Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?

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Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 06:59:38 AM »
As photos and film footage taken of the entrance area shortly after the assassination amply show---------------

E.g.:



----------------the position of the sun in the sky rules out any shadow cast by the west column as the explanation for the dark vertical strip down 'Lovelady' in all the Wiegman doorway frames.

And! There is in Wiegman no human body in 'Lovelady's' vicinity, and to his west, to cast a shadow, vertical or otherwise, down his side!

To suggest otherwise is pure ignorance---or disinformation  ::)

An all to familiar EdselDodge by Ford, as while discussing a WiegmanFilm frame, but illustrating two different scenes several minutes after the WiegmanFilm, different cameras, different distance, and different camera angles.
Why use any film other than the WiegmanFilm?
And you say, "To suggest otherwise is pure ignorance---or disinformation  ::)"?
??? You wish!

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 06:59:38 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 01:22:51 PM »
An all to familiar EdselDodge by Ford, as while discussing a WiegmanFilm frame, but illustrating two different scenes several minutes after the WiegmanFilm, different cameras, different distance, and different camera angles.
Why use any film other than the WiegmanFilm?
And you say, "To suggest otherwise is pure ignorance---or disinformation  ::)"?
??? You wish!


Poor Mr Trotter evidently believes that a different camera angle on the ground will cause the sun to move its position in the sky! Keep the gags coming, Mr Trotter  :D

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 01:22:51 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 04:22:46 PM »
Poor Mr Trotter evidently believes that a different camera angle on the ground will cause the sun to move its position in the sky! Keep the gags coming, Mr Trotter  :D
And surely you will ::).
Try to remember, over here, Sunlight origin and relative shadow/shadow angle is determined by objects and their placement, as well as their positioning at a given time determined by daily rotation as well as annual orbit
of Our Earth. >:(
But again, why do you use a MartinFilmClip and a HughesFilmClip, both of which were filmed from a different Camera, CameraAngle and CameraDistance, than the WiegmanFilmClip, the basis for your no vertical shadow claim, that was filmed, accordingly, an estimated 20 minutes prior to the MartinFilmClip and HughesFilmClip of the TSBD Elm St EntrancePortal? ???
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 04:35:50 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 04:22:46 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 04:36:10 PM »
And surely you will ::).
Try to remember, over here, Sunlight origin and relative shadow/shadow angle is determined by objects and their positioning at a given time determined by daily rotation as well as annual orbit
of Our Earth. >:(
But again, why do you use a MartinFilmClip and a HughesFilmClip, both of which were filmed from a different Camera, CameraAngle and CameraDistance, than the WiegmanFilmClip, the basis for your no vertical shadow claim, that was filmed, accordingly, an estimated 20 minutes prior to the MartinFilmClip and HughesFilmClip of the TSBD Elm St EntrancePortal? ???

Okey dokey, Mr Trotter, if you believe that's a shadow down Mr Lovelady's right side in Wiegman, how about you show us an image (photo or film) that supports your silly notion?

Thumb1:

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 04:36:10 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 05:21:44 PM »
And surely you will ::).
Try to remember, over here, Sunlight origin and relative shadow/shadow angle is determined by objects and their placement, as well as their positioning at a given time determined by daily rotation as well as annual orbit
of Our Earth. >:(
But again, why do you use a MartinFilmClip and a HughesFilmClip, both of which were filmed from a different Camera, CameraAngle and CameraDistance, than the WiegmanFilmClip, the basis for your no vertical shadow claim, that was filmed, accordingly, an estimated 20 minutes prior to the MartinFilmClip and HughesFilmClip of the TSBD Elm St EntrancePortal? ???

Okey dokey, Mr Trotter, if you believe that's a shadow down Mr Lovelady's right side in Wiegman, how about you show us an image (photo or film) that supports your silly notion?

Thumb1:
So you, AlanFord, make a claim about a WiegmanFilmFrameImage, and use different FilmClips, filmed about 20 minutes later from different Cameras, CameraAngles, and CameraDistances to illustrate your claim of "No Shadow On BillyNolanLovelady Image's Right Side? ::)
So you, AlanFord, make a claim void of reliable provable evidence, but then suggest I "show an image (photo or film) to support my silly notion"? ???
No Sir, it is your claim that requires justification! >:(
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 05:25:37 PM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 05:21:44 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 11:58:12 PM »
Mr Buell Wesley Frazier, WC testimony:

Mr. Shelley was standing, you know, back from the top step and over toward the side of the wall there. See, he was standing right over there, and then Billy was a couple of steps down from me over toward more the wall also.



------------Mr Lovelady several steps down, over by the wall
------------Mr Shelley up on the landing, also over by the wall
------------At some point between these Hughes frames and Wiegman, Mr Shelley goes inside
------------Mr Lovelady takes several steps back and ends up in the Prayer Man position.

Possible?

I would love to see a photo of Mr Joe Molina from 1963!

Could he be the figure in (what looks like) blue standing behind Lovelady and to his right-------in the 'Lovelady-in-Wiegman-and-Altgens' sweet spot?



We know this figure cannot be Mr Frazier himself, as Mr Frazier was wearing a light-colored shirt!

« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 01:13:35 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2018, 11:58:12 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 12:53:48 AM »
Problem!

While 'Mr Lovelady' in Wiegman looks surprisingly bald on top------------



------------we do see the signature bit of Lovelady hair-in-front in Altgens:



But!

When I look at an original wirephoto-----------



----------I cannot help being struck by the fact that it shows a man of comparable bald-on-topness to Wiegman's 'Lovelady'!

Alteration? Oh no, not necessarily at all, at least not deliberate alteration.

Could it be that the bit of hair coming down in front in later-Altgens is not a bit of hair at all, but an unfortunate common-or-garden splotchy anomaly that has crept into the image?



That's quite a tuft the cropped-haired Mr Lovelady of 11/22/63-------------



---------------seems to have in the later iteration of Altgens!

Prayer Man's hair, by contrast, would fit the bill capitally!


 
:o





« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 01:16:23 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 12:53:48 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2018, 11:05:17 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------1!-------------------------------------------------------

Mr Harry D. Holmes recalls Mr Oswald claiming an encounter with a police officer in the front lobby:

He said, ?I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions..."

--------------------------------------------------------2!!-------------------------------------------------------

Mr James Jarman recalls Mr Billy Lovelady's having witnessed this event:

Well, there was a Billy Lovelady standing out there, he was on the steps, see... And, Oswald was coming out the door and he said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building. Billy Lovelady said that Mr. Truly told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs.

If Mr Lovelady, still out on the steps, saw this encounter on the far side of the glass doors, then he will have misinterpreted the officer's reason for addressing Mr Oswald as having been a hostile one.

--------------------------------------------------------3!!!-------------------------------------------------------

The below, from The Washington Post on 11/23/63, is just one of multiple press reports conveying the official DPD line on an encounter between Mr Oswald and a police officer at the front entrance:



Sorry, friends, but it stretches all credulity to suggest that these mutual corroborations are coincidental.

The Baker-Oswald encounter happened in the front lobby, not in the second-floor lunchroom!



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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2018, 11:05:17 PM »

Offline Larry Trotter

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 12:00:25 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------1!-------------------------------------------------------

Mr Harry D. Holmes recalls Mr Oswald claiming an encounter with a police officer in the front lobby:

He said, ?I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door, and started to ask me some questions..."

--------------------------------------------------------2!!-------------------------------------------------------

Mr James Jarman recalls Mr Billy Lovelady's having witnessed this event:

Well, there was a Billy Lovelady standing out there, he was on the steps, see... And, Oswald was coming out the door and he said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building. Billy Lovelady said that Mr. Truly told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs.

If Mr Lovelady, still out on the steps, saw this encounter on the far side of the glass doors, then he will have misinterpreted the officer's reason for addressing Mr Oswald as having been a hostile one.

--------------------------------------------------------3!!!-------------------------------------------------------

The below, from The Washington Post on 11/23/63, is just one of multiple press reports conveying the official DPD line on an encounter between Mr Oswald and a police officer at the front entrance:



Sorry, friends, but it stretches all credulity to suggest that these mutual corroborations are coincidental.

The Baker-Oswald encounter happened in the front lobby, not in the second-floor lunchroom!

  As I am having a difficulty trying to reconcile the posted comments with the statements of record by the persons being referenced, perhaps pertinent statements can be found available among said testimony.

 Testimony of HarryHolmes:
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm
 
 Testimony of JamesJarman:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/m_j_russ/jarman.htm

 Testimony of BillyLovelady:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 12:06:39 AM by Larry Trotter »

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2018, 12:00:25 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Prayer Man - An Alternative Solution?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2018, 12:43:20 AM »
Warren Commission Exhibit No. 203, as published by the WC:



No splotch!

------------------------------------------

Photo published in New York Herald Tribune, May 1964:



Splotch!





« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 12:55:51 AM by Alan Ford »

 

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