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Author Topic: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?  (Read 2491 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 08:32:18 PM »
Humes (the wound mover) is the one who said the back wound was a shallow wound . The only wound that transversed the body of JFK was the bullet that hit him in the right temple and blew out the back of his head .

Tell us how to get a finger into the small wound channel produced by FMJ ammo

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 08:32:18 PM »


Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2018, 08:53:29 PM »
Those who refuse to explain where the bullet went after it hit President Kennedy's upper-back and came out his neck beneath the adam's apple are "implying" the missile stayed inside his body.
Since it did not hit bone or anything else that was capable of applying a lateral force of sufficient magnitude to signficantly change the bullet's direction, it must hhave continued in a straight line. The question is: what was on that line?

 The correct answer to that question depends on when the bullet struck JFK. If it struck at z223 or so it could not have struck JBC in the right armpit.  Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands, the trajectory goes too far to the left side of JBC. If it struck after z191 and before z202, as the evidence strongly indicates, other possibilities arise.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2018, 11:01:40 PM »
Since it did not hit bone or anything else that was capable of applying a lateral force of sufficient magnitude to signficantly change the bullet's direction, it must hhave continued in a straight line. The question is: what was on that line?

 The correct answer to that question depends on when the bullet struck JFK. If it struck at z223 or so it could not have struck JBC in the right armpit.  Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands, the trajectory goes too far to the left side of JBC. If it struck after z191 and before z202, as the evidence strongly indicates, other possibilities arise.

'Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands..'

Tell us how JFK would be able raise his hands up fast enough to intercept a supersonic bullet travelling back-to-front through his neck.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 11:14:54 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Allan Fritzke

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2018, 04:50:25 AM »
Those who refuse to explain where the bullet went after it hit President Kennedy's upper-back and came out his neck beneath the adam's apple are "implying" the missile stayed inside his body.
Certainly the only logical argument put forward by the WC was to have a magic bullet introduced to make 7 wounds in total.  This bullet needed to be found and came to be known as CE399 and introduced to support a lone gunman scenario.  It appears to be a FMJ (full metal jacket) that tumbled out of the abdomen and lost a few grains in JC's leg! His muscular leg rejected the rest onto the gurney where it was found later, although a few grains did somehow leave the bullet during its tumble and penetrated the leg - narrowly missing the femoral artery!
The car was never examined as a crime scene and a thorough examination top to bottom was never undertaken by photograph.   The SS moved it away, just like they did JFK's body very quickly.  I believe the neck wound (covered up conveniently by a tracheostomy) was in fact an entrance wound.   The bullet exited out the back side and into the car, possibly upholstery behind his back.  There were only 3 shots claimed to have occurred and the first one was a wild shot that hit somewhere on the road - no pictures of damage of it had been seen - only reports!  No one was sure if he missed the car by 2 inches or by 20 feet!
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 04:55:02 AM by Allan Fritzke »

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2018, 02:43:26 PM »
'Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands..'

Tell us how JFK would be able raise his hands up fast enough to intercept a supersonic bullet travelling back-to-front through his neck.
He did not have to raise his hands at all. His hands were already in front of his chest. Look at where his hands are when he emerges from behind the sign (frame z224). Then look at the path from his neck tie knot where the bullet emerged to JBC's right armpit. How does it miss his hands or forearms?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 03:06:13 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2018, 02:43:26 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2018, 05:09:47 PM »
He did not have to raise his hands at all. His hands were already in front of his chest. Look at where his hands are when he emerges from behind the sign (frame z224). Then look at the path from his neck tie knot where the bullet emerged to JBC's right armpit. How does it miss his hands or forearms?




(Myers)
 


The right hand appears to me to be over the car-rail in Z224, after-which it redirects towards the chin and body mid-line. Even if the raised right hand were at the President's mid-line in Z224, the trajectory of SBT shot fired from the SN would pass beneath the right hand.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2018, 10:29:38 PM »
 
He did not have to raise his hands at all. His hands were already in front of his chest. Look at where his hands are when he emerges from behind the sign (frame z224). Then look at the path from his neck tie knot where the bullet emerged to JBC's right armpit. How does it miss his hands or forearms?
If the SBT is true, and the experiments of Dr. Lattimer are valid, the coat movement at z224 indicates the bullet hit JFK and Connally at z222, one tenth of a second before.

Letís look at frames z222 through z225:

z222:


z223:


z224:


z225:


In z222, the most critical frame, it is impossible to see where either hand is.

In z223, it is impossible to see where the right hand is, but the left hand is clearly too low, at about the level of Connallyís armpit wound.

In z224, we see JFKís right hand, about lines up with the top of the leather seats.

In z225, JFKís right hand has dropped a couple of inches.

Only in z225, is either hand, the right hand, at about the right level to intercept the bullet. And even this hand must be to far to his right. Try it yourself. Rest your right elbow on a chair so the elbow is a few inches lower than the shoulder, as JFK was positioned. Wave to the crowds on the left, lower your hand, then raiser to wave to the crowds on the right. At no point should even the fingers of your right hand get directly in front of your throat. Your fingers should not be quite long enough to reach there.

Also, if we assume what was happening, it appears JFK was waving to the crowds while behind the sign. As he was emerging from behind the sign, we can see he was done waving for the moment and was lowering his right hand. This is why is hand is lower in z225 than z224. If we extrapolate to z222, his right hand must have been much further higher. Way to high.

No competent umpire would call that a strike. That was a ball, too low and too outside the reach of his hand.

But really, I have only one question for you Andrew.

The best way to determine the truth is with Orthographic or Multiview drawings. Ideally two drawings, at z222, one showing a view from above and the other a view from the side. An example of an orthographic drawing is shown below.



With orthographic drawings from both sides, one can compare, for example, the angle the bullet makes with the limousine, as seen from the top view, with maps of Dealey Plaza.

The following webpage shows a couple of orthographic drawings of the SBT.

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Single-bullet_theory

About halfway down the page is two Single Bullet Theory diagrams shown. The anti-SBT is shown about the Pro-SBT drawing. The Pro-SBT diagram properly shows JFK sitting well outboard of Connally, as we can tell from the Dave Powers film.

For some reason, CTers produce drawings that are obviously wildly off. They seem designed to fool people who donít know the angles of Dealey Plaza, and who donít check. For people that donít check the angles they seem very convincing. A bullet path from the sniperís nest seems to miss Connally by a lot. But more accurate drawings seem to indicate the bullet should hit near Connallyís armpit, both as seen from the top view and the side view.

Question:

Why donít those who believe the SBT is false show accurate Orthographic drawings, and use these drawings to convince newcomers that the SBT is false.


In my experience, CTers are most reluctant to provide a link on the internet to such a diagram. They just provide excuses as to why they donít need to do this. If the SBT was really false, such accurate orthographic diagrams would be power tools to show it is false.

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2018, 04:55:07 PM »

In z222, the most critical frame, it is impossible to see where either hand is.

In z223, it is impossible to see where the right hand is, but the left hand is clearly too low, at about the level of Connallyís armpit wound.

In z224, we see JFKís right hand, about lines up with the top of the leather seats.

In z225, JFKís right hand has dropped a couple of inches.

Only in z225, is either hand, the right hand, at about the right level to intercept the bullet. And even this hand must be to far to his right. Try it yourself. Rest your right elbow on a chair so the elbow is a few inches lower than the shoulder, as JFK was positioned. Wave to the crowds on the left, lower your hand, then raiser to wave to the crowds on the right. At no point should even the fingers of your right hand get directly in front of your throat. Your fingers should not be quite long enough to reach there.

Also, if we assume what was happening, it appears JFK was waving to the crowds while behind the sign. As he was emerging from behind the sign, we can see he was done waving for the moment and was lowering his right hand. This is why is hand is lower in z225 than z224. If we extrapolate to z222, his right hand must have been much further higher. Way to high.

No competent umpire would call that a strike. That was a ball, too low and too outside the reach of his hand.
All you have done is make case that his right hand may not have been directly on the path from his neck exit wound to JBC's right armpit.  We don't know exactly where it was in z222.   So it is a conjecture that at z222 it was not close to the position seen in z224. But that was not the point I was making. I was making the point that the trajectory still doesn't work. "Even if the tumbling bullet was able to somehow miss striking JFK's hands..", the trajectory to JBC's right armpit is left to right whereas the bullet path is right to left.

Quote
But really, I have only one question for you Andrew.

The best way to determine the truth is with Orthographic or Multiview drawings. Ideally two drawings, at z222, one showing a view from above and the other a view from the side. An example of an orthographic drawing is shown below.



With orthographic drawings from both sides, one can compare, for example, the angle the bullet makes with the limousine, as seen from the top view, with maps of Dealey Plaza.

The following webpage shows a couple of orthographic drawings of the SBT.

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Single-bullet_theory

About halfway down the page is two Single Bullet Theory diagrams shown. The anti-SBT is shown about the Pro-SBT drawing. The Pro-SBT diagram properly shows JFK sitting well outboard of Connally, as we can tell from the Dave Powers film.

For some reason, CTers produce drawings that are obviously wildly off. They seem designed to fool people who donít know the angles of Dealey Plaza, and who donít check. For people that donít check the angles they seem very convincing. A bullet path from the sniperís nest seems to miss Connally by a lot. But more accurate drawings seem to indicate the bullet should hit near Connallyís armpit, both as seen from the top view and the side view.

Question:

Why donít those who believe the SBT is false show accurate Orthographic drawings, and use these drawings to convince newcomers that the SBT is false.


In my experience, CTers are most reluctant to provide a link on the internet to such a diagram. They just provide excuses as to why they donít need to do this. If the SBT was really false, such accurate orthographic diagrams would be power tools to show it is false.
I have posted many times various projections from a 3D model that is a 1:1 scale model of the limo and Dealey Plaza.  I have also shown in various photos using sight lines and mapping those sightlines onto a scale model of the limo, that JBC is not inboard of JFK enough to put his right ampit to the left of JFK's neck exit wound, let alone the 4-5 inches required. JBC is in the middle of his seat.  That fact can be seen not only in the zfilm but also in photos on Houston as shown in this simple sightline analysis

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2018, 04:55:07 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2018, 05:48:00 PM »
 ;Dd
He did not have to raise his hands at all. His hands were already in front of his chest. Look at where his hands are when he emerges from behind the sign (frame z224). Then look at the path from his neck tie knot where the bullet emerged to JBC's right armpit. How does it miss his hands or forearms?

His hands, at his chest or not, wouldn't fists if he hadn't already been hit

Online Andrew Mason

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »
;Dd
His hands, at his chest or not, wouldn't fists if he hadn't already been hit
I agree that he is reacting to his neck wound in z224. He has already been hit in the back/neck. The question is: when did it happen?  The SBT is predicated on a physical reaction of his face arms and hands within 100 ms of being wounded.  All I am saying is that his reaction is also consistent with being hit at z195 or so and a more gradual reaction as he realizes something is wrong and which suddenly becomes acute as he tries to breathe (z226 and after). Since a human normally takes about 12-20 breaths per minute, it is understandable why there might be a second or more after the bullet strikes before JFK tries to take his next breath.

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Re: If a bullet passed straight through Connally, why not Kennedy?
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »


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