that FBI used "Mrs Robert Reid" for the woman outside in order to conceal "Jeraldean Reid" who was inside and was a second Mrs Reid...

I doubt that you actually spoke to Groden, but he's wrong.  There was one Mrs. Reid -- Jeraldean.  No Delores.

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The reason Groden still has traction is because it appears the "Mrs Robert Reid" woman in the photo with Leavelle is not the same "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo.

And as we just learned, the "identification" of the woman with Leavelle as Mrs. Reid never had any merit.

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..Also, the statement by Pauline Sanders that speaks of talking to "Geraldine Reid" on the telephone suggests that this woman was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald in the lunch room...It also verbally suggests that Oswald was eating in the lunch room during the assassination...

This nonsense again.  Sanders account of what Reid told her is just mangled hearsay.  You want to prefer a secondhand mangled account, because that's what you do.

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The Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid" appears to have a different face from Sarah's "Jeraldean Reid"...

That's because there was never any good reason to think that the "Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid" was Mrs Robert Reid.  Duh.

Quote
Iacoletti's problem is he bases his logic on statements like "nutcase Doyle" and "not credible evidence" and tries to drive down an evidence road paved with those words...But he does so foolishly while leaving the real credible evidence I just outlined unaddressed...That's why I'm the one leading this debate and he's the one trolling it...

You're "leading" this debate into la-la land, because again, it's what you do.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 04:55:51 PM by John Iacoletti »

Online Brian Doyle

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2019, 05:36:13 PM »
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Where the label, Doyle?

I doubt that you actually spoke to Groden, but he's wrong.  There was one Mrs. Reid -- Jeraldean.  No Delores.

And as we just learned, the "identification" of the woman with Leavelle as Mrs. Reid never had any merit.

This nonsense again.  Sanders account of what Reid told her is just mangled hearsay.  You want to prefer a secondhand mangled account, because that's what you do.

That's because there was never any good reason to think that the "Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid" was Mrs Robert Reid.  Duh.

You're "leading" this debate into la-la land, because again, it's what you do.

Here we go again with Iacoletti's trollish naysaying...I don't need to jump through every hoop and hurdle Iacoletti raises...I have the label and have proven myself enough that I don't need to answer to Iacoletti's trolling doubt...If he doesn't like that he can always go away...Iacoletti did the same thing with my speaking to Craig Calvery...He offered similar doubt...Yesterday I posted a screen-shot of Craig's e-mail to me confirming that he agreed that "Tall Woman" in Betzner-3 was his mother and specified the features, including her glasses, that matched...Iacoletti's response was to accuse me of forging the e-mail screen-shot...On other boards Iacoletti would rightfully be send to segregation for that...

Your answer to Delores ham-handedly runs roughshod across the evidence I posted...That disqualifies you Iacoletti...Let us know when you can answer what was written...

« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:03:43 PM by Brian Doyle »

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2019, 05:36:13 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2019, 06:06:06 PM »
Iacoletti failed to answer the fact Thomas showed that Mrs Robert Reid was Leavelle's only female interview that day so it has to be her...That woman's face is different than Sarah Stanton's "Jeraldean Reid" and Iacoletti has failed to answer a basic argument of evidence...

Iacoletti also stupidly fails to answer that if the Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid is not her then where is the Sarah Stanton "Jeraldean Reid" outside in assassination photos?
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:08:18 PM by Brian Doyle »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2019, 06:24:06 PM »
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Here we go again with Iacoletti's trollish naysaying...I don't need to jump through every hoop and hurdle Iacoletti raises...I have the label and have proven myself enough that I don't need to answer to Iacoletti's trolling doubt...If he doesn't like that he can always go away...

This is why it's important to be honest in all your communications.   If you're wrong, admit it and correct it.  Don't just trot out the same lie the next day.  If you make a mistake, own up to it rather than digging in and posting walls of insults in response.  If there is a weakness in your argument, then own up to that, and try to make a better argument.  That's what intellectually honest people do.  You've been caught out lying or misrepresenting evidence and what people actually said so many times that you have no credibility whatsoever.  So no, I'm not going to just take your word for it.  If you had a history of honesty and integrity, I probably would.

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Iacoletti did the same thing with my speaking to Craig Calvery...He offered similar doubt...Yesterday I posted a screen-shot of Craig's e-mail to me confirming that he agreed that "Tall Woman" in Betzner-3 was his mother and specified the features, including her glasses, that matched.

Another falsehood.  You've been saying for weeks that Chris Calvery identified his mother in Betzner.  Then when repeatedly challenged to show evidence for that, you produce an alleged email from Craig Calvery dated yesterday with the comparatively weaker statement:  "looks like mom from a height, profile, and glasses standpoint? (and you used the Betzner enlargement that I gave you without any acknowledgment), but what happened to the Chris Calvery claim you've been touting for weeks?  Did you panic when you realized that you've been lying about Chris for weeks and decided you better send an email to try to salvage your reputation after the fact?  Then you try to claim that Craig's "looks like" is a "confirmation" rather than just a guess.

Karen Westbrook (who was there) said that Gloria was standing next to her by the Stemmons sign.  You were not there.  Chris was not there.  Craig was not there.  Craig was born in 1970.  Chris was born in 1977.

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..Iacoletti's response was to accuse me of forging the e-mail screen-shot...On other boards Iacoletti would rightfully be send to segregation for that...

This is what I'm talking about.  I didn't accuse you of forging anything.  Post a screen shot of this "accusation" or admit that it's just another lie.

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Your answer to Delores ham-handedly runs roughshod across the evidence I posted...That disqualifies you Iacoletti...Let us know when you can answer what was written...

You didn't post any evidence.  You posted a a big giant conspiratorial speculation about there being two Mrs Reids when there is no actual evidence that there were two Mrs Reids.  My answer is that you're full of it. 
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 06:29:13 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2019, 06:24:06 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2019, 06:27:52 PM »
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Iacoletti failed to answer the fact Thomas showed that Mrs Robert Reid was Leavelle's only female interview that day so it has to be her...

 BS:

You haven't shown any evidence for what day that image was taken, or that it depicts an interview.

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Iacoletti also stupidly fails to answer that if the Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid is not her then where is the Sarah Stanton "Jeraldean Reid" outside in assassination photos?

That's the same ridiculous argument you try to make about Stanton:  "prove she is somewhere else or my wild-ass guess wins".

No.

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2019, 06:27:52 PM »

Online Brian Doyle

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Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2019, 07:07:01 PM »
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BS:

You haven't shown any evidence for what day that image was taken, or that it depicts an interview.

That's the same ridiculous argument you try to make about Stanton:  "prove she is somewhere else or my wild-ass guess wins".

No.

This is just sloppy, desperate denial of the fact the woman is the same woman seen in front of the Depository...

You see Iacoletti is so used to his naysay trolling that he's literally unable to do anything else and doesn't realize he just badly crashed and burned in front of evidence he showed in public that he was unable to intelligently respond to...

Who's the ignorable name-caller and who is the master who just smoked you badly Trolletti?

Dumb challenge Iacoletti...If we find the camera man source we will confirm that was the 23rd and was Leavelle's interview of "Mrs Robert Reid"...You will ignore it and find some other specious naysaying point to cherry-pick...

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2019, 07:21:48 PM »
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This is just sloppy, desperate denial of the fact the woman is the same woman seen in front of the Depository...

Lots of women were seen in front of the Depository.  That's just a colossally bad argument, even for you.

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You see Iacoletti is so used to his naysay trolling that he's literally unable to do anything else and doesn't realize he just badly crashed and burned in front of evidence he showed in public that he was unable to intelligently respond to...

I think you are so delusional that you actually think that if you say something happened then it actually really happened.  You're a legend in your own mind.

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Who's the ignorable name-caller and who is the master who just smoked you badly Trolletti?

Yeah, you sure "smoked" me with your killer "she was seen in front of the depository" argument.   :D :D :D

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Dumb challenge Iacoletti...If we find the camera man source we will confirm that was the 23rd and was Leavelle's interview of "Mrs Robert Reid"...You will ignore it and find some other specious naysaying point to cherry-pick...

This is your whole approach in a nutshell.   Make a claim and then go out and try to find evidence to support it.  You're basically admitting that the whole "this was taken on Saturday, November 23rd" was just a big bluff.  This is why you can't be trusted.

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Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2019, 07:21:48 PM »

 

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