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Author Topic: In 54 years has it ever been proven that CE399 is the bullet found at Parkland?  (Read 4830 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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John Mytton has been making a big deal about the lack of proof for evidence having been manufactured or planted.

This obviously also includes the bullet now in evidence as CE399, which according to John Mytton (and others) was found by Tomlinson at Parkland Hospital, but when I asked John to first show that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is in fact the same bullet that was found by Tomlinson, he became extremely evasive. I find this somewhat strange because before you can discuss the possibility of evidence being manufactured or planted, you need to establish if an item is actually evidence at all.

At the moment I am having serious doubts, for a number of reasons, that the bullet now in evidence CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital, but if anybody can show, with anything beyond mere assumption, it was, I'll be more than happy to be convinced otherwise….

Please post your evidence to show the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the same bullet Tomlinson found, so it can be discussed….
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 03:43:38 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Online Jon Banks

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Where are the SBT experts on this?

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Maybe this man's argument is what you are looking for and why CE399 is not considered legitimate evidence. Basically chain of command of evidence was not followed!
https://hybridrogue1.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/forensics-ballistics-jfk/

"CHAINS OF CUSTODY"

“In this article I address the chain of custody for the so-called “magic bullet,” otherwise known as Commission Exhibit 399 (or CE399). According to the Warren Commission, this bullet wounded both President Kennedy and Governor John Connally.
In fact, the chain of custody for this central piece of evidence is non-existent. The true and amazing story about the near-pristine “magic bullet” found at Parkland Hospital shortly after JFK’s assassination has been carefully pieced together by analysts such as Sylvia Meagher in the ’60s and John Hunt in the past few years.
Although Secret Service agent Richard Johnsen received the bullet in Parkland Hospital by about 1:30 p.m., an hour after the assassination, Johnsen’s initials are nowhere on the magic bullet, despite regulations mandating Secret Service agents to initial forensic evidence.
Johnsen handed the bullet to the Secret Service Chief James Rowley at Andrews Air Force Base at about 7:30 p.m., who didn’t initial it either. Neither Johnsen nor Rowley could identify the bullet when shown it later." ......

Interesting discussion ensued about the hulls and then back to the CE399:

"Considering the time zones, it was between 90 minutes and 2 hours after the arrival of those fragments at the FBI labs, that Tomlinson was awakened by someone from the FBI, demanding that he “keep his mouth shut” about the bullet he found at Parkland hospital. This is from the recorded 1967 interview of Tomlinson by Ray Marcus. The interview is also documented in the HSCA records.

Tomlinson: On Friday morning about 12:30 to 1 o’clock – uh, excuse me, that’s Saturday morning – after the assassination, the FBI woke me up on the phone and told me to to keep my mouth shut.
Marcus: About the circumstances of your finding the bullet?
Tomlinson: That is (one short word, unintelligible) what I found…
Marcus: I understand exactly what you mean, when they call you, it’s pretty authoritative. But the thing is this, did they say – was there any particular thing about what they said or they just didn’t want you to talk about it period?
Tomlinson: Just don’t talk about it period.
[…]
In contrast to all of these very solid corroborations, we have 100% denial by the four men who examined the bullet that Tomlinson found, that it was CE399. Unlike many other issues related to the case, this one is not a tough call. It seems that J. Edgar Hoover agreed, because in recordings of telephone conversations between him and LBJ, he suggested that Connally was wounded because he came between the President and an assassin, and that if Connally had not come between them, JFK would have taken his bullet."

....(added as argument continues and comes back)

"Within an hour after the assassination, Johnsen was given the bullet by Parkland hospital security director O.P. Wright, after orderly Darrell Tomlinson found it by a stretcher. Like Johnsen and Rowley, neither Wright nor Tomlinson could identify the bullet.
_______________________________________________________________

The first 4 links in the chain of custody of the bullet found a Parkland are unable to identify it as CE399.
They are:

1. Orderly Darrell Tomlinson >>
2. Parkland hospital security director O.P. Wright >>
3. SS Agent Richard Johnsen >>
4. Agent Rowley (Secret Service Chief).

A break in the chain of custody at this proximate point proves that the bullet of record, CE399 is NOT the bullet found at parkland, and therefor CE399 is a planted bullet by the highest authorities themselves."

Footnote:  Consider that SS Agent Dick Johnsen was the one assigned by Clint Hill to accompany JFK's body on the airplane.  It seemed this was necessary to make sure no body switching conspiracy could ever have deemed to have happened! (Tippit was a look alike some have conjectured).  Then, we also learn that this same Dick Johnsen is the one who also carries the magic bullet CE399 during its path to the crime lab.  It seems also that Clint Hill (Mrs. Kennedy's SS body guard) takes control of the whole crime scene.  Was not Emory Roberts the man in charge?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 05:42:58 AM by Allan Fritzke »

Offline Ray Mitcham

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Maybe this man's argument is what you are looking for and why CE399 is not considered legitimate evidence. Basically chain of command of evidence was not followed!
https://hybridrogue1.wordpress.com/2016/03/28/forensics-ballistics-jfk/

"CHAINS OF CUSTODY"

“In this article I address the chain of custody for the so-called “magic bullet,” otherwise known as Commission Exhibit 399 (or CE399). According to the Warren Commission, this bullet wounded both President Kennedy and Governor John Connally.
In fact, the chain of custody for this central piece of evidence is non-existent. The true and amazing story about the near-pristine “magic bullet” found at Parkland Hospital shortly after JFK’s assassination has been carefully pieced together by analysts such as Sylvia Meagher in the ’60s and John Hunt in the past few years.
Although Secret Service agent Richard Johnsen received the bullet in Parkland Hospital by about 1:30 p.m., an hour after the assassination, Johnsen’s initials are nowhere on the magic bullet, despite regulations mandating Secret Service agents to initial forensic evidence.
Johnsen handed the bullet to the Secret Service Chief James Rowley at Andrews Air Force Base at about 7:30 p.m., who didn’t initial it either. Neither Johnsen nor Rowley could identify the bullet when shown it later." ......

Interesting discussion ensued about the hulls and then back to the CE399:

"Considering the time zones, it was between 90 minutes and 2 hours after the arrival of those fragments at the FBI labs, that Tomlinson was awakened by someone from the FBI, demanding that he “keep his mouth shut” about the bullet he found at Parkland hospital. This is from the recorded 1967 interview of Tomlinson by Ray Marcus. The interview is also documented in the HSCA records.

Tomlinson: On Friday morning about 12:30 to 1 o’clock – uh, excuse me, that’s Saturday morning – after the assassination, the FBI woke me up on the phone and told me to to keep my mouth shut.
Marcus: About the circumstances of your finding the bullet?
Tomlinson: That is (one short word, unintelligible) what I found…
Marcus: I understand exactly what you mean, when they call you, it’s pretty authoritative. But the thing is this, did they say – was there any particular thing about what they said or they just didn’t want you to talk about it period?
Tomlinson: Just don’t talk about it period.
[…]
In contrast to all of these very solid corroborations, we have 100% denial by the four men who examined the bullet that Tomlinson found, that it was CE399. Unlike many other issues related to the case, this one is not a tough call. It seems that J. Edgar Hoover agreed, because in recordings of telephone conversations between him and LBJ, he suggested that Connally was wounded because he came between the President and an assassin, and that if Connally had not come between them, JFK would have taken his bullet."

....(added as argument continues and comes back)

"Within an hour after the assassination, Johnsen was given the bullet by Parkland hospital security director O.P. Wright, after orderly Darrell Tomlinson found it by a stretcher. Like Johnsen and Rowley, neither Wright nor Tomlinson could identify the bullet.
_______________________________________________________________

The first 4 links in the chain of custody of the bullet found a Parkland are unable to identify it as CE399.
They are:

1. Orderly Darrell Tomlinson >>
2. Parkland hospital security director O.P. Wright >>
3. SS Agent Richard Johnsen >>
4. Agent Rowley (Secret Service Chief).

A break in the chain of custody at this proximate point proves that the bullet of record, CE399 is NOT the bullet found at parkland, and therefor CE399 is a planted bullet by the highest authorities themselves."

Footnote:  Consider that SS Agent Dick Johnsen was the one assigned by Clint Hill to accompany JFK's body on the airplane.  It seemed this was necessary to make sure no body switching conspiracy could ever have deemed to have happened! (Tippit was a look alike some have conjectured).  Then, we also learn that this same Dick Johnsen is the one who also carries the magic bullet CE399 during its path to the crime lab.  It seems also that Clint Hill (Mrs. Kennedy's SS body guard) takes control of the whole crime scene.  Was not Emory Roberts the man in charge?
Thumb1:

Offline John Iacoletti

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Response from the "Oswald did it" crowd:


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Offline Jerry Freeman

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I don't doubt that CE399 is the bullet that was found at Parkland....but how it got there cannot be proven.
I don't doubt that it was fired from C2766....but when and where cannot be proven.

Offline Allan Fritzke

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I don't doubt that CE399 is the bullet that was found at Parkland....but how it got there cannot be proven.
I don't doubt that it was fired from C2766....but when and where cannot be proven.
How would you deduce that conclusion (out of thin air?) when no one wants to vouch for it and say that it is the same one that they had their hands on? Everyone is washing their hands of it and has disassociated themselves with it.   A better and more appropriate question to ask the authorities  who broke with procedure:  "Did you sign or initial any such bullet as evidence?  Were there witnesses? Why not?"    Answer this question and you KNOW that there was such a bullet other than the one shown at CE399!  The procedure was not followed and they knew better about the evidence chain procedures if and when it was obtained - all law enforcement officers upholding the law are very aware of it - even in the 60s!   You just can't place something in as evidence without paperwork!
You don't just file something in the evidence bin.   There must be a system that is followed - otherwise you don't have a justice system and it becomes a "kangaroo" court where anyone can add and take away items from the "evidence folder" at will!  Absolutely no one will vouch for CE399 - therefore not evidence at all of anything coming from Parkland.   Even with the particles from the "CE 399 tumbling bullet", what chain of command did they go through?  Were they initialed by the authorities dealing with hospital staff after removing from JC?  Does someone have a signature on that evidence bag or paper trail and admit to introducing it?  You need a witness of the transaction and someone vouching for the hand-off.  Otherwise someone could scrape a little bit off the end of the bullet and claim this is what they found at the lab!

« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 07:47:14 PM by Allan Fritzke »

Online Martin Weidmann

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It's as much a truly sad state of affairs as highly revealing about their lack of confidence in their own arguments that, so far, no LN has had the guts to even try and show that the bullet now known as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital!

How can you have a SBT when you can't even demonstrate the authenticity of the most important bullet in that tale?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:03:39 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Ross Lidell

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I don't doubt that CE399 is the bullet that was found at Parkland....but how it got there cannot be proven.
I don't doubt that it was fired from C2766....but when and where cannot be proven.

If you don't doubt that CE399 was fired from C2766: How was Oswald's Carcano rifle obtained from the Paine's garage and put back there?

Easy stuff like: Who, When etc?

Offline Ross Lidell

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Response from the "Oswald did it" crowd:

That's a devil of a challenge, John.  >:(

Good to see you are still using my "ODIA" acronym. Oswald did it... alone.

I know it's hard for you to accept this fact: The ballistic tests that link CE399 to C2766 "to the exclusion of all other weapons" is sufficient to confirm that the "almost whole" missile is one of the three shots fired from the SE corner of the TSBD at President Kennedy.

To successfully challenge that fact requires "supporting evidence". Some sort of plausible narrative with names, places and times will do.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 06:13:33 AM by Ross Lidell »

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