JFK Assassination Forum

General Discussion & Debate => General Discussion & Debate => Topic started by: Fred Litwin on December 23, 2018, 07:03:58 PM

Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Fred Litwin on December 23, 2018, 07:03:58 PM
Historian Max Holland has reviewed my book, "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak."

https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more (https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more)

"Now Fred Litwin, in his new book, I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak, traces his transformation from a young, energetic conspiracist to the vigorous debunker he is today. The result is a brisk, bracing, witty, and surprisingly comprehensive read, and one that ought to be considered by anyone in Generation Z who is intrigued by the assassination and thinking of joining the research community."
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on December 23, 2018, 08:16:39 PM
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Historian Max Holland has reviewed my book, "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak."

https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more (https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more)

"Now Fred Litwin, in his new book, I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak, traces his transformation from a young, energetic conspiracist to the vigorous debunker he is today. The result is a brisk, bracing, witty, and surprisingly comprehensive read, and one that ought to be considered by anyone in Generation Z who is intrigued by the assassination and thinking of joining the research community."
Holland is, for me, hands down the smartest scholar on the assassination. He's researched deeply into the event and is able to place it in the larger context of the Cold War. For him Oswald wasn't driven by just personal demons; Oswald was a political animal who said he loathed the US, admired Castro, and was furious about JFK's covert war on Cuba. Notoriety, a desire to make history, a dislike of the world. Sure they played a role too (most likely). But we can't forget that Oswald was a well read person on the Cuban issue. I can't see how his views on that issue didn't affect his act.

This is nearly 25 years old but it holds up well: Holland on making sense of the assassination: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/holland.htm

Which raises a question, Mr. Litwin: what do you think Oswald's motivations were? Yes, it's an unanswerable question - Oswald himself may not have been able to articulate one; but many of the questions about this matter have no answers (did LHO use the scope or the iron sights?).
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Fred Litwin on December 23, 2018, 08:26:41 PM
Steve: The best book on Oswald's motivation is by Jean Davison, "Oswald's Game."  She believes that he read the article
in the New Orleans Times-Picayune in early september 1963 about Castro's warning to American leaders - that they
themselves would not be safe if attacks on Cuban leaders continues.  She believes that that infuriated Oswald, and
by chance, he had an opportunity to strike a blow for the Cuban revolution.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Rob Caprio on December 23, 2018, 08:40:24 PM
F.Y.I.

Quote on


Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry would write a book when he retired entitled JFK Assassination File and in it he made many comments that did NOT support the WC?s conclusions regarding the murder of JFK. Here is but one of them.

Quote on

Investigations were awaiting the results of the autopsy with the NA?VE assurance that the government would release a detailed autopsy report which could be used in the investigation. The photographs and autopsy evidence were NEVER released by the government. Apparently portions of the material have even been DESTROYED. The Warren Commission itself yielded to the political pressure and NEVER EXAMINED the autopsy photographs. (Jesse Curry, JFK Assassination File, p. 122) (Emphasis added)

Quote off

How in the world can you reach a conclusion on a murder involving bullet wounds IF you never look at the autopsy material? Furthermore, why in the world would this have been WITHHELD from the WC IF it really depicted the wounds claimed? IF LHO really shot JFK all by himself from behind why would this be necessary?

Quote

What changed this author's outlook so dramatically?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Don Echols on December 23, 2018, 09:08:34 PM
James C Jenkins,Standing at the Cold Shoulder of History. A great read. He totally disputes everything,published in the past 55 years.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on December 24, 2018, 06:02:08 AM
Holland is a well known CIA propagandist...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 24, 2018, 08:02:41 AM
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Holland is, for me, hands down the smartest scholar on the assassination. He's researched deeply into the event and is able to place it in the larger context of the Cold War. For him Oswald wasn't driven by just personal demons; Oswald was a political animal who said he loathed the US, admired Castro, and was furious about JFK's covert war on Cuba. Notoriety, a desire to make history, a dislike of the world. Sure they played a role too (most likely). But we can't forget that Oswald was a well read person on the Cuban issue. I can't see how his views on that issue didn't affect his act.

This is nearly 25 years old but it holds up well: Holland on making sense of the assassination: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/holland.htm

Which raises a question, Mr. Litwin: what do you think Oswald's motivations were? Yes, it's an unanswerable question - Oswald himself may not have been able to articulate one; but many of the questions about this matter have no answers (did LHO use the scope or the iron sights?).

Steve,

Oswald may have been recruited and trained and/or "MKULTRA-ed" by the KGB in the USSR.


-- Tommy  :)
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Jim Brunsman on December 25, 2018, 04:27:10 AM
You must be joking. Holland is an embarrassment to the JFK research community. Clearly a CIA asset, some of his ridiculous comments over the years have made me wretch. He goes right to the top of the list of disinformation agents beginning with Specter, Ford, Posner, Bugliosi, Myers and their ilk.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 25, 2018, 04:38:55 AM
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You must be joking. Holland is an embarrassment to the JFK research community. Clearly a CIA asset, some of his ridiculous comments over the years have made me wretch. He goes right to the top of the list of disinformation agents beginning with Specter, Ford, Posner, Bugliosi, Myers and their ilk.

Jim,

*retch

--Tommy  :)

PS  Even if Holland was a "CIA asset" (whatever that means), what would be so bad about that?

Are you one of those Tinfoil Hat Conspiracy Theorists who blame all the world's ills on the "evil, evil, evil" CIA, and think it should be shut down?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Jim Brunsman on December 25, 2018, 05:19:56 AM
No sir, I prefer plastic wrap instead of tin foil hats, just because I try to be original. You don't see a problem with a goofball like Holland espousing scientifically impossible theories in exchange for compensation from the CIA. I do. End of that particular story.

I believe in conspiracies more than most people since a conspiracy is a crime committed by two individuals in concert with each other. Those who cling to the hopelessly moronic SBT love to wield  "conspiracy" as a word weapon so that it no longer conveys its real meaning. You sir, used it in such a fashion, even tossing in the hackneyed "tinfoil hat" designation. One last thing about the CIA. I'm sure the record is mixed and there are outstanding patriotic Americans serving us every day. But there is also a long and terrifying record of CIA "activities" all over the globe spanning decades. Are you denying the truth of that also?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on December 25, 2018, 05:36:49 AM
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No sir, I prefer plastic wrap instead of tin foil hats, just because I try to be original. You don't see a problem with a goofball like Holland espousing scientifically impossible theories in exchange for compensation from the CIA. I do. End of that particular story.

I believe in conspiracies more than most people since a conspiracy is a crime committed by two individuals in concert with each other. Those who cling to the hopelessly moronic SBT love to wield  "conspiracy" as a word weapon so that it no longer conveys its real meaning. You sir, used it in such a fashion, even tossing in the hackneyed "tinfoil hat" designation. One last thing about the CIA. I'm sure the record is mixed and there are outstanding patriotic Americans serving us every day. But there is also a long and terrifying record of CIA "activities" all over the globe spanning decades. Are you denying the truth of that also?

Jim,

The CIA is a  band of MOFO ANGELS compared to the CHEKA, NKVD, OGPU, MGB, KGB, FSB/SVR, GRU, etc.

D'oh

-- Tommy  :)

Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Joe Elliott on December 28, 2018, 01:21:49 AM
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Historian Max Holland has reviewed my book, "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak."

https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more (https://www.washingtondecoded.com/site/2018/12/litwin.html#more)

"Now Fred Litwin, in his new book, I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak, traces his transformation from a young, energetic conspiracist to the vigorous debunker he is today. The result is a brisk, bracing, witty, and surprisingly comprehensive read, and one that ought to be considered by anyone in Generation Z who is intrigued by the assassination and thinking of joining the research community."
I have not yet read Mr. Litwin?s book so I cannot comment on it.
However, two researches who I do respect have commented on it: Quoting from Amazon.com?s page on Mr. Litwin?s book:

?As a young man growing up in the heyday of Kennedy assassination theorizing, Fred Litwin believed a conspiracy killed JFK. And then he grew, and he studied and he researched. The result is this volume, a thorough, cogent and meticulously argued case for a lone assassin. A seasoned conspiracy skeptic will learn new things here, and a conspiracy believer open to looking at the other side could do no better than this volume.?
-John McAdams, Associate Professor of Political Science at Marquette University and author of JFK Assassination Logic: How to Think about Claims of Conspiracy

?Mr. Litwin?s book is the best in many, many years in dealing with the truth about this horrendous piece of history?and exposing the fakirs, cons and opportunists who often call themselves ?historians.? A fine presentation!?
-Hugh Aynesworth, Author of November 22, 1963: Witness to History and JFK: Breaking the News
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Steve M. Galbraith on December 28, 2018, 05:49:36 PM
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Steve: The best book on Oswald's motivation is by Jean Davison, "Oswald's Game."  She believes that he read the article
in the New Orleans Times-Picayune in early september 1963 about Castro's warning to American leaders - that they
themselves would not be safe if attacks on Cuban leaders continues.  She believes that that infuriated Oswald, and
by chance, he had an opportunity to strike a blow for the Cuban revolution.
Fred: Yes, I have/read the book. She's an incredibly knowledgeable person on the finer details of the assassination. She also points to the very critical coverage of the Kennedy Administration's polices towards Cuba in the radical left press - the Guardian, the Daily Worker - that Oswald read. Several issues reprinted Castro's speeches denouncing the Kennedy Administration for the guerilla attacks on Cuban soil.

Max Holland mentions that threat from Castro as well in the piece I linked above. Oswald must have read it; it was in the New Orleans Times Picayune. It's interesting that Marina said she came home one day in early September late August (according to her account in the McMillan book) after walking their child and saw Oswald with his rifle dry-firing it. He told her (she said), "Fidel needs help." Three weeks later he's at the Cuban consulate in Mexico City trying to get into Cuba. I wonder if the threat by Fidel was related to Oswald's actions?

Still, the impetuous nature of his act makes me question his motives: he goes to retrieve his rifle on a Thursday, he gets a ride from a friend, he apparently didn't test/practice with the rifle over those two months that it was in the garage, he didn't seem to have any escape route. In contrast to the Walker attempt there wasn't much planning in this action. If he was driven by JFK's policies towards Cuba then why wait until the last second? It seemed more of an impulsive act than a rational one.

Good luck with the book.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on January 31, 2019, 06:17:30 PM
I just got a 3 day suspension on a Facebook group page for not providing sources...Fred Litwin is over there answering everything with "You have no evidence"...The site is run by Jim Hess and has a strict set of rules that appear to be designed to keep evidence honest but they are actually being used to help bolster Lone Nutter lies...It takes a real pair to run an operation that dares use the title "Fair Play" and then use that kind of cheap ruse to deny real evidence...I got time-out for failing to source Clint Hill's statement where he said he huddled over Kennedy and could see a plug of skull and flesh in the backseat..Hill detailed that the way he ended up on top of JFK he could see down into a void in the back of his head where the brain had been blown out...In a You-Tube video Hill places his hand over the rear occipital location of this wound and shows the exact place and size for the Parkland wound...Also, I once saw a book talk where Hill was talking about that wound and a minder came over and whispered in his ear and he then pulled in to line with the official wounds...I tried to find that video to no avail...

Another thing I got tagged for was failing to prove Clyde Johnson was beaten-up before his appearance at the Garrison Trial...There was a hospital record for this...McAdams dishonestly conflated Johnson's being shot-gunned to death with this beating and did not mention it in his dishonest smear job of Louisiana politician Clyde Johnson who was visited by Shaw, Oswald, and Ruby and paid money to continue his anti-Kennedy campaign speeches...Johnson was badly beaten right before his appearance at Garrison's Trial in order to testify to the CIA association of Ruby, Oswald, and Shaw that he witnessed and was unable to testify...Fred Litwin's methodology is to side with bullies who ask you to go out and collect the actual records on this or lose your posting privileges...Litwin responds "You have no evidence Clyde Johnson was beaten" and there you see the means by which Fred Litwin makes his case...

Another thing Fred denied and said there was no evidence for was Clay Shaw's use of the alias "Clay Bertrand"...Garrison found many people who witnessed Shaw using this alias but none would risk testifying for him since he was unpopular for cracking down in the New Orleans nightclub district Shaw frequented...FBI informant Lawrence Schiller came forward and said FBI had done an investigation of the New Orleans homosexual underground and found witnesses "in the double digits" to Shaw's using the alias Bertrand...Shaw had used this alias to call Dean Andrews in order to get legal representation for Oswald after the assassination...FBI criminally buried those records and obstructed Garrison...Fred Litwin's response to this is "You have no evidence"...



 
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Richard Smith on January 31, 2019, 06:43:40 PM
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Fred: Yes, I have/read the book. She's an incredibly knowledgeable person on the finer details of the assassination. She also points to the very critical coverage of the Kennedy Administration's polices towards Cuba in the radical left press - the Guardian, the Daily Worker - that Oswald read. Several issues reprinted Castro's speeches denouncing the Kennedy Administration for the guerilla attacks on Cuban soil.

Max Holland mentions that threat from Castro as well in the piece I linked above. Oswald must have read it; it was in the New Orleans Times Picayune. It's interesting that Marina said she came home one day in early September after walking their child and saw Oswald with his rifle dry-firing it. He told her (she said), "Fidel needs help." Three weeks later he's at the Cuban consulate in Mexico City trying to get into Cuba. I wonder if the threat by Fidel was related to Oswald's actions?

Still, the impetuous nature of his act makes me question his motives: he goes to retrieve his rifle on a Thursday, he gets a ride from a friend, he apparently didn't test/practice with the rifle over those two months that it was in the garage, he didn't seem to have any escape route. In contrast to the Walker attempt there wasn't much planning in this action. If he was driven by JFK's policies towards Cuba then why wait until the last second? It seemed more of an impulsive act than a rational one.

Good luck with the book.

Because Oswald's opportunity to assassinate JFK arose strictly by chance, that tells us his motive had to be an impulsive one in that situation.  Most assassins tell us a great about themselves and their motivations by who they decide to target.  They generally have to seek out this person.  So the decision as to who they target is important in understanding their motivation.  Oswald was not in that situation.  The opportunity to assassinate JFK fell into his lap.  JFK came to him instead of the reverse.  Even Oswald probably could not articulate the why in a manner that makes any real sense because his act was not that of a rational person.  He likely would have contrived some noble societal purpose but when all is said in done what was going on is that Oswald couldn't stand to be ignored.  He wanted someone to take notice of him.  The extent to which there was any genuine political motivation behind his act is even more speculative.   Oswald needed a cause to promote himself.  He couldn't be a player in mainstream politics but being part of a fringe element allowed him to at least create a fantasy that he was someone important and smarter than the average citizen who he held in contempt.  So he cultivated this fantasy image of himself as some type of revolutionary figure.  It wasn't the cause but desire to be known that was his primary motivation.  The cause was a means to an end in my opinion.  He certainly could have convinced himself that he was acting for noble political reasons - not many people will acknowledge that they are evil - but that was intertwined with a desire to make his mark.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Bill Chapman on January 31, 2019, 08:34:49 PM
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Because Oswald's opportunity to assassinate JFK arose strictly by chance, that tells us his motive had to be an impulsive one in that situation.  Most assassins tell us a great about themselves and their motivations by who they decide to target.  They generally have to seek out this person.  So the decision as to who they target is important in understanding their motivation.  Oswald was not in that situation.  The opportunity to assassinate JFK fell into his lap.  JFK came to him instead of the reverse.  Even Oswald probably could not articulate the why in a manner that makes any real sense because his act was not that of a rational person.  He likely would have contrived some noble societal purpose but when all is said in done what was going on is that Oswald couldn't stand to be ignored.  He wanted someone to take notice of him.  The extent to which there was any genuine political motivation behind his act is even more speculative.   Oswald needed a cause to promote himself.  He couldn't be a player in mainstream politics but being part of a fringe element allowed him to at least create a fantasy that he was someone important and smarter than the average citizen who he held in contempt.  So he cultivated this fantasy image of himself as some type of revolutionary figure.  It wasn't the cause but desire to be known that was his primary motivation.  The cause was a means to an end in my opinion.  He certainly could have convinced himself that he was acting for noble political reasons - not many people will acknowledge that they are evil - but that was intertwined with a desire to make his mark.

 Thumb1:

Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Fred Litwin on February 01, 2019, 06:33:01 PM
And, guess what Brian?  You couldn't provide ANY evidence for any of your statements at
FP4JFK.  All you can do it quote conspiracy books.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 01, 2019, 07:56:53 PM
I'm pretty sure most credible researchers understand by now that all Litwin has is saying "You have no evidence" in the face of evidence he doesn't want to admit...It takes a real pair of balls to form a Facebook group page and then try to get away with such a cheap denial method that involves Lone Nutter yes-men piling on truth-tellers with such a cheap tactic...

I will be there to bear witness against you Mr Litwin in a court where you can't get away with this low-blow stuff...

Anyone who tries to straight-facedly say Shaw did not use the alias Bertrand is a crass liar and needs to be judged according to those who violate god and reality with evil contempt and serpent-like trickery....
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Fred Litwin on February 01, 2019, 09:43:38 PM
You're going to bear witness against me in a court?  What, are you delusional?

Again, I'll repeat the challenge from FP4JFK...if you have evidence that Shaw was Bertrand, then post it.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 01, 2019, 11:51:53 PM
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Because Oswald's opportunity to assassinate JFK arose strictly by chance, that tells us his motive had to be an impulsive one in that situation.  Most assassins tell us a great about themselves and their motivations by who they decide to target.  They generally have to seek out this person.  So the decision as to who they target is important in understanding their motivation.  Oswald was not in that situation.  The opportunity to assassinate JFK fell into his lap.  JFK came to him instead of the reverse.  Even Oswald probably could not articulate the why in a manner that makes any real sense because his act was not that of a rational person.  He likely would have contrived some noble societal purpose but when all is said in done what was going on is that Oswald couldn't stand to be ignored.  He wanted someone to take notice of him.  The extent to which there was any genuine political motivation behind his act is even more speculative.   Oswald needed a cause to promote himself.  He couldn't be a player in mainstream politics but being part of a fringe element allowed him to at least create a fantasy that he was someone important and smarter than the average citizen who he held in contempt.  So he cultivated this fantasy image of himself as some type of revolutionary figure.  It wasn't the cause but desire to be known that was his primary motivation.  The cause was a means to an end in my opinion.  He certainly could have convinced himself that he was acting for noble political reasons - not many people will acknowledge that they are evil - but that was intertwined with a desire to make his mark.

Cool story, bro.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 01, 2019, 11:52:48 PM
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I just got a 3 day suspension on Facebook group page.

The only sensible thing Hess has ever done.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 02, 2019, 01:13:07 AM
I assume Hess is not a member...If he is delete this:

Jim Hess reminds me of a cheezy tent preacher con-man or southern Ku Klux Klan shining devil...All manners and no soul while he invites you in to his political den of iniquity with the good guy politeness and glad hand of a slippery silver tongue...He's a typical product of our hinterland's conservative sector, dishonest as the devil and slick as Satan without an honest bone in his body...Just look at his picture...Pathetic coward that he is he only exists within the safety and protection of his self-serving aggressive rules that always work in his favor because, like all petty dictators, he gets to rule on his own doings and I would bet he always wins...Typical of his sort, the more you call him on this the more he cowars behind "fair" warnings and an even stricter call towards the self-imposed, self-serving rules that will get him out of actually, fairly answering to this dirty trick posing as stricture...As in any movie that exposes such a character, when the truth is called-out against his slanted tactics he threatens punishment as if the sacred right he embodies were being challenged...Literature through the ages has cited these types due to the example of their danger, from McBeth to the Wizard of OZ...They are the last people to see that they are not in fear of rules or persons who break them, but are instead afraid of the truth and how it will undo their deal with the devil and the power it brings them...A more apt analogy would be the ROTC jocks in 'Animal House' and the their self-mocking unawares fraternity...

It takes a pretty pathetic small man to create a strictly-guarded legal evidence-only site that is based on what can fairly be said to be one of the most corrupted investigations in human history where the trusted authorities deliberately destroyed or prevented most of the critical evidence...It is a pretty cheezy play and the worst sort of dishonest opportunism...What is even more repulsive is the phony authority the overseers of that crooked house swagger over the membership with when their obvious intent is the opposite and no one can challenge or oppose them without the rules automatically favoring them and unjustly punishing the victims, who, if truth happens to have anything to do with this sordid process, happen to be correct in what they are saying...The site is designed by rule and nature to give victory to the cheaters and deny those who tell the truth...This is the definition of wicked and not only does Hess (any relation to Herman?) take way too much pleasure enforcing this malevolent playing field but he also revels in the process while basking in the vile authority of false light and power...Like a magnetic force of non-truth all the main deniers scurry to his unholy sanctuary and join in his Satanic guard...These men are guardians of principle and good reason...They give no heed to the sheer evil they protect and the dangerous potential they represent...

America is supposed to be a place where no man would dare risk boasting or gloating in the wickedness of enforcing cowardly treason and back-shooting by powerful institutions of so-called democracy...America is supposed to be a place where any scoundrel who dared would fear in hesitation going out and actually creating a front for furtherance of such infernal subterfuge and dastardly betrayal...The idea of creating a so-called moral front for such underhanded treason is something that should strike fear in those who attempt it of such overbearing influence that no one would dare it due to its inherent foulness and their awareness of its inevitable visiting of that foul nature upon themselves...These men are dangerous because they seem not to detect the extent of the wickedness of what they do...They have no sense of the outright anti-democratic nature of the step they have taken or the serious lines it has crossed...No sense of how much of an anti-American, anti-democratic force they represent or its damaging potential towards American democracy...Not only is what they do tyranny, but it is bold tyranny the sort of which threatens to imperil the very foundation of our republic and what it stands for...

You will find with these cheap charlatans that the more you call them on this the more they will heighten the threat of this cheap device and any man of sensible mind and intelligence will see the only reason they do it is because they are very well aware that what you are telling is the truth and they need the Satan's shield of "evidence" to avoid that very thing in order to maintain their kingdom of darkness...Never mind that you have already provided that evidence...Let these people not linger long in America...And I see FBI has no problem allowing foreigners to post fake news and use the internet for anti-American purposes as long as it is backing their dirty presidential assassinations...

             
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Steve Logan on February 02, 2019, 01:19:18 AM
As opposed to a looney narcissist that drives around under the influence of God knows what singing along to Jefferson Airplane.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Bill Chapman on February 02, 2019, 01:42:40 AM
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I assume Hess is not a member...If he is delete this:

Jim Hess reminds me of a cheezy tent preacher con-man or southern Ku Klux Klan shining devil...All manners and no soul while he invites you in to his political den of iniquity with the good guy politeness and glad hand of a slippery silver tongue...He's a typical product of our hinterland's conservative sector, dishonest as the devil and slick as Satan without an honest bone in his body...Just look at his picture...Pathetic coward that he is he only exists within the safety and protection of his self-serving aggressive rules that always work in his favor because, like all petty dictators, he gets to rule on his own doings and I would bet he always wins...Typical of his sort, the more you call him on this the more he cowars behind "fair" warnings and an even stricter call towards the self-imposed, self-serving rules that will get him out of actually, fairly answering to this dirty trick posing as stricture...As in any movie that exposes such a character, when the truth is called-out against his slanted tactics he threatens punishment as if the sacred right he embodies were being challenged...Literature through the ages has cited these types due to the example of their danger, from McBeth to the Wizard of OZ...They are the last people to see that they are not in fear of rules or persons who break them, but are instead afraid of the truth and how it will undo their deal with the devil and the power it brings them...A more apt analogy would be the ROTC jocks in 'Animal House' and the their self-mocking unawares fraternity...

It takes a pretty pathetic small man to create a strictly-guarded legal evidence-only site that is based on what can fairly be said to be one of the most corrupted investigations in human history where the trusted authorities deliberately destroyed or prevented most of the critical evidence...It is a pretty cheezy play and the worst sort of dishonest opportunism...What is even more repulsive is the phony authority the overseers of that crooked house swagger over the membership with when their obvious intent is the opposite and no one can challenge or oppose them without the rules automatically favoring them and unjustly punishing the victims, who, if truth happens to have anything to do with this sordid process, happen to be correct in what they are saying...The site is designed by rule and nature to give victory to the cheaters and deny those who tell the truth...This is the definition of wicked and not only does Hess (any relation to Herman?) take way too much pleasure enforcing this malevolent playing field but he also revels in the process while basking in the vile authority of false light and power...Like a magnetic force of non-truth all the main deniers scurry to his unholy sanctuary and join in his Satanic guard...These men are guardians of principle and good reason...They give no heed to the sheer evil they protect and the dangerous potential they represent...

America is supposed to be a place where no man would dare risk boasting or gloating in the wickedness of enforcing cowardly treason and back-shooting by powerful institutions of so-called democracy...America is supposed to be a place where any scoundrel who dared would fear in hesitation going out and actually creating a front for furtherance of such infernal subterfuge and dastardly betrayal...The idea of creating a so-called moral front for such underhanded treason is something that should strike fear in those who attempt it of such overbearing influence that no one would dare it due to its inherent foulness and their awareness of its inevitable visiting of that foul nature upon themselves...These men are dangerous because they seem not to detect the extent of the wickedness of what they do...They have no sense of the outright anti-democratic nature of the step they have taken or the serious lines it has crossed...No sense of how much of an anti-American, anti-democratic force they represent or its damaging potential towards American democracy...Not only is what they do tyranny, but it is bold tyranny the sort of which threatens to imperil the very foundation of our republic and what it stands for...

You will find with these cheap charlatans that the more you call them on this the more they will heighten the threat of this cheap device and any man of sensible mind and intelligence will see the only reason they do it is because they are very well aware that what you are telling is the truth and they need the Satan's shield of "evidence" to avoid that very thing in order to maintain their kingdom of darkness...Never mind that you have already provided that evidence...Let these people not linger long in America...And I see FBI has no problem allowing foreigners to post fake news and use the internet for anti-American purposes as long as it is backing their dirty presidential assassinations...

             

Mr. Hess announced about a year or so here that he was seriously ill and didn't expect beat his illness. I think he started a crowd-source thing. I offered my sympathies at the time. I think he posted one or twice more, but I haven't seen him here since.

Update: I've just revisited his former site at http://jameshess.com/?reqp=1&reqr=
I see that it's up for resale, which could indicate that Mr. Hess may have passed away.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 02, 2019, 03:41:38 PM
I think you could probably learn a lot about that Facebook group page by looking at Jim Hess and his personality profile...Just look at the photo of him in his proud Navy cap...You can tell a lot about Jim, his agenda, and how he runs his Facebook group page from this...Jim is tripping and playing Admiral with his Facebook group page...There's a rule on the internet that the bigger the horse's ass the harder the moderation and these types are trying to prove something and using their Facebook moderation to do it...I get it now and the site is being run by a goofy military code where Hess is the commander and the members are being hazed by a strict set of rules they have to live up to or face punishment...I guess what Hess is is like the Swiftboat brown shirts doing Kennedy assassination debate...

The site is definitely a Lone Nutter site that says it is CT-tolerant but anyone can see that is a joke and the coward Hess has set up a set of rules to make sure he always wins the arguments for the Lone Nutter side...The one sell-out moderator, Chris Peeks, pretends to back the Conspiracy side but he's another concentration camp kapo who is in bed with the ownership and playing their game while saying he's openly CT...He has a Birmingham Alabama background and was in the army...Jerry Dealey is a member here...Like I said - give a ****heel a little power and you get an internet moderator...Vichy working with the reich...Hess gathers the Barney Fife-types for his moderator team...The types who want internet power but are too dumb or intellectually/morally deficient to see the deal with the devil they are making...Hitler made of nation out of these types...

The reason that Facebook group page is a pure coward's play is because anyone who has deeply studied the assassination would know that the powers that be covered-up most of the evidence criminally...What Navy goon Hess does is play dumb and pretend he's a forthright broker trying to force the issue by honest standards of evidence when all he is doing is forcing the public to honor the official evidence and dirty court decisions...Hess's game is a cowardly and dishonest one where he disallows anything that can't be proven at a court level while "fairly" asking the public to go out from scratch and go do the investigation that only the rotten powers that be could have done and then pretend everything's fair and everyone was given an even chance...There's a place for people like this and it is called "hell"...Our country has suffered enough from this upsurge of national socialist-type patriots and Mr Hess is a pure example...Admiral Hess and his ship of fools pretend they are the victims of nutty CT-er's and their wild claims and are finally putting some rationality to the issue, but all it is is a kangaroo FOX-tard tribunal where the Lone Nutters always win because you have failed to meet the "rules" and produce acceptable evidence...It takes a real coward to play that kind of dirty game, especially when the stakes are backing the destruction of the democracy that Navy cap pretends to defend...There's always some loser willing to step-up and defend the indefensible for his military order-givers in order to get a merit badge from his military higher-ups...What the agenda at "Fair Play" is is a normalization of military rule in the public sector and the fascist shutting down of democratic free speech under the guise of Kennedy discussion...Under the guise of "rules" because rules are pure and those who enforce them are granted purity by enforcing them and those who violate them are in violation and therefore deserving of punishment...The last good example of this kind of zealously-pursued forcing of order was the original Nazis and that is what Hess represents whether he's too stupid to realize it or not...Thinking you're some kind of hot shot because you justify the cowardly back-shooting of a president and taking power on a petty dictator Facebook site by that means is about as low as you can get...The site is a Lone Nutter bully pit posing as a fair rules site...I'll bet if you look at who gets suspended and moderated it is always Conspiracy researchers and never the Lone Nut Devils who have found a safe place under Hess to conduct their treacherous deceit while bragging how rules-abiding they are...Hess is some kind of wannabee Admiral joker living out his military fantasy by bossing around the public under cowardly rules and doing his service for the Kennedy killers and their undoing of democracy...The unspoken word there is we don't care if our government was overthrown from within by a murdering fascist cabal as long as you can't prove it by "evidence"...The best thing to do with that kind of site is make it go away with divestment...The sooner the better and may the forces of the Universe have an appropriate fate awaiting Mr Hess and his ill-spirited cowardice...Mr Hess is a foray of his moniker into the American theater...One that should be quickly crushed and destroyed...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Fred Litwin on February 03, 2019, 04:26:38 AM
Brian, you need help. I hope you get it quickly.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 03, 2019, 05:22:06 AM
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And, guess what Brian?  You couldn't provide ANY evidence for any of your statements at
FP4JFK.  All you can do it quote conspiracy books.

I  am still waiting for the evidence that convinced you that no conspiracy took place in the JFK assassination.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Rob Caprio on February 03, 2019, 05:23:58 AM
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I'm pretty sure most credible researchers understand by now that all Litwin has is saying "You have no evidence" in the face of evidence he doesn't want to admit...It takes a real pair of balls to form a website that includes the title "Fair Play" and then try to get away with such a cheap denial method that involves Lone Nutter yes-men piling on truth-tellers with such a cheap tactic...

I will be there to bear witness against you Mr Litwin in a court where you can't get away with this low-blow stuff...

Anyone who tries to straight-facedly say Shaw did not use the alias Bertrand is a crass liar and needs to be judged according to those who violate god and reality with evil contempt and serpent-like trickery....

It's Hess' site. That says it all.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 03, 2019, 05:27:35 AM
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Brian, you need help. I hope you get it quickly.

You have no evidence of that Fred...You and the garden variety fascist goon Hess don't understand the way democracy works...When a government goes rottenly corrupt and organizes around the murder of a president and destruction of the normal order of rule of law the correct democratic response is not to form a private society of deniers who pretend evil assassination and fascist take-over is some sort of moot debate club parlor game for entertainment...When persons organize around that cowardly state terrorism and betrayal they are working in the opposite direction from where democracy needs to go under such circumstances ...A properly maintained healthy democracy was deliberately designed to fall back to the power of the people if such an upset of the intended power structure occurred...Those who do the opposite and defend the offense by offering fake apology through sophist logic that pretends to adhere to a higher methodological approach but is actually deceptively spun evasion and legal tricks, all guarded by an aggressive tyrant and his rules, those people are taking the side of the murderers and betrayers and therefore acting against democracy and its purpose...Those people can be correctly called the enemies of democracy and can be fairly determined to be aligning with the evil doers...And since these people are directly challenging our democracy and almost reveling in it they should also be treated accordingly according to the very powers those original writs bestow on us...Backing evil murder and betrayal of democracy by fascist elements of government is no slight offense and it should be treated as such like it has been when attempted in Europe...Mr Litwin appears to have no sense of the seriousness of what he does or its ramifications...It is my prayer that God and karma familiarize him quickly and poetically... 

Don't think for a second that Mr Litwin doesn't know Clay Shaw was Clay Bertrand or that Clint Hill immediately viewed a disgorging exit wound when he huddled over Kennedy...Mr Litwin is a courtier of dark order and servant of Sauron...He's not saying I'm wrong...He's just saying I have no evidence...

Mr Hess will learn the hard lesson of all tyrants...He will learn that he can't ban truth and his rule only goes as far as the borders of his murder glee club...Truth has a bad habit of coming back hard at those who try to ban it... 
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 03, 2019, 05:36:33 AM
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I  am still waiting for the evidence that convinced you that no conspiracy took place in the JFK assassination.

And therein is the trick...Ask that at Fred's denial site that is run by a typical Nazi goon who is living out some kind of Navy fantasy where his Kennedy page is a Navy ship and everyone has to follow his orders (I think we know who needs the help here and it's not me), and you'll quickly have moderator problems with pencil-necks piling on you...That's usually the gist of it - that they are more guilty of what they accuse you of than anybody...There was a bunch of goons running around Germany on the 1930's that went by the exact same game plan...

The person who needs the help is the one who a) Thinks he's getting away with that pathetic "You have no evidence" trick against the overwhelming evidence of conspiracy in the assassination, b) Decides the right thing to do is back CIA fascism and destruction of American democracy...It is quite obvious to healthy minds that the only reason those Fair Play Nazis do what they do is because they are very aware there's strong evidence for government conspiracy...They're just cowards who find it easier to fight for the murderers...It makes FOX losers feel powerful because of their own awareness of their shortcomings...

Those guys get off on evil denial and thuggish attacking of truth-tellers trying to defend someone against monstrous evil...They think it's a game...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on February 03, 2019, 03:51:50 PM
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And therein is the trick...Ask that at Fred's denial site that is run by a typical Nazi goon who is living out some kind of Navy fantasy where his Kennedy page is a Navy ship and everyone has to follow his orders (I think we know who needs the help here and it's not me), and you'll quickly have moderator problems with pencil-necks piling on you...That's usually the gist of it - that they are more guilty of what they accuse you of than anybody...There was a bunch of goons running around Germany on the 1930's that went by the exact same game plan...

The person who needs the help is the one who a) Thinks he's getting away with that pathetic "You have no evidence" trick against the overwhelming evidence of conspiracy in the assassination, b) Decides the right thing to do is back CIA fascism and destruction of American democracy...It is quite obvious to healthy minds that the only reason those Fair Play Nazis do what they do is because they are very aware there's strong evidence for government conspiracy...They're just cowards who find it easier to fight for the murderers...It makes FOX losers feel powerful because of their own awareness of their shortcomings...

Those guys get off on evil denial and thuggish attacking of truth-tellers trying to defend someone against monstrous evil...They think it's a game...
Oh, let's all listen to Albert !!!  He has SO much to say, as you can see.  And he doesn't take a bath, either.... 
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 03, 2019, 05:03:58 PM
OBlazney is over there teaming up ...The Deep Politics site says it has a strict set of rules that disallows Lone Nutters...Lauren has no problem with OBlazney posting over there even though he's over cavorting with the worst Lone Nutters on a Facebook group page...OBlazney posted: "Oswald shot Kennedy, get over it" there.

Never any substance or intelligent response to the point from OBlazney...
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 03, 2019, 07:12:34 PM
DiEugenio wrote:

" How hard up is Litwin?

First, he hangs out now at McRae's menagerie.  You know, where people go who have been thrown out of here.

What he is doing over there points out the difference between this forum and McRae's and why I would never post there. "

What Jim is doing is saying people have been justly thrown out of the Education Forum and end up at Duncan's forum due to their unfitness...That's dishonest...Duncan quit the Education Forum because the moderation was flagrantly in favor of Kamp and his bad evidence...I got thrown out because I disproved the Prayer Man claim...Jim posted that I was suspended from the Education Forum for too much vitriol towards the members...Again, highly dishonest...I was banned because I proved Kamp and Stancak were posting crap research and the moderator was too incompetent to realize it...

Jim isn't being honest because the only reason he doesn't post over here is because he knows he'll have to respond on a fair playing field where he isn't protected by biased moderators...Jim pretends that I haven't presented serious research over the last couple of years that proves Prayer Man is Sarah Stanton...He speaks with a righteous tone over Litwin ignoring evidence but then commits an even worse offense himself with the Prayer Man evidence...Jim calls for a better scan but he outright ignores that I have already proven we don't need any better images and can prove Prayer Man is Stanton using the current images...

In the 9 months since I discovered what is probably the most important discovery in assassination research in 4 decades I have never seen Jim recognize it or even mention it once...Bear in mind Mr DiEugenio is lecturing Litwin for ignoring evidence when he himself has never once spoken about my discovery of Stanton's relatives saying she saw Oswald by the 2nd floor staircase with a soda...Jim was a big denier of Oswald having a Coke but here we have a second witness confirming it...What does DiEugenio do? He ignores it and makes a post suggesting my banning at the Education Forum for providing what is probably the best discovery in 4 decades is deserved...

Oh, and another thing...Jim appears to be ignorant of the fact Litwin posts at the Education Forum and posted the same stuff there...

No, Jim doesn't come here to honestly argue because he knows he'll have to answer things he's allowed to ignore at the Education Forum...


Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Duncan MacRae on February 04, 2019, 04:10:58 PM
Quote
DiEugenio wrote:

" How hard up is Litwin?

First, he hangs out now at McRae's menagerie.  You know, where people go who have been thrown out of here.

What he is doing over there points out the difference between this forum and McRae's and why I would never post there. "

The DiEugenio Formula: A knew B + B knew C = C Knew A  ???

The illiterate Wee Jimmy DiNobrainio who can't even spell my name correctly, tells his idiotic lies because he has never recovered from the shame
and the continuing embarrassment of being exposed by me, many years ago, as a secret supporter of the late Bill Cooper's "The driver shot JFK" theory.
No wonder he deleted the evidence of his support for Cooper and turned to Burger munching for comfort.
Long live the Burger munching double chinned wonder, he amuses me greatly.  :)

(https://images.freeimages.com/images/premium/previews/1382/13826628-cartoon-fat-man-with-fast-food.jpg)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 04, 2019, 05:14:05 PM
Jim is aggressive yet less than truthful where it counts...He posted that he was falsely accused by Duncan of backing the Greer shot Kennedy theory...This is what Jim does...He restricts the narrative to only his version and then ignores everything else...The reason he doesn't post here is because he knows he wouldn't get away with that over here where he would be forced to answer the truth he's evading...Don't get me wrong...The good side of DiEugenio offers literally the best Conspiracy research on the internet, but Jim has a giant blind side he just doesn't seem to get no matter how many times he's told...He refuses to admit he's ever wrong on anything and uses his moderator-protected forums to ignore facts...Just look at any of Jim's articles and you will see a righteous stance where he rightfully calls out people for ignoring evidence...Jim has been making a living off his skill at exposing fact-evaders for many decades...And that's the whole point - when someone like Jim who has so much credibility backs nuts and crazies like Barker and Kamp it serves as a huge set-back for legitimate skilled researchers who are best at offering the good evidence Jim espouses...Jim betrays what he aspires towards and does it in a way that is similar to the people he criticizes...And then he plays dumb with one of his self-serving posts where he answers to his own thinking instead of answering to the best evidence that is out there for anyone to see...If you read his entries you'll see he pretends that the evidence I've been posting hasn't been out there for several years...Jim acts as if the only mark I have ever made on research is vitriol...That's incredibly dishonest and Jim isn't going to go out of his way to honestly review the evidence I've posted...

Jim is accompanied by the rest of the community that say nothing while Jim unfairly ignores my evidence...There's not one person who taps Jim on the shoulder and says "Well, to be truthful Brian did post this and I think it has merit and deserves an answer"...Instead they go right to the unfair maligning and concentrate on false accusations of site rules violations or "vitriol"...There's no one who is good enough that they have the right to deny skilled analysis of the first level that finally solves an issue...It's a betrayal to the very ethics Jim espouses that he has been allowed to get away with because of his unchecked popularity amongst conspiracy researchers...

We're not taking Greer shot Kennedy here Jim...We're talking Mary Meyer and Sarah Stanton...You've seriously come in on the wrong side on several major conspiracy issues and you've backed some of the biggest knucklehead researchers around in doing so...You've also helped persecute a very skilled researcher and aided in his being unfairly censored, no matter how much you use pretend unawareness to deny it...Time for you to practice what you preach and stop working against your own cause...

The Prayer Man issue does not need a better scan to resolve...If you bothered to read my postings you would see that Prayer Man has been reasonably proven to be Sarah Stanton by the best evidence...It is quite foolish and quite proving of what I'm saying here for you to not realize any better scan will only show what I have already proven even more clearly...

You live in a dishonest shadow where you think your dishonest excuses that you posted on the Education Forum are letting you get away with openly ignoring that Buell Frazier discussed my evidence with Debra Conway and he admitted Prayer Man was Stanton...What would give you the right to call yourself a legitimate conspiracy researcher and ignore that? What gives you the right to ignore Stanton saw Oswald with a Coke or that I sent a photo of Gerladean Reid to Groden and he confirmed that was the woman he interviewed? Vitriol Jim, or just facts you don't want to admit?...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 04, 2019, 05:34:13 PM
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since I discovered what is probably the most important discovery in assassination research in 4 decades

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/dontfeed.gif)

Quote
Bear in mind Mr DiEugenio is lecturing Litwin for ignoring evidence when he himself has never once spoken about my discovery of Stanton's relatives saying she saw Oswald by the 2nd floor staircase with a soda

That's because Stanton's relatives didn't say she saw Oswald by the 2nd floor staircase with a soda.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 04, 2019, 05:39:50 PM
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The Prayer Man issue does not need a better scan to resolve...If you bothered to read my postings you would see that Prayer Man has been reasonably proven to be Sarah Stanton by the best evidence...

Pure unadulterated  BS:

Quote
You live in a dishonest shadow where you think your dishonest excuses that you posted on the Education Forum are letting you get away with openly ignoring that Buell Frazier discussed my evidence with Debra Conway and he admitted Prayer Man was Stanton...

Let's see/hear the interview.

Quote
What would give you the right to call yourself a legitimate conspiracy researcher and ignore that? What gives you the right to ignore Stanton saw Oswald with a Coke or that I sent a photo of Gerladean Reid to Groden and he confirmed that was the woman he interviewed?

Groden was punked.  Jeraldean Reid died in 1973.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 04, 2019, 06:08:47 PM
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Groden was punked.  Jeraldean Reid died in 1973.

I'm ignoring Iacoletti's naysay trolling...But I'm not sure on this one and I'm not exactly sure Groden confirmed the woman in the photo I sent him was the woman he interviewed...That one needs to be further examined...But if Navy Intel ops were "punking" Groden that tells you something...To be honest (which is much more than Iacoletti offers) if Oswald had a soda when he spoke to Stanton it makes you wonder about this alleged claim...

Iacoletti refuses to answer the logic that Oswald had to be at the 2nd floor staircase landing so we can ignore his naysay trolling on that one...if Oswald were at the front stairs Reid would have seen him on her way out as she described in her testimony (that Iacoletti ignores)...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 04, 2019, 06:34:03 PM
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Iacoletti refuses to answer the logic that Oswald had to be at the 2nd floor staircase landing so we can ignore his naysay trolling on that one...

What you call "logic" and what you claimed the relatives said are two different things.  They didn't say "2nd floor staircase landing".  Period.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 04, 2019, 06:43:30 PM
I just got off the phone with Robert Groden and he told me he spoke to his witness in 1970 or 71...He's sticking with the claim that the photo I sent him is the woman he talked to...

DiEugenio got some things wrong...Groden just told me that he wasn't threatened, but this Mrs Reid was and that she was genuinely scared when he talked to her...

Jim is once again missing the obvious and uncredibly dismissing an important witness like he usually does...

The moderation on JFK internet sites decides the best thing to do is censor me from discussing this incredibly important evidence...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 04, 2019, 07:09:25 PM
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I just got off the phone with Robert Groden and he told me he spoke to his witness in 1970 or 71...He's sticking with the claim that the photo I sent him is the woman he talked to...

Of course you did.

Did he mention why he never mentioned this conversation until 2013 when he published "JFK Absolute Proof"?  Or why he thought Mrs. Robert Reid was a different woman named Delores?  Or why he thought her name was spelled "Geraldine"?
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 04, 2019, 07:32:20 PM
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Of course you did.

Did he mention why he never mentioned this conversation until 2013 when he published "JFK Absolute Proof"?  Or why he thought Mrs. Robert Reid was a different woman named Delores?  Or why he thought her name was spelled "Geraldine"?

Naysaying again...

As he just told me, he promised this woman he would not tell her story until she died...I think what the detective-skill challenged doubters are missing here is either Mrs Robert Reid and this woman are the same person and FBI lied about her testimony or there is a mystery witness who was buried... 

I think the obvious explanation is, like Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold, we have a 3rd very dangerous witness to Oswald's location in or around the 2nd floor lunch room that FBI radically omitted the full story of...

Groden just told me that he didn't find out that she was dead until years after...If Iacoletti doesn't believe this well he can go (what Duncan's rules won't let me say)...

 
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on February 04, 2019, 11:54:49 PM
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Naysaying again...

As he just told me, he promised this woman he would not tell her story until she died...I think what the detective-skill challenged doubters are missing here is either Mrs Robert Reid and this woman are the same person and FBI lied about her testimony or there is a mystery witness who was buried... 

I think the obvious explanation is, like Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold, we have a 3rd very dangerous witness to Oswald's location in or around the 2nd floor lunch room that FBI radically omitted the full story of...

Groden just told me that he didn't find out that she was dead until years after...If Iacoletti doesn't believe this well he can go (what Duncan's rules won't let me say)...

 

Brian,

Why trust Groden?

After all, he screwed up when he went to Lovelady's home and took a photo of him wearing a short-sleeved, vertically-striped shirt instead of the long-sleeved, bold plaid shirt he'd worn on 11/22/63.

LOL

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 05, 2019, 12:15:57 AM
Is the Mrs Reid in the Police Station and photos in front of the Depository the same woman in the photo Wanda gave me? It doesn't look like it...The photo is captioned "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on February 05, 2019, 11:15:18 AM
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Brian,

Why trust Groden?

After all, he screwed up when he went to Lovelady's home and took a photo of him wearing a short-sleeved, vertically-striped shirt instead of the long-sleeved, bold plaid shirt he'd worn on 11/22/63.

LOL

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)

True that, Mr. Graves.  Moreover, Mr. Groden and Mr. Doyle should have a 'smell-off' contest in Dealy Plaza.  I wonder who would win?  It certainly wouldn't smell like the gunpowder in the air which was brought down by the wind from the 6th floor of the TSBD on that sad day.  And light a few firecrackers while you're there, and understand what an echo chamber that space was then, even today.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 05, 2019, 05:34:22 PM
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Is the Mrs Reid in the Police Station and photos in front of the Depository the same woman in the photo Wanda gave me? It doesn't look like it...The photo is captioned "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album...

Tommy?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 05, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
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Groden just told me that he didn't find out that she was dead until years after...If Iacoletti doesn't believe this well he can go (what Duncan's rules won't let me say)...

I don't believe a word of what you claim anybody said about anything.  You've been caught lying too many times.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 05, 2019, 11:08:36 PM
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Why trust Groden?

After all, he screwed up when he went to Lovelady's home and took a photo of him wearing a short-sleeved, vertically-striped shirt instead of the long-sleeved, bold plaid shirt he'd worn on 11/22/63.

That wasn't Groden, that was the FBI.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 05, 2019, 11:09:27 PM
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Is the Mrs Reid in the Police Station and photos in front of the Depository the same woman in the photo Wanda gave me? It doesn't look like it...The photo is captioned "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album...

Let's see the caption.  Why didn't you scan that too?
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 03:48:14 PM
I got an e-mail from Groden today thanking me...I sent him Moricet's juxtaposition of the woman in Sarah Stanton's photo album with the photo of "Jeraldean Reid's" 1930 yearbook picture...The two are a dead match and it is amazing how similar Jeraldean looked in 1967 to her image from 1930...

This created a problem because the woman being called "Mrs Reid" in Kamp's images of Dealey Plaza and the Police Station clearly look like a different woman...So if the 1967 Jeraldean Reid looked similar to the 1930 Jeraldean Reid certainly the 1963 Jeraldean Reid would too...

This is highly interesting because it is obvious that this gives serious traction to Groden's claim that there were two Mrs Reid's...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 05:54:10 PM
[no good deed goes unpunished by the narcissist]
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 06:06:01 PM
These women are a dead positive match...If Iacoletti would post the images of the woman being called "Mrs Reid" in the Depository photo and photo of her sitting next to Leavelle I think it might be a different woman...I'm pretty sure their faces are different...And this Jeraldean Reid has no glasses...

The logic ensues if the above "Jeraldean Reid" looked so similar to her 1930 yearbook photo in 1967 then why didn't she look similar in the 1963 assassination photos?

This backs Groden I'm afraid...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 06:20:05 PM
"Dead positive" is an overstatement, but I agree they look similar.  That doesn't back Groden's story one way or the other.  Showing somebody a single photo and asking is this person you saw is just as invalid as when the police did it with a single photo of Oswald.  If you actually really did talk to Groden at all, this was a badly designed experiment.

There's no evidence of another Mrs. Reid named Delores ever being at the TSBD.  And if Groden was waiting until Jeraldean died before telling her story, then why did he wait another 40 years after that?  Reid was already dead before the HSCA.

I don't know who "identified" this as being Mrs. Reid, or what the identification was based on:

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/alleged-reid.jpg)


P.S. Your supposed photogrammetric prowess might be more believable if I didn't have to post all of your photos for you...
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 06:32:46 PM
What the troll Iacoletti is really saying there is despite all the sick trolling and attacking he does of me and my posts he is telling the board not to take him or his protests seriously because he is begrudgingly taking his proper place on his knees in front of me and posting my research...Thanks, that is what I've been saying all along despite Iacoletti's perverted attacks on it...

This enlargement of what someone called "Mrs Reid" in all the references to assassination photography appears to me to be a different person than the woman Groden confirmed in Sarah Stanton's photo album...We have fairly safe confirmation that Sarah's photo that is labeled "Jeraldean Reid" in her album is the same person shown in the yearbook as "Jerladean Bray"...

Score for Iacoletti's annoying naysaying trolling: - 0  ...  Score for my research that Iacoletti now endorses despite his crazy attacks on it: - 1   ...

Groden didn't have the internet access we have or its access to myriad cross information...Delores could easily have been an alias and if this woman is visibly different it can do nothing but back Groden's claim that she was inside giving Oswald change in the 2nd floor offices during the shots...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 06:42:27 PM
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What the troll Iacoletti is really saying there is despite all the sick trolling and attacking he does of me and my posts he is telling the board not to take him or his protests seriously because he is begrudgingly taking his proper place on his knees in front of me and posting my research...Thanks, that is what I've been saying all along despite Iacoletti's perverted attacks on it...

"Your research".  LOL.  Did you find the yearbook photo?  No.  Did you find the 1967 photo?  No, it was (supposedly) given to you.  You claimed it was labeled "Jeraldean Reid", but you don't show this alleged label.  Did you even know Reid's maiden name?  I doubt it.  You don't know the evidence at all, which is why you're always embarrassing yourself.

I don't endorse anything you do, because you lie about and misrepresent everything.  If you ever do stumble on something that happens to be correct, it's purely accidental.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 07:50:00 PM
Thanks for pulling hard against the noose Mr Troll...And thanks for posting my evidence above that you now endorse after wasting everybody's time with your irritating noise and crazy naysaying...

The woman is obviously different and therefore that gives credence to Groden...

Iacoletti - Mr blinded by specks while missing the entire picture that is mocking him from behind...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 08:07:09 PM
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Thanks for pulling hard against the noose Mr Troll...And thanks for posting my evidence above that you now endorse after wasting everybody's time with your irritating noise and crazy naysaying...

It's not your evidence, narcissist.  Nice try though.

That's the thanks I get for posting photos that you are unable to figure out how to do.  That won't happen again.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 08:27:22 PM
Translation:   Not saying I'm wrong...

Thanks Mr Troll...I accept your appreciation for my educating you against your defiant ignorance...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 08:57:09 PM
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Translation:   Not saying I'm wrong...

Thanks Mr Troll...I accept your appreciation for my educating you against your defiant ignorance...

The delusion is strong is this one.  Is there nothing you won't lie about?

(http://iacoletti.org/jfk/dontfeed.gif)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 09:39:15 PM
There is a certain barnyard animal that likes wallowing in mud of their own creation more than anything...The on-topic here of the evidence Iacoletti endorsed but was too dishonest to admit is whether the woman labeled "Mrs Reid" in the official photo evidence is the same woman as "Jerladean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album?...

Please notice that the woman referred to as "Geraldine Reid" in the FBI report on Sanders sounds like she was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald but didn't see it when you read Sanders' statement...Groden told me yesterday on the phone that FBI used "Mrs Robert A Reid" for the Mrs Reid who was outside because the "Geraldine Reid" who was inside was a different person...

Iacoletti thrives on dragging the thread into the mud and idiotic noise...But he doesn't answer the main point that if the "Mrs Reid" sitting next to Leavelle in the official assassination image has a visibly different face than Stanton's "Jerladean Reid" that this stunning new evidence seriously backs-up Groden's claim...

 
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 09:57:40 PM
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There is a certain barnyard animal that likes wallowing in mud of their own creation more than anything...The on-topic here of the evidence Iacoletti endorsed but was too dishonest to admit is whether the woman labeled "Mrs Reid" in the official photo evidence is the same woman as "Jerladean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album?...

Yet another lie.  I didn't "endorse" anything.  You've given us no reason to believe there was a "Jerladean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album.  You can't even tell the truth about what Wanda and Rosa said in an interview that we can all hear.

Quote
Please notice that the woman referred to as "Geraldine Reid" in the FBI report on Sanders sounds like she was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald but didn't see it when you read Sanders' statement...Groden told me yesterday on the phone that FBI used "Mrs Robert A Reid" for the Mrs Reid who was outside because the "Geraldine Reid" who was inside was a different person...

For the hundredth time:  Jeraldean Reid WAS Mrs. Robert A Reid.

Quote
Iacoletti thrives on dragging the thread into the mud and idiotic noise...But he doesn't answer the main point that if the "Mrs Reid" sitting next to Leavelle in the official assassination image has a visibly different face than Stanton's "Jerladean Reid"

What "official assassination image" says that Mrs Reid was sitting next to Leavelle?  How does an image even get to be an "official assassination image".  Is there an application process?

Quote
that this stunning new evidence seriously backs-up Groden's claim...

What "stunning new evidence"?  Somebody falsely identified somebody in a photo (you do that all the time) and that somehow shows there were two people with the same name, and one of them was with Oswald during the assassination?  That's quite a magnificent leap.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 06, 2019, 10:10:06 PM
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For the hundredth time:  Jeraldean Reid WAS Mrs. Robert A Reid.

Because you are so interested in your knee-jerk trolling you're not following the argument...Read the FBI report on Sanders and she is quoted saying "Geraldine Reid' told of Oswald being confronted by Baker in the 2nd floor lunch room...The report says Geraldine Reid did not actually see this confrontation, but the wording makes it seem like she was in the 2nd floor office when it occurred and was still there when Oswald proceeded to walk through the offices right afterwards...This of course suggests she could also have possibly been there when Oswald came in for change during the shots and was the "Jeraldean Reid" Groden witnessed saying this...This would make her a different person than the "Mrs Robert A Reid" who was photographed outside...

Don't play dumb Iacoletti...My photo evidence is showing that the two women appear to be different...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Tim Nickerson on February 06, 2019, 11:21:23 PM
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There is a certain barnyard animal that likes wallowing in mud of their own creation more than anything...The on-topic here of the evidence Iacoletti endorsed but was too dishonest to admit is whether the woman labeled "Mrs Reid" in the official photo evidence is the same woman as "Jerladean Reid" in Sarah Stanton's photo album?...

Please notice that the woman referred to as "Geraldine Reid" in the FBI report on Sanders sounds like she was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald but didn't see it when you read Sanders' statement...Groden told me yesterday on the phone that FBI used "Mrs Robert A Reid" for the Mrs Reid who was outside because the "Geraldine Reid" who was inside was a different person...

Iacoletti thrives on dragging the thread into the mud and idiotic noise...But he doesn't answer the main point that if the "Mrs Reid" sitting next to Leavelle in the official assassination image has a visibly different face than Stanton's "Jerladean Reid" that this stunning new evidence seriously backs-up Groden's claim...

Mrs Robert A Reid and Geraldine Reid had the same telephone number.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483#relPageId=364&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95614#relPageId=71&tab=page
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 11:47:42 PM
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Don't play dumb Iacoletti...My photo evidence is showing that the two women appear to be different...

What photo evidence?  What two women?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 06, 2019, 11:49:48 PM
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Mrs Robert A Reid and Geraldine Reid had the same telephone number.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483#relPageId=364&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95614#relPageId=71&tab=page

Right, what are the odds?  They also had the same husband!

(https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2015/209/145566340_1438205122.jpg)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 12:54:24 AM
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Mrs Robert A Reid and Geraldine Reid had the same telephone number.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10483#relPageId=364&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95614#relPageId=71&tab=page

Because they were probably the same person...What FBI is doing here is merging the two Jeraldean Reid's in to the Mrs Robert Reid who was outside during the shooting...

If you're following this evidence Tim, we have a second Jeraldean Reid because the faces don't match...The Mrs Robert Reid you are citing in Ferrell is the woman who was outside during the shooting with the glasses...The recorders of the statements you cite from Ferrell are cleverly trying to merge the two by combining the statements about seeing Oswald come into the 2nd floor offices with a Coke and the telephone number with the two women in order to make them one...But the cat is out of the bag with this wild card Intel didn't expect in Sarah Stanton's photo album Jerladean Reid...

Take notice of "Geraldine Reid" saying Truly and Oswald were obviously lunching...This is damage control to cover-up the fact Groden's Jeraldean Reid witnessed Oswald at a time that exonerated him dead to rights...They are trying to scuttle Groden's Reid and her witnessing by gumming-up her testimony with Truly in the lunchroom eating with Oswald...

Groden told me his "Jeraldean Reid" told her story of Oswald getting change from her during the shots to FBI...The Ferrell references you show are their damage control just like they did with Carolyn Arnold and almost certainly Sarah Stanton to get around this exonerating witnessing...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 02:01:51 AM
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If you're following this evidence Tim, we have a second Jeraldean Reid because the faces don't match...

Nope.  There was only one Mrs. Reid.  Just like there was only one Oswald.

The rest of this is just a fantasy story on par with some of Walt's best fabrications.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on February 07, 2019, 05:23:10 AM
I'm copying and pasting, with my widdle android, a pertinent post from page 2 of that evil, evil website to this nice, nice one, so please be patient ...

Fascinating is the fact that in her 1964 WC testimony, Jeraldean Reid (AKA Mrs. Robert A. Reid) said she was standing near Ochus Campbell and Roy Truly some distance directly in front of the front steps during the assassination and that Campbell told her that the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area.

EDIT: I just read her 11/23/63 affidavit (see below). In it she says she was standing near Campbell but that someone else said the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area. This is different from what she testified later to the Warren Commission.

Jeraldean Reid appears in a few photographs and films:

24v5e9e.jpg

The four-image montage (viewable elsewhere on THIS forum) with red arrows pointing to my putative Jeraldean Reid which was created by someone I may know but who wasn't credited by whoever I lifted it from back in 2015.  LOL

The frame with the vertical red arrow is from the Dave Wiegman film. In the youtube video below, that frame is easiest to see in slow motion at 1:04. I figure this frame (with the vertical red arrow) was shot about four seconds before the first shot rang out.

For spatial-positions-of-the-witnesses reasons, please compare that frame with the frames viewable at 0.45 in the following version of the Wiegman film--

[2:48 version of DAVE WIEGMAN film viewable on youtube]

I believe the two suit-wearing men barely visible on the far right at 0:45 in the video (above the Chevy's right tail fin), just a few people away from where Jeraldean Reid was standing (she is hidden behind another woman at 0:45) could be Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell.

FWIW, she said that about two minutes after the assassination she encountered, shortly after she entered her large second-floor office area, a t-shirt wearing Oswald passing through in the general direction of the front elevator / front stairs with a full bottle of Coke.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/reid.htm

Her first name was not Jeraldine or Geraldine. It was Jeraldean. Her maiden name was Bray. She was born on August 24, 1912, so she was fifty-one years old on 11/22/63.

--Tommy  :sun

PS The photo of her sitting with Homicide Detective Jim Leavelle was taken on 11/23/63 according to Leavelle's April 7, 1964, WC testimony, ergo her different clothing.


Mr. BALL. You went to work at what time Saturday morning, November 23, 1963?

Mr. LEAVELLE. It would be around 8 o'clock, I imagine.

Mr. BALL. And did you take some statements that day?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Chances are I may have, I do not remember.

Mr. BALL. Here is----

Mr. LEAVELLE. It says took one affidavit from R. S. Truly, supervisor of Texas School Book and the other of employee, Mrs. R. A. Reid.

Mr. BALL. You are refreshing your memory from a report that you made, is that correct?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes.

Here is Reid's 11/23/63 affidavit from the Dallas Municipal Archives:

51. Affidavit In Any Fact typed, by Mrs. R. A. Reid. Statement as an employee of the Texas School Book Depository. States she saw Oswald leave the back office near the lunch room after the shooting, 11/23/63.

00001327 1 page 05 02 051 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/13/1327-001.gif

I would appreciate some constructive feedback / observations.

Thanks,

--Tommy  :sun

PS

Note that in her affidavit, Jeraldean Reid / Mrs. Robert A. Reid mentions standing near Campbell, and in her WC testimony she says she stood near both Campbell and Truly.

.......

[...]

On 7/28/2015 at 10:41 PM, Chris Davidson said:

Thomas,

Here's a static version for you.

Chris
.......

Yes, Chris. IMHO your red arrow on the right is pointing at Truly.

I think it's a little easier to recognize his facial features, hat, and short stature in the enhanced GIF I posted, especially when looking at the GIF before it starts running.

IEJmpY.gif

But now your red arrow on the right in the previous post lets everybody know the guy I'm talking about.

What's significant is that the tall guy next to him could be Ochus Campbell (is he wearing a white shirt and a tie, but no jacket? -- the potential O.V. Campbell whom new member Linda recently pointed out in the Martin and Hughes clips also appears to be wearing a white shirt but no jacket), and that a woman who resembles the woman Det. Jim Leavelle was talking with the next day in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau -- fifty-one year old Mrs. Robert A. Reid? -- can be seen about six feet away from them in the GIF.

Thanks!

--Tommy  :sun

Edited July 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves


-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 05:38:11 AM
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The rest of this is just a fantasy story on par with some of Walt's best fabrications.

He says while blatantly ducking a clearly spelled-out line of reasoning backed by evidence...Iacoletti can't answer the two different faces in public without  flagrant troll and run...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 07:03:07 AM
Thanks Tommy. You say on page 1 of that EF thread that you don?t know who identified the woman in the photo with Leavelle as Reid, and it appears that the entire basis for ever calling her Reid was that Reid once talked to Leavelle and she was in her 50s.

So much for Doyle?s ?two different faces?.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on February 07, 2019, 08:37:37 AM
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Thanks Tommy. You say on page 1 of that EF thread that you don?t know who identified the woman in the photo with Leavelle as Reid, and it appears that the entire basis for ever calling her Reid was that Reid once talked to Leavelle and she was in her 50s.

So much for Doyle?s ?two different faces?.8

Iacoletti,

The devil's in the multiplicity of details and the interconnections therein and thereof, but you, unfortunately, seem to love to cherrypick the "weakest" of said details and claim that I'm basing my whole case on a single one (e.g. "Calvary's" nose, or "Calvary's" hair) to your self-perceived advantage in our ongoing debates, as though this is some kind of game.

Leavelle said that he took the affadivits of only three people on Saturday, November 23rd: Roy Truly, Mrs. R. A. Reid, and taxi driver W. W. Scoggins.

We know that Mrs. Robert A. Reid (aka Jeraldean Reid) was 51 years old at the time.

The photo of Leavelle and the middle-aged looking woman was taken on Saturday, November 23rd at the Dallas Police Department, and it looks as though Leavelle's reading something to the woman, or reading it, himself (maybe even an affidavit she's just made; note that there are no other people around to distract them).

Jeraldean said she was watching the motorcade near the front steps of the TSBD, and that Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell were near her.

In their statements, Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell said they watched the motorcade together. In his Warren Commission testimony, Truly said that he and Campbell were standing "ten, or fifteen, or twenty feet from the front steps," and that "Mrs. Reid was standing there close."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm

In Wiegman we can see Roy Truly standing near the steps, as well as another taller man who may be Ochus Campbell quite near him. About ten feet to our left of these two men, we can see behind another woman the partial face of a woman who looks like the above-mentioned dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman.

Taking all of the above points together, I think it's reasonable to assume that the dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman partially hidden behind the other woman in Wiegman was Jeraldean Reid, and that the woman with whom Leavelle, reading some sort of document, was photographed sitting with at the Dallas Police Department on Saturday, November 23rd was that same woman -- the only woman he'd taken an affidavit from that day, Mrs. R. A. Reid (aka Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid).

.......

What do other JFK Assassination Forum members think?

Can we agree that the woman I've been talking about, above, is Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid?

Or would that require:

1) A notarized statement, and

2) A birth certificate, and

3) A DNA test or two?
.......

There are twelve pages in that thread at the EF, Iaconetti.

Have you gotten past the first one, yet?

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)




Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 02:53:14 PM
Yes, I read all 12 pages.  It reminded me of how brilliant Linda Zambanini is.

First of all, how do you know the film with the Leavelle frame was taken on Saturday?  I think it was actually taken on Sunday after Oswald was shot.  Second of all, how do you know Leavelle is taking a deposition or even talking to this woman?

It's one thing to make a reasonable guess 4 years ago that this woman could be Reid until better information (like the yearbook photo) is discovered, but to then run around for 4 years saying that Reid has been identified or to post photos with this woman captioned "Jeraldean Reid" is just irresponsible.  This case is rife with misidentifications of witnesses.  Now you get nutcases like Doyle postulating that there were two Mrs. Reids because both have "been identified" as Mrs. Reid.  A guess, no matter how well intentioned, is not an identification.

Which is why I was wanting to know how this myth of the glasses-wearing woman with Leavelle being Mrs. Reid got started -- to unravel truth from fiction.  To unravel guesses from evidence.  Isn't that why we're all here?
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 04:07:33 PM
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Taking all of the above points together, I think it's reasonable to assume that the dark-haired, glasses-wearing woman partially hidden behind the other woman in Wiegman was Jeraldean Reid, and that the woman with whom Leavelle, reading some sort of document, was photographed sitting with at the Dallas Police Department on Saturday, November 23rd was that same woman -- the only woman he'd taken an affidavit from that day, Mrs. R. A. Reid (aka Mrs. Robert A. Reid, aka Jeraldean Reid).

You're incredible Thomas because no matter how much I spell something out you manage to mangle it in your summations...The flaw in what you write above is that you fail to consider that the woman in the photo sent to me by Wanda Daniel from Sarah Stanton's photo album is labeled "Jeraldean Reid"...That woman should be the only woman referred to as "Jeraldean Reid"...Thank you Thomas for badly fumbling my whole case and giving comfort to Iacoletti...

Groden told me on the phone tuesday that FBI used "Mrs Robert Reid" for the woman outside in order to conceal "Jeraldean Reid" who was inside and was a second Mrs Reid...Groden appears to have some wrinkles in "Delores" and the woman being near 80 when he did the interview...He also confirmed that the woman in Sarah's photo was the same woman he interviewed...

The reason Groden still has traction is because it appears the "Mrs Robert Reid" woman in the photo with Leavelle is not the same "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo...Also, the statement by Pauline Sanders that speaks of talking to "Geraldine Reid" on the telephone suggests that this woman was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald in the lunch room...It also verbally suggests that Oswald was eating in the lunch room during the assassination...It is my opinion that FBI mirrored its knowledge that was gained from this Mrs Reid, who was Groden's Mrs Reid, and that knowledge bled into its linguistics in that report...That report shows heavy suggestion that this Mrs Reid knew Oswald was in the lunch room during the assassination and came and got change from this Mrs Reid during the shots...

The Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid" appears to have a different face from Sarah's "Jeraldean Reid"...

Both you two show an extreme lack of skill in not realizing where we are from this is finding out why we have two Mrs Reid's and why the second Groden one is labeled "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo album?

Iacoletti's problem is he bases his logic on statements like "nutcase Doyle" and "not credible evidence" and tries to drive down an evidence road paved with those words...But he does so foolishly while leaving the real credible evidence I just outlined unaddressed...That's why I'm the one leading this debate and he's the one trolling it...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 04:52:34 PM
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You're incredible Thomas because no matter how much I spell something out you manage to mangle it in your summations...The flaw in what you write above is that you fail to consider that the woman in the photo sent to me by Wanda Daniel from Sarah Stanton's photo album is labeled "Jeraldean Reid"...That woman should be the only woman referred to as "Jeraldean Reid"...Thank you Thomas for badly fumbling my whole case and giving comfort to Iacoletti...

Where the label, Doyle?

Quote
Groden told me on the phone tuesday that FBI used "Mrs Robert Reid" for the woman outside in order to conceal "Jeraldean Reid" who was inside and was a second Mrs Reid...

I doubt that you actually spoke to Groden, but he's wrong.  There was one Mrs. Reid -- Jeraldean.  No Delores.

Quote
The reason Groden still has traction is because it appears the "Mrs Robert Reid" woman in the photo with Leavelle is not the same "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo.

And as we just learned, the "identification" of the woman with Leavelle as Mrs. Reid never had any merit.

Quote
..Also, the statement by Pauline Sanders that speaks of talking to "Geraldine Reid" on the telephone suggests that this woman was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald in the lunch room...It also verbally suggests that Oswald was eating in the lunch room during the assassination...

This nonsense again.  Sanders account of what Reid told her is just mangled hearsay.  You want to prefer a secondhand mangled account, because that's what you do.

Quote
The Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid" appears to have a different face from Sarah's "Jeraldean Reid"...

That's because there was never any good reason to think that the "Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid" was Mrs Robert Reid.  Duh.

Quote
Iacoletti's problem is he bases his logic on statements like "nutcase Doyle" and "not credible evidence" and tries to drive down an evidence road paved with those words...But he does so foolishly while leaving the real credible evidence I just outlined unaddressed...That's why I'm the one leading this debate and he's the one trolling it...

You're "leading" this debate into la-la land, because again, it's what you do.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 05:36:13 PM
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Where the label, Doyle?

I doubt that you actually spoke to Groden, but he's wrong.  There was one Mrs. Reid -- Jeraldean.  No Delores.

And as we just learned, the "identification" of the woman with Leavelle as Mrs. Reid never had any merit.

This nonsense again.  Sanders account of what Reid told her is just mangled hearsay.  You want to prefer a secondhand mangled account, because that's what you do.

That's because there was never any good reason to think that the "Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid" was Mrs Robert Reid.  Duh.

You're "leading" this debate into la-la land, because again, it's what you do.

Here we go again with Iacoletti's trollish naysaying...I don't need to jump through every hoop and hurdle Iacoletti raises...I have the label and have proven myself enough that I don't need to answer to Iacoletti's trolling doubt...If he doesn't like that he can always go away...Iacoletti did the same thing with my speaking to Craig Calvery...He offered similar doubt...Yesterday I posted a screen-shot of Craig's e-mail to me confirming that he agreed that "Tall Woman" in Betzner-3 was his mother and specified the features, including her glasses, that matched...Iacoletti's response was to accuse me of forging the e-mail screen-shot...On other boards Iacoletti would rightfully be send to segregation for that...

Your answer to Delores ham-handedly runs roughshod across the evidence I posted...That disqualifies you Iacoletti...Let us know when you can answer what was written...

Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 06:06:06 PM
Iacoletti failed to answer the fact Thomas showed that Mrs Robert Reid was Leavelle's only female interview that day so it has to be her...That woman's face is different than Sarah Stanton's "Jeraldean Reid" and Iacoletti has failed to answer a basic argument of evidence...

Iacoletti also stupidly fails to answer that if the Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid is not her then where is the Sarah Stanton "Jeraldean Reid" outside in assassination photos?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 06:24:06 PM
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Here we go again with Iacoletti's trollish naysaying...I don't need to jump through every hoop and hurdle Iacoletti raises...I have the label and have proven myself enough that I don't need to answer to Iacoletti's trolling doubt...If he doesn't like that he can always go away...

This is why it's important to be honest in all your communications.   If you're wrong, admit it and correct it.  Don't just trot out the same lie the next day.  If you make a mistake, own up to it rather than digging in and posting walls of insults in response.  If there is a weakness in your argument, then own up to that, and try to make a better argument.  That's what intellectually honest people do.  You've been caught out lying or misrepresenting evidence and what people actually said so many times that you have no credibility whatsoever.  So no, I'm not going to just take your word for it.  If you had a history of honesty and integrity, I probably would.

Quote
Iacoletti did the same thing with my speaking to Craig Calvery...He offered similar doubt...Yesterday I posted a screen-shot of Craig's e-mail to me confirming that he agreed that "Tall Woman" in Betzner-3 was his mother and specified the features, including her glasses, that matched.

Another falsehood.  You've been saying for weeks that Chris Calvery identified his mother in Betzner.  Then when repeatedly challenged to show evidence for that, you produce an alleged email from Craig Calvery dated yesterday with the comparatively weaker statement:  "looks like mom from a height, profile, and glasses standpoint? (and you used the Betzner enlargement that I gave you without any acknowledgment), but what happened to the Chris Calvery claim you've been touting for weeks?  Did you panic when you realized that you've been lying about Chris for weeks and decided you better send an email to try to salvage your reputation after the fact?  Then you try to claim that Craig's "looks like" is a "confirmation" rather than just a guess.

Karen Westbrook (who was there) said that Gloria was standing next to her by the Stemmons sign.  You were not there.  Chris was not there.  Craig was not there.  Craig was born in 1970.  Chris was born in 1977.

Quote
..Iacoletti's response was to accuse me of forging the e-mail screen-shot...On other boards Iacoletti would rightfully be send to segregation for that...

This is what I'm talking about.  I didn't accuse you of forging anything.  Post a screen shot of this "accusation" or admit that it's just another lie.

Quote
Your answer to Delores ham-handedly runs roughshod across the evidence I posted...That disqualifies you Iacoletti...Let us know when you can answer what was written...

You didn't post any evidence.  You posted a a big giant conspiratorial speculation about there being two Mrs Reids when there is no actual evidence that there were two Mrs Reids.  My answer is that you're full of it. 
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 06:27:52 PM
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Iacoletti failed to answer the fact Thomas showed that Mrs Robert Reid was Leavelle's only female interview that day so it has to be her...

 BS:

You haven't shown any evidence for what day that image was taken, or that it depicts an interview.

Quote
Iacoletti also stupidly fails to answer that if the Leavelle Mrs Robert Reid is not her then where is the Sarah Stanton "Jeraldean Reid" outside in assassination photos?

That's the same ridiculous argument you try to make about Stanton:  "prove she is somewhere else or my wild-ass guess wins".

No.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
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BS:

You haven't shown any evidence for what day that image was taken, or that it depicts an interview.

That's the same ridiculous argument you try to make about Stanton:  "prove she is somewhere else or my wild-ass guess wins".

No.

This is just sloppy, desperate denial of the fact the woman is the same woman seen in front of the Depository...

You see Iacoletti is so used to his naysay trolling that he's literally unable to do anything else and doesn't realize he just badly crashed and burned in front of evidence he showed in public that he was unable to intelligently respond to...

Who's the ignorable name-caller and who is the master who just smoked you badly Trolletti?

Dumb challenge Iacoletti...If we find the camera man source we will confirm that was the 23rd and was Leavelle's interview of "Mrs Robert Reid"...You will ignore it and find some other specious naysaying point to cherry-pick...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 07:21:48 PM
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This is just sloppy, desperate denial of the fact the woman is the same woman seen in front of the Depository...

Lots of women were seen in front of the Depository.  That's just a colossally bad argument, even for you.

Quote
You see Iacoletti is so used to his naysay trolling that he's literally unable to do anything else and doesn't realize he just badly crashed and burned in front of evidence he showed in public that he was unable to intelligently respond to...

I think you are so delusional that you actually think that if you say something happened then it actually really happened.  You're a legend in your own mind.

Quote
Who's the ignorable name-caller and who is the master who just smoked you badly Trolletti?

Yeah, you sure "smoked" me with your killer "she was seen in front of the depository" argument.   :D :D :D

Quote
Dumb challenge Iacoletti...If we find the camera man source we will confirm that was the 23rd and was Leavelle's interview of "Mrs Robert Reid"...You will ignore it and find some other specious naysaying point to cherry-pick...

This is your whole approach in a nutshell.   Make a claim and then go out and try to find evidence to support it.  You're basically admitting that the whole "this was taken on Saturday, November 23rd" was just a big bluff.  This is why you can't be trusted.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on February 07, 2019, 07:38:43 PM
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You're incredible Thomas because no matter how much I spell something out you manage to mangle it in your summations...The flaw in what you write above is that you fail to consider that the woman in the photo sent to me by Wanda Daniel from Sarah Stanton's photo album is labeled "Jeraldean Reid"...That woman should be the only woman referred to as "Jeraldean Reid"...Thank you Thomas for badly fumbling my whole case and giving comfort to Iacoletti...

Groden told me on the phone tuesday that FBI used "Mrs Robert Reid" for the woman outside in order to conceal "Jeraldean Reid" who was inside and was a second Mrs Reid...Groden appears to have some wrinkles in "Delores" and the woman being near 80 when he did the interview...He also confirmed that the woman in Sarah's photo was the same woman he interviewed...

The reason Groden still has traction is because it appears the "Mrs Robert Reid" woman in the photo with Leavelle is not the same "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo...Also, the statement by Pauline Sanders that speaks of talking to "Geraldine Reid" on the telephone suggests that this woman was in the 2nd floor offices when Baker confronted Oswald in the lunch room...It also verbally suggests that Oswald was eating in the lunch room during the assassination...It is my opinion that FBI mirrored its knowledge that was gained from this Mrs Reid, who was Groden's Mrs Reid, and that knowledge bled into its linguistics in that report...That report shows heavy suggestion that this Mrs Reid knew Oswald was in the lunch room during the assassination and came and got change from this Mrs Reid during the shots...

The Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid" appears to have a different face from Sarah's "Jeraldean Reid"...

Both you two show an extreme lack of skill in not realizing where we are from this is finding out why we have two Mrs Reid's and why the second Groden one is labeled "Jeraldean Reid" in Sarah's photo album?

Iacoletti's problem is he bases his logic on statements like "nutcase Doyle" and "not credible evidence" and tries to drive down an evidence road paved with those words...But he does so foolishly while leaving the real credible evidence I just outlined unaddressed...That's why I'm the one leading this debate and he's the one trolling it...

Brian,

I don't give a flying xxxx about your xxxxxxx "case".

I'm only interested in trying to establish positive identifications of some witnesses "caught" in photographic images on 11/22/63, and determining whether or not they were where they said they were and/or doing what they said they were doing, and correlating their positions and actions with the positions and actions of other witnesses or possible "bad guy" actors.

EDIT: So far I've successfully located Roy Truly in Wiegman, Stella Mae Jacob, Gloria Holt, and Sharron Simmons in the Z-film (and in two Darnell clips), and Gloria Calvery in the Z-film and in Couch-Darnell.

As you know, I believe that Khrushchev and/or Castro was behind the assassination, so I don't give a flying F whether or not there was a Delores Reid there (who may or may not have witnessed a Harvey, Lee, or Harry Oswald holding a bottle of Cokie-Cola, Dr. Pepper, or Orange Crush near the second floor lunchroom during the shooting), whom the evil, evil, evil Deep State powers just HAD to get rid of and destroy all evidence of her employment at the TSBD so that Lee Harvey Oswald -- a guy who was, according to a certain cult, born in Hungary and learned that non-Indo European language first, then the mandatory Russian, and finally English so darn so well that he was able to speak it better than your average college graduate (e.g., by consistently applying the rule The Gerund Takes The Possessive) -- could very, very, very unjustly be "found" to be ... gasp ... guilty of assassinating that charasmatic, somewhat Socialistic, (but true) anti-Communist, JFK.

Gerund?  What's that, Mudd Wrassler Tommy?

Look it up.

LOL

PS  I've got a feeling that your boy Groden's memory is almost as bad as Karen Westbrook's.

HOLY XXXX !
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 07:42:08 PM
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Lots of women were seen in front of the Depository.  That's just a colossally bad argument, even for you.

Dumb argument again...The woman is the woman who is seen in front of the Depository...Leavelle only interviewed one woman...That woman was described in the case documents as being "Mrs Robert Reid"...They are obviously the same woman so that makes the woman seen with Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid"...
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 07:45:48 PM
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Brian,

I don't give a flying xxxx about your xxxxxxx "case".

I'm only interested in trying to establish positive identifications of some witnesses "caught" in photographic images on 11/22/63, and determining whether or not they were where they said they were and/or doing what they said they were doing, and correlating their positions and actions with the positions and actions of other witnesses or possible "bad guy" actors.

As you know, I believe that Khrushchev and/or Castro was behind the assassination, so I don't give a flying F whether or not there was a Delores Reid there (who may or may not have witnessed a Harvey, Lee, or Harry Oswald holding a bottle of Cokie-Cola, Dr. Pepper, or Orange Crush near the second floor lunchroom during the shooting), whom the evil, evil, evil Deep State powers that be had to get rid of and destroy all evidence of her employment at the TSBD so that Lee Harvey Oswald, a guy who was, according to a certain cult, born in Hungary and learned that non-Indo European language first, then the mandatory Russian, and finally English, and so darn so well that he was able to speak it better than your average college graduate (e.g., by consistently applying the rule The Gerund Takes The Possessive).

Gerund?  What's that, Mudd Wrassler Tommy?

Look it up.

LOL

As long as you can admit you are wrong Thomas for the evidence's sake lol...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 07:59:03 PM
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Dumb argument again...The woman is the woman who is seen in front of the Depository...Leavelle only interviewed one woman...That woman was described in the case documents as being "Mrs Robert Reid"...They are obviously the same woman so that makes the woman seen with Leavelle "Mrs Robert Reid"...

And adding "obviously" to an unsupported claim doesn't turn it into a fact.

Please provide evidence that the Leavelle frame was taken on Saturday, and that Leavelle is taking a affadavit from this woman.  In fact, you haven't even done anything to show that "Leavelle only interviewed one woman".  You have such little integrity that you'll make up anything to suit your arguments.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
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And adding "obviously" to an unsupported claim doesn't turn it into a fact.

Please provide evidence that the Leavelle frame was taken on Saturday, and that Leavelle is taking a affadavit from this woman.  In fact, you haven't even done anything to show that "Leavelle only interviewed one woman".  You have such little integrity that you'll make up anything to suit your arguments.

So you are saying Leavelle is courting this woman who is definitely the same woman who was in front of the Depository and that is poetry he's reading her on another totally unrelated day?

Thomas showed you that the record showed Leavelle only interviewed 3 people on Saturday...Truly, Mrs Reid, and W. W. Scoggins...

You're lying Iacoletti and I haven't "made-up" a single thing...You're in contempt of the facts...You're trying to seize the narrative with pretend questions isn't working and it is clear you are denying the obvious...

You hide behind pretend questions of evidence but you can't give a straight honest answer as to what exactly Leavelle is doing with the same woman who was photographed in front of the Depository during the assassination? (Duh)   
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 08:32:31 PM
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So you are saying Leavelle is courting this woman who is definitely the same woman who was in front of the Depository and that is poetry he's reading her on another totally unrelated day?

No, I'm not saying that.  Are you saying that courting, poetry, and taking an affidavit on Saturday are the only possibilities.  You don't even know it's Saturday?

Quote
Thomas showed you that the record showed Leavelle only interviewed 3 people on Saturday...Truly, Mrs Reid, and W. W. Scoggins...

No, actually Thomas didn't show that at all.  He just claimed it, and provided no source.  But it doesn't matter until you prove that's Saturday.

Quote
You're lying Iacoletti and I haven't "made-up" a single thing...You're in contempt of the facts...You're trying to seize the narrative with pretend questions isn't working and it is clear you are denying the obvious...

Of course you have.  You make things up constantly.

Doyle claimed that Buell Frazier said he saw Oswald head up Elm towards the bus:  LIE

Doyle claimed that Sarah Stanton said she saw Oswald with a Coke just outside the 2nd floor lunchroom:  LIE

Doyle claimed that Lovelady placed Stanton in the prayerman position:  LIE

Doyle claimed that Fraizer placed Stanton in the prayerman position:  LIE

Doyle claimed that Debra Conway designated him an A-team poster and cutting edge top researcher:   LIE

Doyle claimed that Rob claimed that Whaley invented the woman asking for a cab:  LIE

Quote
You hide behind pretend questions of evidence but you can't give a straight honest answer as to what exactly Leavelle is doing with the same woman who was photographed in front of the Depository during the assassination? (Duh)   

I have no idea what he's doing.  How do you know it's Saturday, how do you know he's taking an affidavit, and how do you know Leavelle only interviewed 3 people on Saturday?  These questions aren't going to go away.  Your made up claims don't just win by default.
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 08:39:40 PM
Here's why I think the Leavelle film was taken on Sunday. 

Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 08:43:05 PM
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I have no idea what he's doing.  How do you know it's Saturday, how do you know he's taking an affidavit, and how do you know Leavelle only interviewed 3 people on Saturday?  These questions aren't going to go away.  Your made up claims don't just win by default.

No, no, no, you can't get away with that...You're not answering the point...

We know the woman next to Leavelle is the woman who was photographed out in front of the Depository during the assassination...

You haven't answered the direct point of why is Leavelle talking to this woman? It is patently dishonest to try to say it isn't in the context of the assassination...We know Leavelle did his interview with Mrs Robert Reid being the only woman...You're a cheater and a liar Iacoletti because you know you could not find any other person for this to be if you tried...

You are not answering the point of why is Leavelle talking to the woman who was photographed outside the Depository if it isn't Mrs Reid?   

You are also trying to get away with the dishonest murder of ignoring the photo of her escorting fellow office workers Carolyn Arnold and Bonnie Richey in the other photo...

(Time mark on video please)
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 08:53:40 PM
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No, no, no, you can't get away with that...You're not answering the point...

We know the woman next to Leavelle is the woman who was photographed out in front of the Depository during the assassination...

No, we don't actually know that, but even if we did, that doesn't make her Mrs Reid.

Quote
You haven't answered the direct point of why is Leavelle talking to this woman?

It doesn't even look like he's talking to her.  They're not looking at each other.  I don't see his lips moving.  Or hers.

Quote
It is patently dishonest to try to say it isn't in the context of the assassination.

That still doesn't make it Mrs Reid.

Quote
..We know Leavelle did his interview with Mrs Robert Reid being the only woman..

No, we actually don't know that.

Quote
(Time mark on video please)

Click on it, it will take you there.  Isn't technology wonderful when you know how to use it?
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 08:57:55 PM
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No, we don't actually know that, but even if we did, that doesn't make her Mrs Reid.

 Yes we do...They are obviously the same woman with the same face, glasses, and pocketbook...

It makes her Mrs Reid because you can't come up with any other woman who was out front during the assassination who Leavelle interviewed...

You're trolling here Iacoletti...

(The video starts at 0:00)
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 09:04:08 PM
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Yes we do...They are obviously the same woman with the same face, glasses, and pocketbook...

Where have we heard this "same face" argument before?  Oh yeah, Gloria Calvery.  Any bozo can look at 2 photos and say "same face".  Cinque does it all the time with Lovelady in Altgens.

Quote
It makes he Mrs Reid because you can't come up with any other woman who was out front during the assassination who Leavelle interviewed...

You can't have possibly made it to age 58 and be this logic-impaired.  It must be Mrs. Reid because I don't know who it is?  You either have evidence for somebody's identity or you do not.  "I don't know" does not mean "I do know and it's Mrs. Reid".
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 07, 2019, 09:13:35 PM
Cherry-picking the weak spots in order to avoid the rest...

It is the same woman and you are lying Iacoletti...

Get back to us when you can answer the point about the photo with Bonnie Richey, and a pregnant Carolyn Arnold, with this same woman out front of the Depository showing Mrs Reid shoulder to shoulder with her fellow office workers...Her face in that photo is the same woman so therefore you haven't accounted for what office worker that is if it isn't Mrs Robert Reid?
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 07, 2019, 09:23:16 PM
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Get back to us when you can answer the point about the photo with Bonnie Richey, and a pregnant Carolyn Arnold, with this same woman out front of the Depository showing Mrs Reid shoulder to shoulder with her fellow office workers...Her face in that photo is the same woman so therefore you haven't accounted for what office worker that is if it isn't Mrs Robert Reid?

What photo?

How about you "get back to us" when you have even a single bit of evidence that either of these people (whether it's the same woman or not) is "Mrs. Reid".
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Duncan MacRae on February 07, 2019, 09:47:35 PM
Too many back and forth personal insults.
If it continues, the thread will be locked for a non negotiable 24 hour calming down period.
(https://i.gifer.com/2Use.gif)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 08, 2019, 05:13:27 AM
Is the "Mrs Robert Reid" with the glasses, in those post-assassination images in front of the Depository, on the sidewalk at a time when she had to be upstairs witnessing Oswald walk through the offices with a Coke?

What is the time of those images?

Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Thomas Graves on February 08, 2019, 06:00:40 AM
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Is the "Mrs Robert Reid" with the glasses, in those post-assassination images in front of the Depository, on the sidewalk at a time when she had to be upstairs witnessing Oswald walk through the offices with a Coke?

What is the time of those images?

Brian,

Not sure which "photos" you're talking about.

If you're talking about the frames in which several women, including Vicki Adams, can be seen waiting to cross the street, those women have already retreived their coats and things from the TSBD and are going home, dude.

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 08, 2019, 06:54:48 AM
It is highly unusual that "Mrs R.A. Reid" in her Commission report says nothing about going inside or seeing Oswald come with a soda from the lunch room into the 2nd floor office...She mentions none of this...But we then look at the CIA's 201 on Oswald where they tell of Pauline Sanders' account of "Gerladine" Reid calling Sanders and not only telling of the lunch room encounter but also telling of Oswald walking in to the 2nd floor offices with a Coke...Thomas - there is something seriously wrong with this because the same Mrs Reid who Karen Westbrook said in her 6th Floor Museum interview had told all the women office workers of seeing Oswald come in to the office with a Coke, and is said by Pauline Sanders to have called and told her this story, is one that says nothing at all about it in her Commission statement...Not only does Mrs R.A. Reid not say anything, but she is also not called by her first name "Jeraldean" like all the other women...There is no date of birth on her Commission statement like all the others...Groden is seriously on to something here...

In January 1964 Mrs R.A. Reid does tell Dallas Police in a statement that she went back inside after the shots and does mention Oswald walking through the 2nd floor office with a Coke...But if Mrs Reid volunteered this story to her office workers when detained in the 2nd floor office after the assassination, and volunteered it to Pauline Sanders by telephone, why then didn't she include it on her March 1964 Commission statement? This doesn't make sense and it seriously reinforces Groden's story...

The source for Pauline Sanders telling of "Gerladine" Reid calling her and telling her of both the lunch room encounter and Oswald walking through the office with a Coke is the Central Intelligence Agency's 201 File on Oswald...This is a serious red flag because the source for Geraldine Reid's lunch room encounter claim and Oswald with a Coke claim is CIA...This smacks of CIA getting control of the story..."Geraldine" is a classic CIA deliberate mis-spelling because they are trying to drag you off the trail of "Jerladean" Reid... Remember the source of this critical witnessing and all the information and names on it involved in the witnessing of Oswald with a Coke is CIA...DiEugenio is incredibly dull-minded on this and ignores all this glaring evidence in order to endorse Greg Barker's denial...   

Thomas:  Not sure about the shadows in those photos of "Mrs R.A. Reid" on the sidewalk after the assassination...They look close to the same position as the time of the shooting...
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 08, 2019, 07:16:28 AM
Sheriff Boone told Denis Moricet that he spoke to the lady at the desk on the 2nd floor and she told him "Oswald left the building"...

If you go to Belin interviewing Mrs R. A. Reid she says she did not know who Oswald was until she was informed of his name after the assassination...

This would make sense if "Jeraldean Reid" knew Oswald and spoke to Boone and Mrs R. A. Reid did not and testified before the Commission...

Quote
Mr. BELIN. Did you know his name on the day you saw him?
Mrs. REID. No; I did not. When I saw his picture I still didn't know his name until they told us who it was.
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 08, 2019, 03:10:37 PM
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What photo?

How about you "get back to us" when you have even a single bit of evidence that either of these people (whether it's the same woman or not) is "Mrs. Reid".

You're still not answering what was written...There is no doubt the woman sitting next to Leavelle is the same woman being called "Mrs R. A. Reid" outside the Depository standing with Carolyn Arnold and Bonnie Richey after the assassination...There's no doubt she has the same face, same pocketbook, pocketbook leather strap, and eyeglasses as the woman who is seen standing outside the Depository...

You still haven't answered the argument and saying "You have no evidence" over and over won't get you out of it...You have to answer why this woman, who is obviously an employee because she's shoulder to shoulder with Carolyn Arnold and Bonnie Richey, is talking to Leavelle? You can't be seriously interested in this discovery and ignoring who this woman is at the same time...The real failure in evidence is your failing to name any other employee who it could be if not Mrs Reid? A lot of people have studied these images and no one has come up with anyone else but Mrs Reid...

Answer the point...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Mark A. Oblazney on February 12, 2019, 08:03:26 AM
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Sorry I don't answer trolls...I just deal in intelligent evidence...

Bit of a double standard in here as far as rules...

I have a book for you:  'How to answer intelligent evidence'...You obviously need to read it...

Go ahead William...Lead by example and show us some of that credible debate where you actually make an attempt to answer what was written...

No, it is you who are required to present the burden of proof.  At least Ralph Cinque can post pictures.  You could learn a thing or two from the little fella, Albert.....
Title: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: Brian Doyle on February 12, 2019, 03:22:28 PM
Where we are with Groden and the image Wanda Daniel sent me of Jeraldean Reid from Sarah's photo album is that it appears to show a different woman than the woman labeled "Mrs Robert Reid" on the sidewalk...

We need to find out more about the sidewalk "Mrs Robert Reid" and try to get more images of her...
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 12, 2019, 11:33:22 PM
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But we then look at the CIA's 201 on Oswald where they tell of Pauline Sanders' account of "Gerladine" Reid calling Sanders and not only telling of the lunch room encounter but also telling of Oswald walking in to the 2nd floor offices with a Coke.

What the hell are you talking about?  There's no "CIA's 201 on Oswald where they tell of Pauline Sanders".
Title: Re: Max Holland Reviews "I Was a Teenage JFK Conspiracy Freak"
Post by: John Iacoletti on February 12, 2019, 11:36:36 PM
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You're still not answering what was written...There is no doubt the woman sitting next to Leavelle is the same woman being called "Mrs R. A. Reid" outside the Depository standing with Carolyn Arnold and Bonnie Richey after the assassination...There's no doubt she has the same face, same pocketbook, pocketbook leather strap, and eyeglasses as the woman who is seen standing outside the Depository...

 BS:

It's not even the same woman.  And neither woman has ever been identified as Mrs Reid, based on any actual evidence.

The film of the woman sitting next to Leavelle was taken on Sunday after Oswald was shot, and she may be Jack Ruby's sister.