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Author Topic: How Could LHO Walk One Mile After Leaving His Room & Shoot A Cop In 13 Minutes?  (Read 14434 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Martin,

My point is that the CT crowd use the "impossible walking time constraint" argument to say that Oswald cannot be at 10th and Patton to shoot Officer Tippit.

When they invoke the "Butch Burroughs saw LHO at the Texas Theater before 1:15 PM claim" ... they ignore the similar "impossible walking time constraint" factor.

Is it cherry picking or never considering the plausibility/implausibility of a theory based solely on a single witness testimony that conflicts with multiple witnesses testimony... that is the question?

Additionally: Blinded by an irrational need to portray Oswald as innocent of any wrongdoing?

The alternative options to walking: Jogging, sprinting, given a ride part of the way by a citizen (innocent) are never considered.

My point is that the CT crowd use the "impossible walking time constraint" argument to say that Oswald cannot be at 10th and Patton to shoot Officer Tippit.

When they invoke the "Butch Burroughs saw LHO at the Texas Theater before 1:15 PM claim" ... they ignore the similar "impossible walking time constraint" factor.


Yes, I understood that but IMO you can not compare the two and here's why;

Tippit was shot at a particular time which clearly puts a time restraint on that incident where Burroughs simply could have been wrong in his estimate. Don't forget that if you want to argue Oswald killed Tippit you have him entering the Texas Theater after 1:40 PM. With that in mind, it doesn't really matter if Burroughs said 1:15, 1:20 or even 1:25! As long as Burroughs (who said he saw him prior to the movie starting) sees him prior to, let's say 1:30 pm, there simply is no way that Oswald could have been at 10th/Patton to shoot Tippit and still get to the Texas Theater on time.

Is it cherry picking or never considering the plausibility/implausibility of a theory based solely on a single witness testimony that conflicts with multiple witnesses testimony... that is the question?

No, it's actually comparing apples and oranges. Oswald could easily have walked the mile from North Beckley and arrived at the Texas Theater prior to the movie starting, but he could not have done so when you figure in a detour to 10th/Patton.

Additionally: Blinded by an irrational need to portray Oswald as innocent of any wrongdoing?

Doesn't apply to me. I don't care if Oswald was guilty or not, I just want to find out the truth. Having said that, I do not think it is possible for Oswald to be just a random innocent bystander in all of this. For him to be the patsy he claimed he was he would have had to involved in something at some level.

The alternative options to walking: Jogging, sprinting, given a ride part of the way by a citizen (innocent) are never considered.

Is there any evidence for any of those options?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 11:36:55 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Most of the evidence points to Tippit being shot between 1:06 and 1:10.

The only thing that does not compute with those times is the (easily manipulated) DPD radio recording (made on a voice activated machine and thus unreliable for actual times) and the various transcripts of those recordings. And then of course there is the questionable claim that a very elusive time stamp card is supposed to show that the ambulance from a funeral home on Jefferson was called at 1:18. However, that notorious time stamp card is not part of the evidence and in over 50 years has never been produced.

I've been to the rooming house and walked the distance to 10th/Patton on all possible routes and there is no way that Oswald could have gotten there before 1:10.

I drove a car after dropping a young man similar to Lee Oswald's size at the rooming house and timed his arrival at Tenth and Patton ( not going beyond and then reversing his course)----- Time 12 minutes 20 seconds.

Who has researched the Music / Record shop aspect?.....    I'd like to know about Tippit's mad dash into that shop?

Offline Bill Chapman

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1) What actually is Chapman 'right' about? [I seldom have seen him right about anything] 2) Where was it ever explained that the time of  Tippit's death is erroneously posted at 1:00 PM [even if approximately] and then changed to 1:15 which still make it an impossibility for Oswald to have been the gunman? 3) This place is what? 4) the rest of that odious rant makes me wonder ..why read something like all of this if it is so detestable? Does someone have a gun to your head that you can't find something else to your liking? Who needs a life if someone becomes irked and emotionally responds to a controversial event?
  I believe I had returned a quite placid response to your post in another thread and now this ::)

Did you even read the post Denis is referring to? Denis is agreeing with me that if the times were changed for some sinister reason, they would have used white-out to disguise that.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 01:07:24 AM by Bill Chapman »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Did you even read the post Denis is referring to? Denis is agreeing with me that if the times were changed for some sinister reason, they would have used white-out to disguise that.

If they expected that those records would ever end up in the public domain, perhaps?. otherwise, who cares?

Why don't you try to give a valid and believable reason for changing those times in the first place?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 01:13:54 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Ross Lidell

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My point is that the CT crowd use the "impossible walking time constraint" argument to say that Oswald cannot be at 10th and Patton to shoot Officer Tippit.

When they invoke the "Butch Burroughs saw LHO at the Texas Theater before 1:15 PM claim" ... they ignore the similar "impossible walking time constraint" factor.


Yes, I understood that but IMO you can not compare the two and here's why;

Tippit was shot at a particular time which clearly puts a time restraint on that incident where Burroughs simply could have been wrong in his estimate. Don't forget that if you want to argue Oswald killed Tippit you have him entering the Texas Theater after 1:40 PM. With that in mind, it doesn't really matter if Burroughs said 1:15, 1:20 or even 1:25! As long as Burroughs (who said he saw him prior to the movie starting) sees him prior to, let's say 1:30 pm, there simply is no way that Oswald could have been at 10th/Patton to shoot Tippit and still get to the Texas Theater on time.

Is it cherry picking or never considering the plausibility/implausibility of a theory based solely on a single witness testimony that conflicts with multiple witnesses testimony... that is the question?

No, it's actually comparing apples and oranges. Oswald could easily have walked the mile from North Beckley and arrived at the Texas Theater prior to the movie starting, but he could not have done so when you figure in a detour to 10th/Patton.

Additionally: Blinded by an irrational need to portray Oswald as innocent of any wrongdoing?

Doesn't apply to me. I don't care if Oswald was guilty or not, I just want to find out the truth. Having said that, I do not think it is possible for Oswald to be just a random innocent bystander in all of this. For him to be the patsy he claimed he was he would have had to involved in something at some level.

The alternative options to walking: Jogging, sprinting, given a ride part of the way by a citizen (innocent) are never considered.

Is there any evidence for any of those options?



Is it cherry picking or never considering the plausibility/implausibility of a theory based solely on a single witness testimony that conflicts with multiple witnesses testimony... that is the question?

No, it's actually comparing apples and oranges. Oswald could easily have walked the mile from North Beckley and arrived at the Texas Theater prior to the movie starting, but he could not have done so when you figure in a detour to 10th/Patton.

You have missed the point made by of the CTs who push the Burrough's theory. The Conspiracy Theorists claim that Oswald went directly to the Texas Theater from the Boarding House at 1026 North Beckley hence providing him with an alibi for the Tippit shooting. Look at the map: the distance is similar to the various possible routes from 1026 North Beckley to Tenth and Patton. The CTs fail to see the implausibility in their theorizing.

Additionally: Blinded by an irrational need to portray Oswald as innocent of any wrongdoing?


Doesn't apply to me. I don't care if Oswald was guilty or not, I just want to find out the truth. Having said that, I do not think it is possible for Oswald to be just a random innocent bystander in all of this. For him to be the patsy he claimed he was he would have had to involved in something at some level.


Agreed.... largely. It's a subject for a separate debate.

The alternative options to walking: Jogging, sprinting, given a ride part of the way by a citizen (innocent) are never considered.

Is there any evidence for any of those options?

No. But surely Marty, you're not a believer in the unrealistic idea that each and every step taken by an alleged perpetrator must be witnessed by someone? Oswald getting a lift (for part of the journey) cannot be eliminated completely. It is a possibility that must be considered: Analyzing the possibility/probability of Oswald arriving at 10th and Patton to fit a time frame which is based on approximations of time-stamps. After all, Oswald was NOT continually observed after he left 1026 North Beckley to his arrest at the Texas Theater.


« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 01:59:59 AM by Ross Lidell »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Is it cherry picking or never considering the plausibility/implausibility of a theory based solely on a single witness testimony that conflicts with multiple witnesses testimony... that is the question?

No, it's actually comparing apples and oranges. Oswald could easily have walked the mile from North Beckley and arrived at the Texas Theater prior to the movie starting, but he could not have done so when you figure in a detour to 10th/Patton.

You have missed the point made by of the CTs who push the Burrough's theory. The Conspiracy Theorists claim that Oswald went directly to the Texas Theater from the Boarding House at 1026 North Beckley hence providing him with an alibi for the Tippit shooting. Look at the map: the distance is similar to the various possible routes from 1026 North Beckley to Tenth and Patton. The CTs fail to see the implausibility in their theorizing.


No, I didn't miss that point at all. I have looked at the map and have been there myself and you are right in as much that the distance from North Beckley to both locations is roughly the same. But the point I was making is that Oswald could have easily made it to the Texas Theater, before the movie began, if he had gone directly from the rooming house, but he wouldn't have been able to do so if he first made a detour to 10th/Patton. Burrough's estimate is IMO not a firm one. He could have been wrong by 15 minutes or so, but as long as he saw Oswald at any time before the movie began it means that Oswald could not have been at 10th/Patton when Tippit was killed.


Quote
Additionally: Blinded by an irrational need to portray Oswald as innocent of any wrongdoing?

Doesn't apply to me. I don't care if Oswald was guilty or not, I just want to find out the truth. Having said that, I do not think it is possible for Oswald to be just a random innocent bystander in all of this. For him to be the patsy he claimed he was he would have had to involved in something at some level.


Agreed.... largely. It's a subject for a separate debate.


Fair enough

Quote
The alternative options to walking: Jogging, sprinting, given a ride part of the way by a citizen (innocent) are never considered.

Is there any evidence for any of those options?

No. But surely Marty, you're not a believer in the unrealistic idea that each and every step taken by an alleged perpetrator must be witnessed by someone? Oswald getting a lift (for part of the journey) cannot be eliminated completely. It is a possibility that must be considered: Analyzing the possibility/probability of Oswald arriving at 10th and Patton to fit a time frame which is based on approximations of time-stamps. After all, Oswald was NOT continually observed after he left 1026 North Beckley to his arrest at the Texas Theater.

I am indeed not a believer in unrealistic ideas, but I am also not a believer in making assumptions to connect dots without there being a shred of evidence for it. Oswald getting a lift works both ways. He could also have been driven to the Texas Theater and arrive there when Burroughs said he saw him, so I don't see how making that argument would advance your case over that of the CTs who push the Burrough's theory.

Online Jerry Freeman

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If they expected that those records would ever end up in the public domain, perhaps?. otherwise, who cares?
The documents I refer to were not [obviously] published in the Warren Report.

Online Jerry Freeman

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Same "not enough time" problem.
     I believe I know you mean there now. Something about a report that Oswald was at the TT at the same time as when the policeman was shot. I checked the distance also. From the rooming house to the TT is 1.1 miles. A 20 minute walk [if that walk took place] There is also the report from the housekeeper that a police car stopped or slowed considerably and honked right in front of the rooming house [while Oswald was reportedly changing his clothes] No record of this mysterious squad car was ever produced. No record of a pedestrian matching Oswald's description was ever found sauntering in either direction at that time.

Offline John Iacoletti

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It?s only about a half mile from the 500 block of North Beckley to the Texas Theater.

Online Jerry Freeman

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In his book 'With Malice'.....Dale Myers gives the time of Tippit?s murder as 1:14:30 PM.
He sure narrowed it down there.

 

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